Quadcammer

Are we going to continue this? You can call it a ****ing banana transmission if it makes you sleep better at night.

I know what I meant, you now know what I meant, if you didn't before.

Just to be clear for the final time:

real sports cars do not have torque converters in their transmissions

Flash1

Isn't a 7 year old S500 a compromise car? They have made a lot of improvements in the last 7 years and they also make nicer S class cars then the 500. Just because you don't want a C63 doesn't make it a compromise.

Flash1

Who cares what mechanism the car uses to actually make the car change gears? That is one of the dumbest comments about sports cars I have read. If the car can accomplish the same thing (change gears) as well as another who cares. You could make stupid comments about what makes a real sports car all day with that logic.

Quadcammer

Absolutely not. The S500 was designed for one purpose...to be a luxurious full sized sedan. Yes, there are more luxurious full size sedans that have been built in the mean time. That doesn't change the level of luxury in my car.

Furthermore, while on average, an S600 is a nicer car than a 500, I don't believe so in my case.

My car has AWD, which is a luxury in and of itself. It also has the full leather interior found on s600s. Its got radar cruise control, a gazillion way adjustable heated and ventilated dynamic seats, rear air conditioning, voice control, power trunk, keyless go, parktronic, reclining head/vented rear seats, etc etc. With the exception of a heated steering wheel and 4 place rear seating, its fully loaded.

Does a 221 offer some benefits, sure. Does it serve as a more luxurious car? No. The 550, which is the only car with awd, cannot be spec'ed with a full leather interior, and aside from some better electronic suites, I don't care for the 550 interior.

Again though, a Ferrari F40 is a pure sports car. Its 20 years old, and newer and better sports cars have been built, but that does not make it a compromise.

A c63 has a powerful engine, but it is wrapped in a sedan body, it has an automatic transmission, and a bunch of electronic stuff that makes it heavy, resulting in a less sporting experience. It tries to be something of a luxury car, but it also rides hard, has a lot of engine and exhaust noise, and hard to the touch plastics. It has a ***** out engine, but the weight, and suspension are not up to sports car standards.

It tries to be everything to everybody, and I don't see a point in that.

Quadcammer

I do.

A true sports car's sole point is to make the connection with the car and the road as strong as possible. Becoming "one with the car" in the philosophical sense.

A torque converter not only decides when to shift for you, but it also does not always shift when you want it to. For instance, you approach a turn in 4th gear. You need second. In a manual transmission, you select 2nd at once. With a semi-automated non torque converter car, you hit the paddle twice, and you are nearly instantaneously in 2nd. With a torque converter, you either wait for the car to shift itself, which could take god knows how long, or even worse occur on corner exit when you are least expecting it, or be delayed if you use the "manu-matic" function.

That of course ignores the interaction of man and machine that occurs with a manual.

propain

The C63 beats many of what you consider "real sports cars" on the road course and in the 1/4 mile.

While not the most luxurious it does a fine job of doing it all. It looks classy, it sounds mean and it can back up its bark tearing the a$$ of many "REAL" 2 door sports cars on the road.

Your 2005 S500 on the other hand is outdated and was overpriced in 2005. It has nice luxury options but its nothing amazingly special at all and for its price completely not worth its cost for what it gives.

Cars like the S500 are not meant to be owned. You lease them and give it back in 3 years and get another one. The C63 is a car you keep.

SMP

Backpeddling? ..... since I had to explain to you the definition of automatic/automated, may I suggest something else?

You said you work at the NYSE. Right? Maybe you should pay more attention to actually making money for you and your clients, instead of hanging out here making people feel bad who worked hard to obtain either a used or a brand new C63.

BTW, a little fashion advice as well: Loose the tweed jackets ..... if you ever want to get laid. Speaking of getting laid, it might put you in a better mood

propain

For someone who works on the NYSE he sure does have some interesting post time stamps. I know many people who work on the exchange and they sure aren't making posts on MBW during trading hours.

Flash1

I think the S500 is a fine car but using your logic it would be a compromise. Just because the C63 isn't something you would buy doesn't make it a compromise. Anyone could apply your logic to any car and call it a compromise car.

Flash1

Again, who cares. If someone put that transmission in a Taurus it would be a "True" sports car. Let me guess, it is much more than a transmission.

IAA-C63

Since this crazy thread won't fizzle, what the heck, I'll stay involved.

First of all, the S500 is a fine luxury car. No point denying that.

As far as the C63, yes, it's a compromise car. Neither pure sports car nor pure luxury car, and I've driven plenty of examples of each. But would you concede that if someone needs or wants a sedan, the C63 is among the sportiest options available?

Quadcammer

An austin healy 3000 is a real sports car. A minivan could beat it on the track. Track figures are not the defining factor of what or what is not a sports car.

You are free to your opinion on my car. It doesn't bother me. It does everything I need it to and more, and was one of the most luxurious cars available for sale when it was produced.

MBs are not cars you keep, period. There will always be something better along the pike.

There is no backpedaling at all. I was clearly referring to torque converter automatics, but you took it another way. I believed I was clear enough, many people understood me, and you didn't. Thats fine.

Further, perhaps you don't quite understand what the nyse is. The exchange is platform for trading. I'm not a specialist or floor broker, neither of which are exchange employees anyway.

