M156 head bolt problems
11-10-2013, 01:26 PM
#577
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2007 Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG
Last week, witnessed the “check coolant” and the “top off coolant” warnings. Stopped driving the car, went to the dealer and had to present the TSB to substantiate my concern over the head bolts. Thanks to Bud Wilkinson for posting the TSB on post #479.
I took the TSB along with my Data Card (to show I was in the bad head bolt range) to the dealer. My MB dealer is a regional sales and service rep and therefore, had to make a call to the dealership’s national “home office” for more clarification. Since the TSB is a “LIxxx.xxx.xxx” version, learned it was recognized to be a “Local” version; vice a “GExxx.xxx.xxx,” which would mean a “Global”distributed TSB. It was further explained to me that there is no recall over the head bolts for the M156.
I now have an appointment to have the car checked under warranty on the head bolt issue, now that the dealership acknowledged the “LI” TSB. If I didn’t have the TSB, it would’ve been a hard sell. So, definitely thank you B. Wilkinson. It helped me get the ball rolling in what I think is the right direction.
Here’s my recommendation for anyone who is concerned of an engine block leak for those M156 engines that are in “the range.” They may not be catch all indicators, but may help. Check the coolant reservoir with a dab of white paper. If oil has made its way into the coolant system, dabbing the white paper in the reservoir will reveal the oil as it should eventually rise to the top in the reservoir. You could also check for a mix of coolant into the oil with a thorough oil dipstick check. Even if you haven’t received the warning and your engine is in the range of the faulty bolts, do these checks periodically or closely monitor your coolant level as preventative maintenance. You may also want to press the issue with your MB dealership, using the TSB as a justification, rather than waiting for the failure or the failure occurring just when you’ve hit the point of being outside your warranty.
Luckily, I’m still within my warranty and if the check-up is revealing, the service should be cost-free to me. I did ask about getting the SLS lifters/tappets if the head bolts are replaced during the engine rebuild. The SA was unsure, noting they would have to use whatever MB dictated by part number.
Does anyone know if the SLS lifters are automatically used; previous M156 lifters precluded? Part number for the new ones?
Thanks...
I took the TSB along with my Data Card (to show I was in the bad head bolt range) to the dealer. My MB dealer is a regional sales and service rep and therefore, had to make a call to the dealership’s national “home office” for more clarification. Since the TSB is a “LIxxx.xxx.xxx” version, learned it was recognized to be a “Local” version; vice a “GExxx.xxx.xxx,” which would mean a “Global”distributed TSB. It was further explained to me that there is no recall over the head bolts for the M156.
I now have an appointment to have the car checked under warranty on the head bolt issue, now that the dealership acknowledged the “LI” TSB. If I didn’t have the TSB, it would’ve been a hard sell. So, definitely thank you B. Wilkinson. It helped me get the ball rolling in what I think is the right direction.
Here’s my recommendation for anyone who is concerned of an engine block leak for those M156 engines that are in “the range.” They may not be catch all indicators, but may help. Check the coolant reservoir with a dab of white paper. If oil has made its way into the coolant system, dabbing the white paper in the reservoir will reveal the oil as it should eventually rise to the top in the reservoir. You could also check for a mix of coolant into the oil with a thorough oil dipstick check. Even if you haven’t received the warning and your engine is in the range of the faulty bolts, do these checks periodically or closely monitor your coolant level as preventative maintenance. You may also want to press the issue with your MB dealership, using the TSB as a justification, rather than waiting for the failure or the failure occurring just when you’ve hit the point of being outside your warranty.
Luckily, I’m still within my warranty and if the check-up is revealing, the service should be cost-free to me. I did ask about getting the SLS lifters/tappets if the head bolts are replaced during the engine rebuild. The SA was unsure, noting they would have to use whatever MB dictated by part number.
Does anyone know if the SLS lifters are automatically used; previous M156 lifters precluded? Part number for the new ones?
Thanks...
Glad you will be getting this done under warranty.
From what I can tell, the SLS tappet part number has succeeded all others in the parts manual and is the only one available.
Best of luck. Full warranty will save you a lot of money. Believe me. I'm getting mine back from the local independent tomorrow and will follow up then.
