Is C63 Really Worth $70k?
08-23-2011, 04:15 PM
#201
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For reference the CLK BS (A sports car in my opinion still with a slush box) did it in 8:02.
8:02Mercedes CLK 63 AMG - Black Series
08-23-2011, 04:17 PM
#202
All good questions. The first and most important, standard HP is 451 for a C63. That's what the magazines test the car with. The playing field is also leveled, as every car is driven buy either a professional or very experienced driver.
Now, if you throw a tune, headers and an exhaust which yield close to 600 HP at the crank on a C63, of course it's going to walk on most other cars, especially on long tracks with lots of straights.
Now, if you throw a tune, headers and an exhaust which yield close to 600 HP at the crank on a C63, of course it's going to walk on most other cars, especially on long tracks with lots of straights.
I see what you're saying about the effect of increased power with the C63. Also, dropping some weight probably is great for road course.
08-23-2011, 04:19 PM
#203
How much does the CLK 63 BS weigh? That's a great time. It beats the M3 by a few seconds, which is nice.
08-23-2011, 04:26 PM
#204
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Also keep in mind, the AMG Development package may not have been on the C63 in that time and the LSD is huge for the track, as well as the higher engine output and slightly revised suspension and brakes. I'd expect all that to reduce the time by at least 2-3 seconds.
08-23-2011, 04:30 PM
#205
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I have a question about lap times for the C63. This is a general question, btw. It seems like the posted times for different road courses that I've seen in auto mags shows the C63 as being on the slower end of available lap times (in comparison to other performance cars), definitely much slower than P-cars, GT-R's and definitely M3's; why do you think that is so?
I'm sure your experience with the car enables you to beat a lot of lesser drivers. I'm always surprised that the C63 doesn't produce quicker times. Also, certain cars that I've seen that definitely have less power than the C63 show higher peak mph during the laps. This confuses me a bit because I consider the C63 to have great breaks (not sure how fade resistant they are, though), so I was thinking perhaps you can break relatively late with the C63 and build up good speed on long straights.
Any thoughts? I know my question is very general and I'm sure there are many factors at play.
I'm sure your experience with the car enables you to beat a lot of lesser drivers. I'm always surprised that the C63 doesn't produce quicker times. Also, certain cars that I've seen that definitely have less power than the C63 show higher peak mph during the laps. This confuses me a bit because I consider the C63 to have great breaks (not sure how fade resistant they are, though), so I was thinking perhaps you can break relatively late with the C63 and build up good speed on long straights.
Any thoughts? I know my question is very general and I'm sure there are many factors at play.
08-23-2011, 04:33 PM
#206
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2013 Chevy 427 Torch Red
Even as far as stock packages being tested. That M3 was on Pilot Cups which are a factory option and good for at least 5 seconds on the ring.
08-23-2011, 04:36 PM
#207
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08-23-2011, 04:41 PM
#208
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Maybe some of our resident experts' lexical knowledge can further enlighten me of the differences.
08-23-2011, 04:44 PM
#209
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08-23-2011, 04:45 PM
#210
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some will argue that a sports car has to be two doors. so the E92 M3 is a sports car, while the E90 M3 is not.
some will argue that the last true sports cars offered by Porsche died with the 993.
make any sense? no. everyone is their own lexicographer! this is the Internets!
08-23-2011, 04:46 PM
#211
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http://www.caranddriver.com/features...3a05.4_page_13
08-23-2011, 04:48 PM
#212
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Read the following, they were an available option and most of the time lists on the internet show an R next to the M3 8:05 for R compounds.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...3a05.4_page_13
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...3a05.4_page_13
well, we all know that the weak spot of the OEM C63 are the damn tires and narrow widths... this further elucidates it.
08-23-2011, 04:48 PM
#213
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Thanks!
Also keep in mind, the AMG Development package may not have been on the C63 in that time and the LSD is huge for the track, as well as the higher engine output and slightly revised suspension and brakes. I'd expect all that to reduce the time by at least 2-3 seconds.
Also keep in mind, the AMG Development package may not have been on the C63 in that time and the LSD is huge for the track, as well as the higher engine output and slightly revised suspension and brakes. I'd expect all that to reduce the time by at least 2-3 seconds.