And lastly, I will not be taking any fashion advice from you. Thanks however.

Works for the NYSE, and works on the trading floor for a specialist or floor broker are two separate things. Perhaps that might make clear why I'm able to post during trading hours.

Of course not. A transmission is just part of the sports car package.

I would put the M3 ahead of it. Yes, its gotten far more porky than the original E30, and the 95 E36, which I loved. However, I feel it puts a finer point on the sports car feel to me. I don't love the v8, it lacks torque.

Take the C63 motor, pair it with a manual transmission, and stick it in the M3 chassis, and I'd think it was the best compromise car out there for a sporty sedan.

IAA-C63

I do see the M3 as the main rival to the C63, though I still put the C63 a little ahead of the M3 (which is why I got one). Though I may take heat for saying so, I agree with your thoughts on what would make the best sporty sedan.

Flash1

How is it a compromise? The C63 isn't meant to be a Ferrari. It is a sports sedan. It does what it is intended to do. It is the same as saying the S500 is a compromise because it isn't a Bentley.

IAA-C63

It's a comprise between sedan practicality/comfort versus sports performance. The S class is like a limo compared to the C63. And my 911 kicks the C63's butt as a sports car, despite the C63 having more torque and power.

Nothing inherently wrong with compromises though. Sometimes they make sense, or are necessary.

Quadcammer

Its [C63] a compromise by design, and it achieves it's target.

The S500 has only one purpose...to make its occupants as comfortable as possible. The car (500 anyway) is slow, handles like dog****, and isn't particularly fun to drive. Obviously its not a bentley or a maybach, but it gives me the most luxury in its price range.

The C63 tries to be practical, sporty, comfortable, good handling, luxurious, good sounding, etc. the compromise is inherent in its design.

Flash1

What you are saying is the S500 isn't a compromise because it has what you want. A 7 year old entry level S500 would be considered a compromise car using the same logic you assign to any car that doesn't fit your definition. It isn't class leading in any way. There are far better and nicer luxury cars on the market. Better fit and finish, engines, transmissions, performance, features etc. But you don't think you compromised because you got what you wanted. The same goes for everyone else.

Flash1

There are far nicer cars that accomplish the same purposes as the S500. The C63 is practical, comfortable, has a great sound, good handling and decent amount of luxury. Your right that is what it was designed for. It isn't a race car. It is a sports sedan.

SMP

Like I said, a BACKPEDDLE not to be confused with backpedaling ..... for definition, look up "urban dictionary": A pathetic attempt to save your butt from a stupid statement made earlier

Where do you mention anything about a TORQUE CONVERTER in your original post that I replied to?

Keep on digging that hole deeper and deeper and deeper ..... .... let's face it, you're not the smartest guy, just a guy with a BIG mouth on the keyboard. My guess, you're someones b!tch at the NYSE, hence your negative attitude.

Djovovic63

I feel sorry for you. You will most likely always be miserable in your life... And I have to mention, that I think you are frustrated big time.... When did you get laid last time?

I also wonder, is the porsche already considered antique?

CLS550

LOL @ the s500 guy saying his car is better than a C63?

Its rare to see that much ignorance, even on the net.

The s500 is obv a compromise with the main reason being its almost a decade behind in technology.

bigben320e

The thread started off as strange, then fun, and now...sad.

There is nothing wrong with saying some cars are compromise cars by design, sure there are plenty of them now. Nothing wrong with defining what a sports car is either, but this pi$$ing contest needs to end.

Perhaps we all need to go get laid.

IAA-C63

Agreed. People are playing with words now, going in circles trying to redefine definitions. Some cars focus on one function (luxury, performance, cargo space, etc.), and other cars find a balance ("compromise") between functions. Nothing wrong with either, they're just different, and neither is inherently better.

Getting back to the OP's question, yes, the C63 is easily worth $70K and is a great choice if a sports sedan is what's desired.

Quadcammer

sigh. I give up trying to explain this to you. A car that is singular in purpose=not a compromise. I bring you back to the F40.

I specifically said hydraulically actuated in my first post. How much more obvious would you like me to be. Nevertheless, this is a semantics argument, and a dumb one at that.

The rest I'll let you work up with your imagination to whatever you wish.

I'm perfectly happy actually. I get a kick out of people who get so upset when someone isn't in love with their vehicle. its not an extension of you chief, its just a piece of metal.

Is a 15 year old porsche an antique? I'm not sure...my state doesn't think so, but thats your call.

Another fellow with poor reading skills. Please, using quotes, show me where I said that an S500 is better than a C63. They are completely different kinds of cars that are not comparable.

You seem to share flash's lack of understanding of a compromise.

A Shelby 429 cobra has technology that is 40 years behind in technology. Does that make it a compromise?

propain

Ahh, so because it has a manual gearbox its a sports car.

There is always something better yet you own a 15 year old 993 (I do also) and a 7 year old MB. Why did you keep them? The GT2 or GT3 is a much better. The current S550 is leaps above your 2005 in luxury.

So the SL is a car you dont keep? The SLS? Very silly arguement. There is nothing special at all about the S500 or S550. There is no reason to keep them at all. You lease and trade them back in and get another one.

The C63 will be an historic car. Limited production and the biggest NA engine in a MB. If and when they change over to the 5.5 and dump the 6.2l it will gain even more value.