Bud
11-10-2013, 01:34 PM
#578
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2007 Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG
Update: Finally got some follow up info. Spoke face-to-face with Service Mgr at local dealer. His opinion was that MBUSA would not likely participate in my repair. Also, did some creative writing and finally got my MBUSA case mgr to give me some ballpark idea of any potential participation. She told me that "if any" participation from MBUSA, I would be looking at 10-15% tops, "IF", no guarantees in participation.
The dealer would have needed me to put the engine back together and add fluids back before I were to bring it back anyway. Cost of putting it back together and bringing it to dealer would not be cost effective.
So, my error, brought it to my trusted local indy shop first, HOWEVER, my opinion, I would have "potentially" received up to 15% discount (best case scenario) off of high dealer repair costs, possibly not even saving me any out-of-pocket expense. Additionally, my opinion is that my indy shop will do higher quality work than dealer.
So this is what I keep telling myself to make me feel better about the whole situation.
Disappointed in MBUSA for lack of support of their engineering failure.
No total cost of repair yet. Still in shop. Expecting to get it back next week.
The dealer would have needed me to put the engine back together and add fluids back before I were to bring it back anyway. Cost of putting it back together and bringing it to dealer would not be cost effective.
So, my error, brought it to my trusted local indy shop first, HOWEVER, my opinion, I would have "potentially" received up to 15% discount (best case scenario) off of high dealer repair costs, possibly not even saving me any out-of-pocket expense. Additionally, my opinion is that my indy shop will do higher quality work than dealer.
So this is what I keep telling myself to make me feel better about the whole situation.
Disappointed in MBUSA for lack of support of their engineering failure.
No total cost of repair yet. Still in shop. Expecting to get it back next week.
Never second guess your thought that the independent will do a better job for less if they are reputable and have your trust.
10-15% is sad and laughable at the same time.
Sorry for your loss and best of luck.
11-11-2013, 03:58 AM
#579
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2010 P31 Obsidian; 1990 ZX11
EC,
Glad you will be getting this done under warranty.
From what I can tell, the SLS tappet part number has succeeded all others in the parts manual and is the only one available.
Best of luck. Full warranty will save you a lot of money. Believe me. I'm getting mine back from the local independent tomorrow and will follow up then.
Bud
Glad you will be getting this done under warranty.
From what I can tell, the SLS tappet part number has succeeded all others in the parts manual and is the only one available.
Best of luck. Full warranty will save you a lot of money. Believe me. I'm getting mine back from the local independent tomorrow and will follow up then.
Bud
Thanks for the support. To help others in their search, if interested, found the M159 lifters/tappets in another post. I trust they're accurate.
old M156 tappet part number: A156 050 00 25
new M159 tappet part number: A156 050 02 25
Good to know MB superseded the old with the new.
EC
11-11-2013, 03:09 PM
#580
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2007 Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG
Bud,
Thanks for the support. To help others in their search, if interested, found the M159 lifters/tappets in another post. I trust they're accurate.
old M156 tappet part number: A156 050 00 25
new M159 tappet part number: A156 050 02 25
Good to know MB superseded the old with the new.
EC
Thanks for the support. To help others in their search, if interested, found the M159 lifters/tappets in another post. I trust they're accurate.
old M156 tappet part number: A156 050 00 25
new M159 tappet part number: A156 050 02 25
Good to know MB superseded the old with the new.
EC
11-11-2013, 03:16 PM
#581
VALVE TAPPET. . 2009 Mercedes C 63 AMG.
Fits: 156.980, 156.981, 156.982, 156.983, 156.984, 156.985, 159.98
Stock Code 1560500225; 1560500025 Manufacturer Mercedes Benz Categories Engine Assemblies
1560500025 has been superceded by 1560500225
Fits: 156.980, 156.981, 156.982, 156.983, 156.984, 156.985, 159.98
Stock Code 1560500225; 1560500025 Manufacturer Mercedes Benz Categories Engine Assemblies
1560500025 has been superceded by 1560500225
11-11-2013, 10:46 PM
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Mercedes c63 amg
Guys you make me freak everybody. I have a 2010 w204 sedan with 67,000 km I'm in Canada and I don't know what to do I just ship mine by euro charge, and my warranty is still good untill next March.
