Black Series Power in "Normal" C63?
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From: Melbourne
(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
Black Series Power in "Normal" C63?
Was just looking at a Mercedes advert for the new B/S Coupe, where it mentioned 517hp & 620nm...also mentioned the SLS crank, rods, & pistons, which of course are already included in the P/P engine. Also mentioned a new ECU....So, is this (ECU)the ONLY difference between the two engines?.....If so, could one buy a B/S ECU, & thereby be able to say one has a B/S engine in my car....it already seemingly having all the other componants (except the ECU)...Are there any other differences?...if not, it would seem then, that the ECU is good for around 22/23hp? .
Cheers, Pickles.
Cheers, Pickles.
Last edited by Pickles; Jan 25, 2012 at 04:56 AM.
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2017 991.2 Turbo PDK 2017 C63S Coupe Ceramic Brakes 2015 CLS63S AMG Full House
If only it was that simple, tuners keep all the secrets on the C63. Ok as far as internals, I know for a fact that the Black Series and SLS share a very few internals and not the case whatsoever with the C63 sedan, coupe, or even P30, P31, etc, etc...
However, there are tuners that will do an ECU upgrade which is not detectable by your MB Dealer. Whether your C63 is standard or PP.
Also try Evosport and if you want to have 100wBhp on your C, get the Weistec Supercharger on there.
However, there are tuners that will do an ECU upgrade which is not detectable by your MB Dealer. Whether your C63 is standard or PP.
Also try Evosport and if you want to have 100wBhp on your C, get the Weistec Supercharger on there.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Melbourne
(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
I was referring to the M.B. text where it said that the B.S. C63 shared the Crank, Rods, & Pistons, with the SLS.....which are EXACTLY the same internal engine components as the P.P......then in reference to the B.S.,the only other modification M.B. mentioned, was the ECU....maybe that is not the only difference?....maybe there's a different camshaft, exhaust manifolding etc etc??......I don't know?
Being an Aussie, I know how all of the different power outputs of the Chevvy LS1/2/3 etc are obtained, & the different components that are used in the various editions of these engines to arrive at their power outputs, but from what I've seen on this site, no-one really knows what individual components are put into the various 6.2L AMG engines to make the varying power outputs in the different model...which can go from around 330KW, to well over 400KW.
So, how does this happen?....Can one buy the AMG O.E. components to put in their C63 engine, which would increase its power output to some of the more powerful models?
Cheers, Pickles.
Being an Aussie, I know how all of the different power outputs of the Chevvy LS1/2/3 etc are obtained, & the different components that are used in the various editions of these engines to arrive at their power outputs, but from what I've seen on this site, no-one really knows what individual components are put into the various 6.2L AMG engines to make the varying power outputs in the different model...which can go from around 330KW, to well over 400KW.
So, how does this happen?....Can one buy the AMG O.E. components to put in their C63 engine, which would increase its power output to some of the more powerful models?
Cheers, Pickles.
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From: NA
Yes
If only it was that simple, tuners keep all the secrets on the C63. Ok as far as internals, I know for a fact that the Black Series and SLS share a very few internals and not the case whatsoever with the C63 sedan, coupe, or even P30, P31, etc, etc...
However, there are tuners that will do an ECU upgrade which is not detectable by your MB Dealer. Whether your C63 is standard or PP.
Also try Evosport and if you want to have 100wBhp on your C, get the Weistec Supercharger on there.
However, there are tuners that will do an ECU upgrade which is not detectable by your MB Dealer. Whether your C63 is standard or PP.
Also try Evosport and if you want to have 100wBhp on your C, get the Weistec Supercharger on there.
Regarding 517 vs p31....the only 2012 p31 dyno ive seen translated to just over 500bhp as I recall. Underrated.
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NA
Was just looking at a Mercedes advert for the new B/S Coupe, where it mentioned 517hp & 620nm...also mentioned the SLS crank, rods, & pistons, which of course are already included in the P/P engine. Also mentioned a new ECU....So, is this (ECU)the ONLY difference between the two engines?.....If so, could one buy a B/S ECU, & thereby be able to say one has a B/S engine in my car....it already seemingly having all the other componants (except the ECU)...Are there any other differences?...if not, it would seem then, that the ECU is good for around 22/23hp? .
Cheers, Pickles.
Cheers, Pickles.
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C63 AMG
Didn't the BS have something creating a vacuum in the engine block too?
Other then the ECU, I haven't heard anything different. Its still a M156 with revised ECU parameters.
No, you can't just buy a BS ECU and throw it in your car for a BS engine.. Technically you have a BS engine, the engine is a M156 regardless of model. The ECUs are VIN coded and only work in one car. They have to be programmed to that car as well.
Other then the ECU, I haven't heard anything different. Its still a M156 with revised ECU parameters.
