Why WAS THE FLUID MOTOR UNION THREAD CLOSED.
10-17-2011, 07:30 PM
#76
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hey,
I have been reading this forum for a while now, as I’m interested in purchasing a C63. I thought I would look into reliability issues before I took the plunge. For this reason I have not had a reason to sign up, but after reading this thread I thought it would be a good idea for me to sign up, chime in, perhaps offer some advise and point a few things out to the OP.
Bnzuovr, firstly I would like to say I’m sorry to hear about the troubles you have had with your motor. I read your original thread from the link above and it seems that you are perhaps thinking the O2 sensor mix up may have caused damage to your engine. I was quite shocked to see that there was no one either qualified or knowledgeable that chimed in and stated the obvious. O2 sensors on nearly all factory vehicles are only used to regulate a Lambda 1, which is an air fuel ratio of 14.7 (stoichiometric). This is purely for emissions purposes. O2 sensors on factory vehicles are mostly used to control fuel trims at idle and part throttle driving. This is known as “Closed Loop” control. Once the vehicle is at full throttle and high load, it will then switch to “Open Loop,” which in simple terms means the engine management control unit no longer uses O2 sensor signals to control fuel.
So, the first point I am trying to make is that engines will very rarely go wrong at part throttle driving. Damage is almost always likely to happen in full throttle, high load situations. At that point, the O2 sensors may as well not be there, because they play no part in fuel control. So you can most definitely cross this one off your list of potential culprits.
I was trying to find a very good write up by Toyota that I once found on the web, but cannot seem to find it. However, I did find a site that is talking about a Motronic control unit found on a Porsche. You will clearly see that these also do not use lambda values to correct fuel at WOT: www.motronic.ws/lambda.htm
I can find some more if you like. But generally, if you google open loop/closed loop control, you will quickly see for yourself.
Now I am no expert, I certainly do not know exactly what went wrong, but let’s just say that hypothetically it was a bad “tune” (I prefer Engine Calibration) according to this post: https://mbworld.org/forums/4409695-post10.html You have said that the tuning was NOT done by Fluid Motor Union but by another tuner. So if this is the case, and let’s again say it was a bad calibration, then how are they to be blamed if they did not do the tuning?
Please forgive me if it seems that I am siding with one party, I am only telling you how I see it.
Lastly, I have always wondered why people are very surprised when a engine fails due to tuning and pushing the vehicle further than the manufacturers intended. Like dude come on? Especially when the engine is old, in an old car, most likely with a couple of owners previous to your self. Who’s to know what kind of life the engine has had, what kind of driving it has done and what care was taken… Engines can go bad in stock form, I should know as I see them all the time at my work. And some of these engines go bad with no explanation as to why?
Anyhow, I hope you have better luck with the new motor…
I have been reading this forum for a while now, as I’m interested in purchasing a C63. I thought I would look into reliability issues before I took the plunge. For this reason I have not had a reason to sign up, but after reading this thread I thought it would be a good idea for me to sign up, chime in, perhaps offer some advise and point a few things out to the OP.
Bnzuovr, firstly I would like to say I’m sorry to hear about the troubles you have had with your motor. I read your original thread from the link above and it seems that you are perhaps thinking the O2 sensor mix up may have caused damage to your engine. I was quite shocked to see that there was no one either qualified or knowledgeable that chimed in and stated the obvious. O2 sensors on nearly all factory vehicles are only used to regulate a Lambda 1, which is an air fuel ratio of 14.7 (stoichiometric). This is purely for emissions purposes. O2 sensors on factory vehicles are mostly used to control fuel trims at idle and part throttle driving. This is known as “Closed Loop” control. Once the vehicle is at full throttle and high load, it will then switch to “Open Loop,” which in simple terms means the engine management control unit no longer uses O2 sensor signals to control fuel.
So, the first point I am trying to make is that engines will very rarely go wrong at part throttle driving. Damage is almost always likely to happen in full throttle, high load situations. At that point, the O2 sensors may as well not be there, because they play no part in fuel control. So you can most definitely cross this one off your list of potential culprits.
I was trying to find a very good write up by Toyota that I once found on the web, but cannot seem to find it. However, I did find a site that is talking about a Motronic control unit found on a Porsche. You will clearly see that these also do not use lambda values to correct fuel at WOT: www.motronic.ws/lambda.htm
I can find some more if you like. But generally, if you google open loop/closed loop control, you will quickly see for yourself.