Do I have to make it, if the dealer accept to make he will see my upgrade and automatically refuse to pay for it... What would be your recommendation
Thanks
Do I have to make it, if the dealer accept to make he will see my upgrade and automatically refuse to pay for it... What would be your recommendation
Thanks
11-12-2013, 04:06 PM
#583
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2007 Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG
Guys you make me freak everybody. I have a 2010 w204 sedan with 67,000 km I'm in Canada and I don't know what to do I just ship mine by euro charge, and my warranty is still good untill next March.
Do I have to make it, if the dealer accept to make he will see my upgrade and automatically refuse to pay for it... What would be your recommendation
Thanks
Do I have to make it, if the dealer accept to make he will see my upgrade and automatically refuse to pay for it... What would be your recommendation
Thanks
Don't freak out man. You can't 100% make the bolt break as a driver. Nor can you make the Tappets wear out the cams any faster than they will. In my case there was no abnormal cam tappet wear at 73,000 miles. But they were replaced as part of the TSB statements.
What I would do in your case is shop for a comprehensive aftermarket warranty that covers the engine. These can be very expensive. I had quotes for between $5,000 and $7,000 with $1000 to $250 deductible. Mine broke before I could buy one. It still would have been cheaper than the $8250.00 repair and I would have been covered for anything else.
Just my 2 cents.
BTW the shop just called and I am getting my car back NOW!!!! Wahoo!!!
Bud
11-21-2013, 07:55 AM
#585
Junior Member
Well after reading lots in here and thinking it through I just bought a 2009 C63 with 75K KM's on the clock and 2 years MB warranty! I think i'll go and talking to them about the TSB's when I have 1 year left and see what MB says as I plan to keep the car for 3-4 years.
I drove it back from Brisbane to Sydney (inland) about 1100 KM's last weekend and it was breath-taking.
Just wanted to say thanks for the various advise given here.
I drove it back from Brisbane to Sydney (inland) about 1100 KM's last weekend and it was breath-taking.
Just wanted to say thanks for the various advise given here.
11-21-2013, 08:13 AM
#586
Super Member
Well after reading lots in here and thinking it through I just bought a 2009 C63 with 75K KM's on the clock and 2 years MB warranty! I think i'll go and talking to them about the TSB's when I have 1 year left and see what MB says as I plan to keep the car for 3-4 years.
I drove it back from Brisbane to Sydney (inland) about 1100 KM's last weekend and it was breath-taking.
Just wanted to say thanks for the various advise given here.
I drove it back from Brisbane to Sydney (inland) about 1100 KM's last weekend and it was breath-taking.
Just wanted to say thanks for the various advise given here.
11-22-2013, 07:16 AM
#587
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11-22-2013, 03:38 PM
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2010 P31 Obsidian; 1990 ZX11
An update...
...on my "add coolant / top off coolant now" dash warning:
Took the car to the dealer today. SA said the coolant system was placed under pressure (not sure how much pressure) for at least 30 minutes. The SA said other models, he wasn't sure about the C class, were placed under the pressure limit of 2 bar, which is nearly 30 PSI. No leak or change in coolant level recognized. Therefore, coolant level was topped off and the car returned to me. Still curious to better understand the loss of coolant, but it does not yet appear to be a headbolt related issue.
My plan is to simply monitor the coolant level in case there's a need to return to the dealer. At least I have peace of mind of having the dealership check it out, under a warranty call, and having it documented the dealership cleared the car for continued use. If I have issues in the future, there's my fall back.
For reference, mileage is just under 29000 kms and the car is typically stored for the winter.
Perhaps the 2 Bar/30 PSI test can help others.
EC
Took the car to the dealer today. SA said the coolant system was placed under pressure (not sure how much pressure) for at least 30 minutes. The SA said other models, he wasn't sure about the C class, were placed under the pressure limit of 2 bar, which is nearly 30 PSI. No leak or change in coolant level recognized. Therefore, coolant level was topped off and the car returned to me. Still curious to better understand the loss of coolant, but it does not yet appear to be a headbolt related issue.
My plan is to simply monitor the coolant level in case there's a need to return to the dealer. At least I have peace of mind of having the dealership check it out, under a warranty call, and having it documented the dealership cleared the car for continued use. If I have issues in the future, there's my fall back.
For reference, mileage is just under 29000 kms and the car is typically stored for the winter.
Perhaps the 2 Bar/30 PSI test can help others.
