Jun 17, 2015, 12:19 PM
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C63 Head Bolts and Engine Repair
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
For those of you that think that the head bolt issue is not very common, please refer to the other thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-problems.html
This is not uncommon! In fact MB is well aware of the issue but have chosen not to provide customers with the support that they deserve. This is my third mercedes and I'm hugely disappointed with the fact that the customer service is so poor. The technicians at MB denied even hearing about the issue until I described the symptoms and they were quick to tell me to tow the car in immediately. This will be most likely the last Mercedes I buy. My husband told me to get an infiniti or land Rover but I stayed loyal to MB but they didn't stay loyal to me.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-problems.html
This is not uncommon! In fact MB is well aware of the issue but have chosen not to provide customers with the support that they deserve. This is my third mercedes and I'm hugely disappointed with the fact that the customer service is so poor. The technicians at MB denied even hearing about the issue until I described the symptoms and they were quick to tell me to tow the car in immediately. This will be most likely the last Mercedes I buy. My husband told me to get an infiniti or land Rover but I stayed loyal to MB but they didn't stay loyal to me.
You were losing >2 gal / week for 3 months? That sounds like a cracked block or head
How do you know it is not 'uncommon' what ever that means...do you have statistical data to back up that claim?
Please share
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
They need to tear the engine down to see cracks or broken bolts
First; MB obviously aware of the issue since the fastener type was changed
Second: they seem to be willing to work with people... They rebuilt one guys just ipon his word that he lost a bit of coolant months prior, no tests no nothing, just rebuilt it based on a small coolant loss
So a MB dealer has told you that a head bolt is broken? And they will not contribute towards repairs?
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
c63
It is now 2 months later , lots of tests later , parts arrived from Germany in kit form , with pistons etc in boxes so nothing was pre assembled in Germany . The crank and heads were just sent to a local engineering shop and car still the car not ready , was told for last week that the car has been assembled but wont start . I thought MB would send a complete sub assembly with pistons fitted etc , Am i being naive
Last edited by Rodmaxwell; May 4, 2014 at 03:45 PM. Reason: typing error
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
It is now 2 months later , lots of tests later , parts arrived from Germany in kit form , with pistons etc in boxes so nothing was pre assembled in Germany . The crank and heads were just sent to a local engineering shop and car still the car not ready , was told for last week that the car has been assembled but wont start . I thought MB would send a complete sub assembly with pistons fitted etc , Am i being naive
not sure a bad head bolt would cause a piston to be expelled through the block
and the block it self was not damaged?
so they sent a bare block
and the heads, crank, pistons, rods, etc as individual components
were the heads assembled with cams/valves/etc.?
they usually send a long block if a piston has gone through it?
Last edited by Ingenieur; May 4, 2014 at 04:07 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
CLS63 AMG
I am looking to purchase a 2007 CLS63 AMG with 85,000 miles on it, the seller says it has been dealer maintained and serviced regularly. He offered to take it in for inspection and assures me it has zero issues and runs like a champ. As I fell in love with this car I began to research and came across this forum(thank you!) and thread. I am scared sh*tless now and feel like I better not get this car. Is it general consensus that these cars are unreliable and a crap shoot or bomb ready to go off?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,601
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From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
I am looking to purchase a 2007 CLS63 AMG with 85,000 miles on it, the seller says it has been dealer maintained and serviced regularly. He offered to take it in for inspection and assures me it has zero issues and runs like a champ. As I fell in love with this car I began to research and came across this forum(thank you!) and thread. I am scared sh*tless now and feel like I better not get this car. Is it general consensus that these cars are unreliable and a crap shoot or bomb ready to go off?
When in doubt take a pass unless the retro fit has already been completed. If the problem was just a blown head gasket on an engine with 85k on it, you could just pull the heads replace the bolts and gaskets and get a value job done on it since it's already apart. The problem is that this is more than just the head bolts. You could get hydro lock which will grenade your entire engine. The lifters are also bad that cause premature cam wear. So at 85K you could be looking at cams and lifters are part of the retrofit.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2
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CLS63 AMG
Yep
When in doubt take a pass unless the retro fit has already been completed. If the problem was just a blown head gasket on an engine with 85k on it, you could just pull the heads replace the bolts and gaskets and get a value job done on it since it's already apart. The problem is that this is more than just the head bolts. You could get hydro lock which will grenade your entire engine. The lifters are also bad that cause premature cam wear. So at 85K you could be looking at cams and lifters are part of the retrofit.
and he said "really? I never heard of that, my car runs great"
I am not sure if he playing stupid or if he telling the truth and the car is on the verge of exploding.
Either way I think I am going to avoid a heart attack and taking a second mortgage on my house to fix it if it fails..
Thanks for your reply
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Super Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 521
Likes: 3
From: North East
2011 C63 AW
If it bothers you now, it will bother you even more if you buy it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but you have no reassurances. you have spent time doing your homework to understand the risks involved soooo......