Now I am no expert, I certainly do not know exactly what went wrong, but let’s just say that hypothetically it was a bad “tune” (I prefer Engine Calibration) according to this post: https://mbworld.org/forums/4409695-post10.html You have said that the tuning was NOT done by Fluid Motor Union but by another tuner. So if this is the case, and let’s again say it was a bad calibration, then how are they to be blamed if they did not do the tuning?
Please forgive me if it seems that I am siding with one party, I am only telling you how I see it.
Lastly, I have always wondered why people are very surprised when a engine fails due to tuning and pushing the vehicle further than the manufacturers intended. Like dude come on? Especially when the engine is old, in an old car, most likely with a couple of owners previous to your self. Who’s to know what kind of life the engine has had, what kind of driving it has done and what care was taken… Engines can go bad in stock form, I should know as I see them all the time at my work. And some of these engines go bad with no explanation as to why?
Anyhow, I hope you have better luck with the new motor…
10-17-2011, 08:17 PM
#77
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12 M156 C204
i wonder why fmu didn't use their own account to make that reply.
if you have consulted a medical doctor, he told you that you were not sick and gave you some vitamins. it turned out those pills were not proper vitamins because something went wrong with the custom formula. you have taken them and you had a coma and almost died. however, every person is meant to become dead eventually, so that doctor is not responsible for everything and he can proudly comment that he has the best vitamins in the world.
when you see the doctor, he will tell you: "see you are not dead, i am trying to make you happy and nothing is wrong with me because i know everything." what will you do then?
if you have consulted a medical doctor, he told you that you were not sick and gave you some vitamins. it turned out those pills were not proper vitamins because something went wrong with the custom formula. you have taken them and you had a coma and almost died. however, every person is meant to become dead eventually, so that doctor is not responsible for everything and he can proudly comment that he has the best vitamins in the world.
when you see the doctor, he will tell you: "see you are not dead, i am trying to make you happy and nothing is wrong with me because i know everything." what will you do then?
10-17-2011, 10:08 PM
#78
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Can't refute the pics. Proof is in the puddin! Sorry that happend to you bro and sorry I doubted this thread at first. FMU is looking worse and worse! Brutal month for them.
10-18-2011, 01:38 AM
#79
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i wonder why fmu didn't use their own account to make that reply.
good question lol
if you have consulted a medical doctor, he told you that you were not sick and gave you some vitamins. it turned out those pills were not proper vitamins because something went wrong with the custom formula. you have taken them and you had a coma and almost died. however, every person is meant to become dead eventually, so that doctor is not responsible for everything and he can proudly comment that he has the best vitamins in the world.
when you see the doctor, he will tell you: "see you are not dead, i am trying to make you happy and nothing is wrong with me because i know everything." what will you do then?
good question lolif you have consulted a medical doctor, he told you that you were not sick and gave you some vitamins. it turned out those pills were not proper vitamins because something went wrong with the custom formula. you have taken them and you had a coma and almost died. however, every person is meant to become dead eventually, so that doctor is not responsible for everything and he can proudly comment that he has the best vitamins in the world.
when you see the doctor, he will tell you: "see you are not dead, i am trying to make you happy and nothing is wrong with me because i know everything." what will you do then?
No worrys brother. Just glad you guys see my side of it.
10-18-2011, 03:40 AM
#80
MBWorld Fanatic!
Wonder how you all feel for the first OP that you all burned to a steak...
but its ok, all the name calling, insults and baseless defending or fanboyism is fine...
after all... you all say you want to hear the customers experience...then you wonder why some times people do not post....you are just hurting your selves in the long run as a community
To OP all the best and hope you get your matters resolved
but its ok, all the name calling, insults and baseless defending or fanboyism is fine...
after all... you all say you want to hear the customers experience...then you wonder why some times people do not post....you are just hurting your selves in the long run as a community
To OP all the best and hope you get your matters resolved
10-18-2011, 03:51 AM
#81
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AMG
What will answer Jrcart @ Fanboy to these pictures ? 
Sure , OP is a liar.....
At least we have proof this time , thanks to OP.
Oh wait , OP must be a fake username from MHP , yes that should be it !! It can't be anything else !!
Bad times for FMU
Sure , OP is a liar.....
At least we have proof this time , thanks to OP.
Oh wait , OP must be a fake username from MHP , yes that should be it !! It can't be anything else !!
Bad times for FMU
Last edited by Kaiba; 10-18-2011 at 04:20 AM.