08-23-2011, 04:57 PM
#214
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Absolutely, MB choice of tires and sizes baffles everyone. Buying decisions are made everyday based on those magazine comparisons and MB simply doesn't seem to care.
08-23-2011, 05:02 PM
#215
Thanks!
Also keep in mind, the AMG Development package may not have been on the C63 in that time and the LSD is huge for the track, as well as the higher engine output and slightly revised suspension and brakes. I'd expect all that to reduce the time by at least 2-3 seconds.
Also keep in mind, the AMG Development package may not have been on the C63 in that time and the LSD is huge for the track, as well as the higher engine output and slightly revised suspension and brakes. I'd expect all that to reduce the time by at least 2-3 seconds.
True, the extra power of the P31 package would be helpful, but I don't believe there were any suspension changes, excluding the changes available on the 2012 models.
Would be good to see the P31 tested on that track.
08-23-2011, 05:04 PM
#216
08-23-2011, 05:09 PM
#217
And as I've read you've tested Hankook R compounds on the C63, so I guess the stock C63 without P31 but fitted with R-componds would be capable of maybe 8:07-8:10. That would be pretty nice.
I wonder if the Ring causes C63's to go into limp mode compared to say a CLK 63 BS that wouldn't have that problem.
08-23-2011, 05:43 PM
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You can't possibly believe a sedan is not a car. This only gets better.
08-23-2011, 05:58 PM
#219
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08-23-2011, 06:17 PM
#220
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CLK BS ran 7:45 and 7:56.
08-23-2011, 06:22 PM
#221
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You've seen the same GTR run 7:25 to 7:50 just based on R-Compound tires.
Guess what tires the M3 ran?
Don't you love how the SL55 from 2002 ran 8:11? Secret info here the S and CL don't handle too far behind.
Guess what tires the M3 ran?
Don't you love how the SL55 from 2002 ran 8:11? Secret info here the S and CL don't handle too far behind.
08-23-2011, 06:23 PM
#222
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'11 C63, '22 GLS 63, Porsches, M3, M4
I think you guys are getting a little sensitive about criticism of the C63. You can define "sports car" to include the C63 if it makes you feel better, but I don't think most people would put it in that category.
Pure sports cars like Ferraris and Lambos are all light, have a low CG, relatively wide track, and high power/weight ratio. For top performance, these characteristics are needed because there's no getting around the laws of physics, not even with the best engineering wizardry. And no sedan has these characteristics -- not the C63, and not the M3 or Panamera either.
But the C63 is still a blast, especially when it comes to sports sedans.
Pure sports cars like Ferraris and Lambos are all light, have a low CG, relatively wide track, and high power/weight ratio. For top performance, these characteristics are needed because there's no getting around the laws of physics, not even with the best engineering wizardry. And no sedan has these characteristics -- not the C63, and not the M3 or Panamera either.
But the C63 is still a blast, especially when it comes to sports sedans.
08-23-2011, 06:29 PM
#223
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That is the reason for the dramatic change, not R-comps.
the 7:24.22 time was done with STOCK Dunlops on semi-damp conditions.
08-23-2011, 07:29 PM
#224
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I think you guys are getting a little sensitive about criticism of the C63. You can define "sports car" to include the C63 if it makes you feel better, but I don't think most people would put it in that category.
Pure sports cars like Ferraris and Lambos are all light, have a low CG, relatively wide track, and high power/weight ratio. For top performance, these characteristics are needed because there's no getting around the laws of physics, not even with the best engineering wizardry. And no sedan has these characteristics -- not the C63, and not the M3 or Panamera either.
But the C63 is still a blast, especially when it comes to sports sedans.
Pure sports cars like Ferraris and Lambos are all light, have a low CG, relatively wide track, and high power/weight ratio. For top performance, these characteristics are needed because there's no getting around the laws of physics, not even with the best engineering wizardry. And no sedan has these characteristics -- not the C63, and not the M3 or Panamera either.
But the C63 is still a blast, especially when it comes to sports sedans.
08-23-2011, 07:37 PM
#225
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I think you guys are getting a little sensitive about criticism of the C63. You can define "sports car" to include the C63 if it makes you feel better, but I don't think most people would put it in that category.
Pure sports cars like Ferraris and Lambos are all light, have a low CG, relatively wide track, and high power/weight ratio. For top performance, these characteristics are needed because there's no getting around the laws of physics, not even with the best engineering wizardry. And no sedan has these characteristics -- not the C63, and not the M3 or Panamera either.