EC
Last edited by EC C63; 11-22-2013 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Add'l info
11-22-2013, 04:06 PM
#589
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07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
Would be a little hesitant on 30psi but as long as its is dealer warranty let them. 15-16psi is normal and would be happy at this pressure. For then next while check the coolant level in the morning before startup when the car is stone cold, normally there should be a little residual pressure when removing the reservoir cap when cold, I always like to hear this release when the cap comes off, it is kind of a security that the level should be okay.
It was in your best interest to have the dealer look at it and at least you have a work order documenting,1 your concern and 2 their work that was done for the reason given.
It was in your best interest to have the dealer look at it and at least you have a work order documenting,1 your concern and 2 their work that was done for the reason given.
11-22-2013, 06:05 PM
#590
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2007 Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG
My Baby is Back
Although it was expensive, the car is worth it and I'm glad to have it fixed.
I got the old parts and will try to get some pictures of the broken stuff posted soon.
I love this car.
I got the old parts and will try to get some pictures of the broken stuff posted soon.
I love this car.
11-24-2013, 06:58 PM
#591
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
Good to hear you got the car back and it is working well. May it continue to run strong and hard for a long time to come. Enjoy it in good health and be safe.
12-16-2013, 10:13 AM
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2009 E63
Follow up on head bolt failure repair
Well...got my E63 back Thursday last week. $8,530 total repair bill.
She ran great until yesterday. The wife and I were gonna take it to lunch, started it up and heard a loud ticking noise from the engine.
I thought I have read ticking noises could be caused by low oil. Checked oil and level looks fine.
After a complete head tear down, what are possible causes of the ticking noise?
She ran great until yesterday. The wife and I were gonna take it to lunch, started it up and heard a loud ticking noise from the engine.
I thought I have read ticking noises could be caused by low oil. Checked oil and level looks fine.
After a complete head tear down, what are possible causes of the ticking noise?
12-16-2013, 11:24 AM
#594
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C63AMG, NIssan NX2000, Pontiac Fiero GT
Mg, Immediately take it back. Let's hope it is as simple as an untorqued exhaust manifold gasket. Since the car was quiet (?) at first we would like to eliminate a dry lifter as a suspect. Those who have the star data...is there a lifter soak called out before installation? Good luck .
12-16-2013, 12:36 PM
#595
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well...got my E63 back Thursday last week. $8,530 total repair bill.
She ran great until yesterday. The wife and I were gonna take it to lunch, started it up and heard a loud ticking noise from the engine.
I thought I have read ticking noises could be caused by low oil. Checked oil and level looks fine.
After a complete head tear down, what are possible causes of the ticking noise?
She ran great until yesterday. The wife and I were gonna take it to lunch, started it up and heard a loud ticking noise from the engine.
I thought I have read ticking noises could be caused by low oil. Checked oil and level looks fine.
After a complete head tear down, what are possible causes of the ticking noise?
I'd take it back to be safe. Mine did the same thing but after 500 miles the noised stopped. Since they changed the lifters when they did the retro fit, it could be the new lifters making a little noise until the get seated.
12-16-2013, 08:46 PM
#596
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02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
Today went to Rallye Mercedes to get oil change. Talked to the service advisor about any TSB on the C63. He said there was none. Also I mentioned the headbolt problem. There were no incidents on that too. I know Rallye is a huge dealer and not even one m156 repair? So far my c63 doesnt use coolant. It has 32k miles.
12-16-2013, 08:56 PM
#597
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Today went to Rallye Mercedes to get oil change. Talked to the service advisor about any TSB on the C63. He said there was none. Also I mentioned the headbolt problem. There were no incidents on that too. I know Rallye is a huge dealer and not even one m156 repair? So far my c63 doesnt use coolant. It has 32k miles.
I'm sure this dealer also tells everyone they do not offer any discounts on MBZ. My original SA had no clue, even with her super computer she couldn't tell a head bolt from a lug bolt. After I talked to the shop foreman, the truth came out. 4 failures within the prior 6 months.
12-16-2013, 09:04 PM
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02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
I'm sure this dealer also tells everyone they do not offer any discounts on MBZ. My original SA had no clue, even with her super computer she couldn't tell a head bolt from a lug bolt. After I talked to the shop foreman, the truth came out. 4 failures within the prior 6 months.
12-17-2013, 01:48 AM
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2009 E63
DuaneC63, wow, I hope my ticking just magically goes away! I am just going to think happy thoughts.