10-18-2011, 08:12 AM
#83
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Bnzuovr, firstly I would like to say I’m sorry to hear about the troubles you have had with your motor. I read your original thread from the link above and it seems that you are perhaps thinking the O2 sensor mix up may have caused damage to your engine. I was quite shocked to see that there was no one either qualified or knowledgeable that chimed in and stated the obvious. O2 sensors on nearly all factory vehicles are only used to regulate a Lambda 1, which is an air fuel ratio of 14.7 (stoichiometric). This is purely for emissions purposes. O2 sensors on factory vehicles are mostly used to control fuel trims at idle and part throttle driving. This is known as “Closed Loop” control. Once the vehicle is at full throttle and high load, it will then switch to “Open Loop,” which in simple terms means the engine management control unit no longer uses O2 sensor signals to control fuel.
So, the first point I am trying to make is that engines will very rarely go wrong at part throttle driving. Damage is almost always likely to happen in full throttle, high load situations. At that point, the O2 sensors may as well not be there, because they play no part in fuel control. So you can most definitely cross this one off your list of potential culprits.
So, the first point I am trying to make is that engines will very rarely go wrong at part throttle driving. Damage is almost always likely to happen in full throttle, high load situations. At that point, the O2 sensors may as well not be there, because they play no part in fuel control. So you can most definitely cross this one off your list of potential culprits.
A malfunctioning O2 sensor can literally shut the motor down, they have a much greater impact than just being the emisions police. I had 3 weeks of issues just due to one sensor with irratic voltage. The car ran fine at idle but as soon as you stepped on the gas the ecu began shutting down the cylinders on that bank due to perceived misfires. The plugs on that side were fouled beyond recovery. I would imagine that playing musical chairs with all four sensors would send the ecu for a loop that very well could lead to detonation damage or a burned piston.
10-18-2011, 08:19 AM
#85
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C63 AMG
Wonder how you all feel for the first OP that you all burned to a steak...
but its ok, all the name calling, insults and baseless defending or fanboyism is fine...
after all... you all say you want to hear the customers experience...then you wonder why some times people do not post....you are just hurting your selves in the long run as a community
To OP all the best and hope you get your matters resolved
but its ok, all the name calling, insults and baseless defending or fanboyism is fine...
after all... you all say you want to hear the customers experience...then you wonder why some times people do not post....you are just hurting your selves in the long run as a community
To OP all the best and hope you get your matters resolved
You know how I feel? This moron (the OP) allows this thread to continue for how many pages of ranting before he provides proof? He knew he was baiting everybody along. The other FMU thread was up for how many days with not a single word from him? So he creates this and then wants to pawn himself as a victim of verbal abuse? No sympathy from me. He knew what he was doing. Besides from whats been said already he posted these issues a while back on another thread. Next..
Last edited by melmanc55; 10-18-2011 at 08:30 AM.
10-18-2011, 08:28 AM
#86
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hey,
I have been reading this forum for a while now, as I’m interested in purchasing a C63. I thought I would look into reliability issues before I took the plunge. For this reason I have not had a reason to sign up, but after reading this thread I thought it would be a good idea for me to sign up, chime in, perhaps offer some advise and point a few things out to the OP.
Bnzuovr, firstly I would like to say I’m sorry to hear about the troubles you have had with your motor. I read your original thread from the link above and it seems that you are perhaps thinking the O2 sensor mix up may have caused damage to your engine. I was quite shocked to see that there was no one either qualified or knowledgeable that chimed in and stated the obvious. O2 sensors on nearly all factory vehicles are only used to regulate a Lambda 1, which is an air fuel ratio of 14.7 (stoichiometric). This is purely for emissions purposes. O2 sensors on factory vehicles are mostly used to control fuel trims at idle and part throttle driving. This is known as “Closed Loop” control. Once the vehicle is at full throttle and high load, it will then switch to “Open Loop,” which in simple terms means the engine management control unit no longer uses O2 sensor signals to control fuel.
So, the first point I am trying to make is that engines will very rarely go wrong at part throttle driving. Damage is almost always likely to happen in full throttle, high load situations. At that point, the O2 sensors may as well not be there, because they play no part in fuel control. So you can most definitely cross this one off your list of potential culprits.
I was trying to find a very good write up by Toyota that I once found on the web, but cannot seem to find it. However, I did find a site that is talking about a Motronic control unit found on a Porsche. You will clearly see that these also do not use lambda values to correct fuel at WOT: www.motronic.ws/lambda.htm
I can find some more if you like. But generally, if you google open loop/closed loop control, you will quickly see for yourself.