No, you can't just buy a BS ECU and throw it in your car for a BS engine.. Technically you have a BS engine, the engine is a M156 regardless of model. The ECUs are VIN coded and only work in one car. They have to be programmed to that car as well.
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I also have read that the LSD in the BS is a completely different make/brand than the P31....no matter how much upgrading goes into a P31, it is not the same from a factory build, dont forget that besides engine, there are brake, suspension, much wider track front and rear, lighter wheels etc, there is a whole lot of items added...I have heard a P31 coupe on the track and the new BS that same day on the track, they sound completely different, especially from the front of the car, there is a insane amount of engine sound from the front as the car is approaching, which leads me to believe as Merc63 stated that there is some vacuum thing in the engine block. Two totally different cars.
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From: Melbourne
(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
I was only referring to the engine.
I'm aware that ECU's are VIN specific.
My question is, that if you were to encode B.S. ECU spec into the ECU of a P31 optioned C63, would you then have the same engine as a B.S.?...In other words, are there any other differences to the engine, other than the ECU?
Cheers, Pickles.
I'm aware that ECU's are VIN specific.
My question is, that if you were to encode B.S. ECU spec into the ECU of a P31 optioned C63, would you then have the same engine as a B.S.?...In other words, are there any other differences to the engine, other than the ECU?
Cheers, Pickles.
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C63 BS, GLA45
I also have read that the LSD in the BS is a completely different make/brand than the P31....no matter how much upgrading goes into a P31, it is not the same from a factory build, dont forget that besides engine, there are brake, suspension, much wider track front and rear, lighter wheels etc, there is a whole lot of items added...I have heard a P31 coupe on the track and the new BS that same day on the track, they sound completely different, especially from the front of the car, there is a insane amount of engine sound from the front as the car is approaching, which leads me to believe as Merc63 stated that there is some vacuum thing in the engine block. Two totally different cars.
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AFAIK the BS has a different ecu although same Forged internals as P31 and SLS. Below from insideline.
Additionally, the Black Series engine block omits the base C63's internal sump vents between adjacent crankshaft bearings. This transforms the bottom end into a series of isolated V2 compartments meant to capture the pressure buildup beneath each plummeting piston to help push it up again for additional torque. The trade-off is a lumpier idle, but we're OK with that.
Additionally, the Black Series engine block omits the base C63's internal sump vents between adjacent crankshaft bearings. This transforms the bottom end into a series of isolated V2 compartments meant to capture the pressure buildup beneath each plummeting piston to help push it up again for additional torque. The trade-off is a lumpier idle, but we're OK with that.
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All that he told me, was that the major differences between the C63 and all its marketing variations, compared to the CLK 63 Black Series and the SLS, were 3 major components to change viz.
1] Valves are longer.
2] Camshafts are completely different, to suit the travel of the valves.
3] Lastly the better injectors, making far better accelaration.
Change these and you have a C63 Rocket.
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I just spoke to a head AMG technician @ Bedfordview AMG in Johannesburg, South Africa.
All that he told me, was that the major differences between the C63 and all its marketing variations, compared to the CLK 63 Black Series and the SLS, were 3 major components to change viz.
1] Valves are longer.
2] Camshafts are completely different, to suit the travel of the valves.
3] Lastly the better injectors, making far better accelaration.
Change these and you have a C63 Rocket.
All that he told me, was that the major differences between the C63 and all its marketing variations, compared to the CLK 63 Black Series and the SLS, were 3 major components to change viz.
1] Valves are longer.
2] Camshafts are completely different, to suit the travel of the valves.
3] Lastly the better injectors, making far better accelaration.
Change these and you have a C63 Rocket.
The Black Series has much more up its sleeve that makes it a MUCH better road course car than the standard C63. If you road course often its completely worth it.
If you are going to sit in traffic with it every day....
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You could say the same thing about a regular C63 vs a C300.
If MB has sold out the BS and the buyers are happy, who cares? Every buyer has their own 'value meter' so to speak.
If they made too many and they depreciate then I'll be more than happy to pick one up when the value makes sense for me!
If MB has sold out the BS and the buyers are happy, who cares? Every buyer has their own 'value meter' so to speak.
If they made too many and they depreciate then I'll be more than happy to pick one up when the value makes sense for me!
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CLK Black
You could say the same thing about a regular C63 vs a C300.
If MB has sold out the BS and the buyers are happy, who cares? Every buyer has their own 'value meter' so to speak.
If they made too many and they depreciate then I'll be more than happy to pick one up when the value makes sense for me!
If MB has sold out the BS and the buyers are happy, who cares? Every buyer has their own 'value meter' so to speak.
If they made too many and they depreciate then I'll be more than happy to pick one up when the value makes sense for me!