But the C63 is still a blast, especially when it comes to sports sedans.
Pure sports cars like Ferraris and Lambos are all light, have a low CG, relatively wide track, and high power/weight ratio. For top performance, these characteristics are needed because there's no getting around the laws of physics, not even with the best engineering wizardry. And no sedan has these characteristics -- not the C63, and not the M3 or Panamera either.
But the C63 is still a blast, especially when it comes to sports sedans.
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h - Alpina B6 S, 530 PS/1815 kg (sport auto 05/08) www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2tID=157259
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h - Aston Martin V8 Vantage (Top Gear 02/05)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h - Chrysler Viper GTS, 411 PS/1567 kg (sport auto 10/97)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h - Donkervoort D8 180R, 210 PS/650 kg (sport auto 03/01)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h - KTM X-Bow, 240 PS/858 kg (sport auto 04/10)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h - Mercedes E 63 AMG, 525 PS/1889 kg (sport auto 03/10)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h - Porsche Boxster S, 310 PS/??? kg, www.sueddeutsche.de/automobil/372/449102/text/11/
8:10.75 151.27 km/h - Subaru Impreza WRX STi Version III sedan (1996), www.subaru.com.hk/pdf/SNW0404.pdf
8:11 --- 151,27 km/h - Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX (Best Motoring video 14)
8:11* -- 151,27 km/h - Porsche Cayman S, 295 PS/1340 kg, test driver Walter Roehrl (*mfr.) (sport auto 07/05)
8:11.1 - 151,27 km/h - Lamborghini Gallardo Sypder E-gear (AutoBild sportscars 11/07)
8:12 --- 150.73 km/h - Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG, 476 PS/1651 kg (sport auto 04/02)
8:12 --- 150.73 km/h - Porsche 993 Turbo (sport auto 03/97)
8:12 --- 150.73 km/h - Porsche 993 Turbo works tuning (sport auto 06/97)
8:12.62 - 150.61 km/h - Honda CBR 1000 RR Fireblade, 172 PS/205 kg, Helmmut Daehne, previous record holder www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Testberichte-Duell-am-Ring_422642.html
8:12.8 - 150.43 km/h - Porsche 997 Turbo convertible (AutoBild sportscars11/08)
8:13* -- 150.43 km/h - Artega GT, 300 PS/1272 kg (sport auto 12/10) *special sports suspension
8:13 --- 150.43 km/h - Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 385 PS/1636 kg, Bridgestone Potenza RE 50 (sport auto 10/05)
8:13 --- 150.43 km/h - BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg (sport auto 12/04)
8:13 --- 150.43 km/h - Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 hp (sport auto, 10/04)
8:13 --- 150.43 km/h - Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS/1324 kg (sport auto 05/99)
8:13 --- 150.43 km/h - Mercedes C63 AMG, 457 PS/1761 (sport auto, 02/09)
8:14 --- 150.12 km/h - Alpina B3 Biturbo Coupe, 360 PS/1634 kg (sport auto 12/08)
8:14 --- 150.12 km/h - Mercedes SLK 55 AMG Black Series, 400 PS/1506 kg (sport auto 08/07) www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=0&fID=2&tID=134706
8:14 --- 150.12 km/h - Mercedes SL 65 AMG, 612 PS/2049 kg (sport auto 01/05)
8:14 --- 150.12 km/h - Steinmetz Opel Astra OPC, 285 PS/1418 kg (sport auto Tuning 07)
8:14.98 149.82 km/h - Mitsubishi Carisma Evo VIII GSR MR 8 (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:15 --- 149.82 km/h - BMW 1-series M Coupé, 340 PS/1514 kg (sport auto 07/11)
8:15 --- 149.82 km/h - BMW Z4 M Roadster, 343 PS/1485 kg,
8:15 --- 149.82 km/h - Alpina Roadster S, 300 PS/1416 kg (sport auto 6/05),
8:15 --- 149.82 km/h - Corvette C6, 404 PS/1491 kg (sport auto 08/05)
8:15* -- 149.82 km/h - Holden GTS (00), *estimated
8:15 --- 149.82 km/h - Porsche 997 Carrera 2, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:15 --- 149.82 km/h - Ruf 911 CTR II, 520 PS www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/228511/