Now I am no expert, I certainly do not know exactly what went wrong, but let’s just say that hypothetically it was a bad “tune” (I prefer Engine Calibration) according to this post: https://mbworld.org/forums/4409695-post10.html You have said that the tuning was NOT done by Fluid Motor Union but by another tuner. So if this is the case, and let’s again say it was a bad calibration, then how are they to be blamed if they did not do the tuning?
Please forgive me if it seems that I am siding with one party, I am only telling you how I see it.
Lastly, I have always wondered why people are very surprised when a engine fails due to tuning and pushing the vehicle further than the manufacturers intended. Like dude come on? Especially when the engine is old, in an old car, most likely with a couple of owners previous to your self. Who’s to know what kind of life the engine has had, what kind of driving it has done and what care was taken… Engines can go bad in stock form, I should know as I see them all the time at my work. And some of these engines go bad with no explanation as to why?
Anyhow, I hope you have better luck with the new motor…
I have been reading this forum for a while now, as I’m interested in purchasing a C63. I thought I would look into reliability issues before I took the plunge. For this reason I have not had a reason to sign up, but after reading this thread I thought it would be a good idea for me to sign up, chime in, perhaps offer some advise and point a few things out to the OP.
Bnzuovr, firstly I would like to say I’m sorry to hear about the troubles you have had with your motor. I read your original thread from the link above and it seems that you are perhaps thinking the O2 sensor mix up may have caused damage to your engine. I was quite shocked to see that there was no one either qualified or knowledgeable that chimed in and stated the obvious. O2 sensors on nearly all factory vehicles are only used to regulate a Lambda 1, which is an air fuel ratio of 14.7 (stoichiometric). This is purely for emissions purposes. O2 sensors on factory vehicles are mostly used to control fuel trims at idle and part throttle driving. This is known as “Closed Loop” control. Once the vehicle is at full throttle and high load, it will then switch to “Open Loop,” which in simple terms means the engine management control unit no longer uses O2 sensor signals to control fuel.
So, the first point I am trying to make is that engines will very rarely go wrong at part throttle driving. Damage is almost always likely to happen in full throttle, high load situations. At that point, the O2 sensors may as well not be there, because they play no part in fuel control. So you can most definitely cross this one off your list of potential culprits.
I was trying to find a very good write up by Toyota that I once found on the web, but cannot seem to find it. However, I did find a site that is talking about a Motronic control unit found on a Porsche. You will clearly see that these also do not use lambda values to correct fuel at WOT: www.motronic.ws/lambda.htm
I can find some more if you like. But generally, if you google open loop/closed loop control, you will quickly see for yourself.
Now I am no expert, I certainly do not know exactly what went wrong, but let’s just say that hypothetically it was a bad “tune” (I prefer Engine Calibration) according to this post: https://mbworld.org/forums/4409695-post10.html You have said that the tuning was NOT done by Fluid Motor Union but by another tuner. So if this is the case, and let’s again say it was a bad calibration, then how are they to be blamed if they did not do the tuning?
Please forgive me if it seems that I am siding with one party, I am only telling you how I see it.
Lastly, I have always wondered why people are very surprised when a engine fails due to tuning and pushing the vehicle further than the manufacturers intended. Like dude come on? Especially when the engine is old, in an old car, most likely with a couple of owners previous to your self. Who’s to know what kind of life the engine has had, what kind of driving it has done and what care was taken… Engines can go bad in stock form, I should know as I see them all the time at my work. And some of these engines go bad with no explanation as to why?
Anyhow, I hope you have better luck with the new motor…
10-18-2011, 09:26 AM
#87
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2004 W211 E55K, GL550
Wonder how you all feel for the first OP that you all burned to a steak...
but its ok, all the name calling, insults and baseless defending or fanboyism is fine...
after all... you all say you want to hear the customers experience...then you wonder why some times people do not post....you are just hurting your selves in the long run as a community
To OP all the best and hope you get your matters resolved
but its ok, all the name calling, insults and baseless defending or fanboyism is fine...
after all... you all say you want to hear the customers experience...then you wonder why some times people do not post....you are just hurting your selves in the long run as a community
To OP all the best and hope you get your matters resolved
Well said my friend i was wondering the same thing we all post are experiance weather good or bad to help the mercedes community as well as any car nut. The point of me coming on here is so the next person who decides to use F.M.U knows what there past his and ill be the first to say maybe they have improved there customer service & fabrication. But im done with them as far as im concerned.
10-18-2011, 09:40 AM
#89
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2004 W211 E55K, GL550
You know how I feel? This moron (the OP) allows this thread to continue for how many pages of ranting before he provides proof? He knew he was baiting everybody along. The other FMU thread was up for how many days with not a single word from him? So he creates this and then wants to pawn himself as a victim of verbal abuse? No sympathy from me. He knew what he was doing. Besides from whats been said already he posted these issues a while back on another thread. Next..
Last edited by bnzuovr; 10-18-2011 at 09:42 AM.
10-18-2011, 11:07 AM
#91
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2004 W211 E55K, GL550
A malfunctioning O2 sensor can literally shut the motor down, they have a much greater impact than just being the emisions police. I had 3 weeks of issues just due to one sensor with irratic voltage. The car ran fine at idle but as soon as you stepped on the gas the ecu began shutting down the cylinders on that bank due to perceived misfires. The plugs on that side were fouled beyond recovery. I would imagine that playing musical chairs with all four sensors would send the ecu for a loop that very well could lead to detonation damage or a burned piston.
Not only do i agree with you,but my car was dyno tuned with this set up on my vehicle six diffrent runs at that. And then i was told From Mike Marzano to drive it like this and see how it feels and thats what i get for listening to the pro's at F.M.U.
10-18-2011, 06:12 PM
#92
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everything
Who did FMU send the files to?
Around what date did the remote dyno tuning get done?
Around what date did the remote dyno tuning get done?
10-19-2011, 12:45 AM
#93
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The second time the car was tuned after the headers were installed mike.m was sending files to jermey but at that time i belive he wasn't working for PowerChip and i belive he wasn't working for OE Tuning either. So the 5 or 6 files he sent to jeremy is the last time the car was tuned then 3 weeks later the motor went Bye Bye. Also after the header install and tune my car went from around 440hp to the wheel down to around 415 if im not mistaken. I was told that this is normal for long tube headers
. P.S the Car felt no diffrent in power top end or low end and track times were only a .10 of a second faster.
Last edited by bnzuovr; 10-19-2011 at 12:47 AM.
10-19-2011, 03:11 AM
#94
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W164 ML500,SMART For two,1994 C280(5speed manual) 1999 C230k station wagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerchip
Who did FMU send the files to?
Around what date did the remote dyno tuning get done?
Well the original tune when i had the pulley installed was done by Jermey when he worked for PowerChip
I thought Jermey still worked for Powerchip? I dont know anything about FMU but what relationship do they have with Powerchip? I have dealt with Powerchip and was just wondering.
Originally Posted by Powerchip
Who did FMU send the files to?
Around what date did the remote dyno tuning get done?
Well the original tune when i had the pulley installed was done by Jermey when he worked for PowerChip
I thought Jermey still worked for Powerchip? I dont know anything about FMU but what relationship do they have with Powerchip? I have dealt with Powerchip and was just wondering.
10-19-2011, 03:18 AM
#95
MBWorld Fanatic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerchip
Who did FMU send the files to?
Around what date did the remote dyno tuning get done?
Well the original tune when i had the pulley installed was done by Jermey when he worked for PowerChip
I thought Jermey still worked for Powerchip? I dont know anything about FMU but what relationship do they have with Powerchip? I have dealt with Powerchip and was just wondering.
Originally Posted by Powerchip
Who did FMU send the files to?
Around what date did the remote dyno tuning get done?
Well the original tune when i had the pulley installed was done by Jermey when he worked for PowerChip
I thought Jermey still worked for Powerchip? I dont know anything about FMU but what relationship do they have with Powerchip? I have dealt with Powerchip and was just wondering.
He has his own company, OE Tuning.
10-19-2011, 03:40 AM
#96
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W164 ML500,SMART For two,1994 C280(5speed manual) 1999 C230k station wagon
Thanks for the quick response, I just checked my mails and I dealt with Paul @ Powerchip, dont know why I was thinking Jermey.
10-19-2011, 09:57 AM
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2010 c-63, 2008 ISF, 2007 996
I was planning on getting a FMU tune shortly, but I will now think twice about going there. Perhaps leaving the 63 stock is the best option to go with.
10-19-2011, 11:20 AM
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then hear it and feel it! seriously, you don't need to care about the performance! did you have any idea who are you dealing with? mike is an experienced and professional tuner!