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
ML63AMG, acura nsx
I have a 2010 ML63 and it has spent the majority of this year in the shop. First it was head bolts that they replaced which took three months. In the process, they shorted the distribution system which I got to pay to replace, then fuel injectors, etc.
I had to pay half the costs for the head bolts after quite a bit of arguing since they weren’t going to do anything at all initially which cost me ~$4000. One month later, it’s back in the shop and needs the engine reconstructed because the tensioner guide broke off and destroyed the engine. This is a 100k+ POS and MB has no problem stealing from its customers and pawning off this crap under the guise of a luxury, high performance vehicle. Now I get to sit here and wait for three days to find out what this round of repairs is going to cost me and how long. Better to get some reliable Japanese engineering. My NSX is 23 years old and has cost me next to nothing in maintenance and head aches. It's more reliable than this POS that's 20 years newer. How embarassing is that for MB?
I had to pay half the costs for the head bolts after quite a bit of arguing since they weren’t going to do anything at all initially which cost me ~$4000. One month later, it’s back in the shop and needs the engine reconstructed because the tensioner guide broke off and destroyed the engine. This is a 100k+ POS and MB has no problem stealing from its customers and pawning off this crap under the guise of a luxury, high performance vehicle. Now I get to sit here and wait for three days to find out what this round of repairs is going to cost me and how long. Better to get some reliable Japanese engineering. My NSX is 23 years old and has cost me next to nothing in maintenance and head aches. It's more reliable than this POS that's 20 years newer. How embarassing is that for MB?
Last edited by saziz; Oct 22, 2014 at 06:13 PM.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
I have a 2010 ML63 and it has spent the majority of this year in the shop. First it was head bolts that they replaced which took three months. In the process, they shorted the distribution system which I got to pay to replace, then fuel injectors, etc.
I had to pay half the costs for the head bolts after quite a bit of arguing since they weren’t going to do anything at all initially which cost me ~$4000. One month later, it’s back in the shop and needs the engine reconstructed because the tensioner guide broke off and destroyed the engine. This is a 100k+ POS and MB has no problem stealing from its customers and pawning off this crap under the guise of a luxury, high performance vehicle. Now I get to sit here and wait for three days to find out what this round of repairs is going to cost me and how long. Better to get some reliable Japanese engineering. My NSX is 23 years old and has cost me next to nothing in maintenance and head aches. It's more reliable than this POS that's 20 years newer. How embarassing is that for MB?
I had to pay half the costs for the head bolts after quite a bit of arguing since they weren’t going to do anything at all initially which cost me ~$4000. One month later, it’s back in the shop and needs the engine reconstructed because the tensioner guide broke off and destroyed the engine. This is a 100k+ POS and MB has no problem stealing from its customers and pawning off this crap under the guise of a luxury, high performance vehicle. Now I get to sit here and wait for three days to find out what this round of repairs is going to cost me and how long. Better to get some reliable Japanese engineering. My NSX is 23 years old and has cost me next to nothing in maintenance and head aches. It's more reliable than this POS that's 20 years newer. How embarassing is that for MB?
What were the symptoms?
How many miles?
Please fill out the poll in the last post in the head bolt sticky
Why 3 months and why so much?
I have 2 written quites for 4300, and both said they might do better and give me some discount for MB Club membership
This is without any assistance from MB USA who usually cover over 1/2 if you had them do the regular service, on lower mileage cars they cover even more
They won't help unless a bolt is broke
My advice
Have dealer service per the book
Put your concerns in writing to MB USA
I was told it is scanned into your records
But imo the likelyhood is so small forget about it and enjoy the car
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2
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2009 ML63
I own a 2009 ML63 purchased from Massapequa Mercedes. 3 Months after my warranty was up with 56k miles my coolant was low. There was no coolant under the vehicle. I refilled it and the next day while driving I got a miss of a cylinder with a small amount of white smoke. I shut the vehicle down and had it towed to Mercedes. After diagnosing the truck they told me it needed head bolts. I had reviewed this problem and noted there was a service bulletin out on 4/14/2011. In short, head bolts are defective in this motor (M156). The dealer told me there could be a possible bent connecting rod. I told him how did he check it? The mechanic there told me that he didn’t but he was sure. Also that the pistons come in a set of eight and I would be required to change all 8 pistons with all connecting rods. The repair is not just to fix the side of the engine with the problem but also to disassemble the other side and replace their defective head bolts. Service Consultant Vincent Vetere and Service manager Frank Mazziotti gave me an estimate of 28k. I told them they were not following the service bulletin and they stated this is how they fix this problem. I discussed this problem with Mercedes USA. They told me they would cover half of the repair. That would make it 14k to get my car fixed. I had to pay the dealer 1300 to get my car out of the dealer. I had a German care specialist, disassemble my car. He found the piston heights were normal and that my repair would be 5k. Couple of weeks later my truck is up and running. Mercedes USA needs to own up to their motor defect and Massapequa Mercedes is nothing short of an extortion ring in their repair department.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
What did MB say when you told them they wanted to replace rods and pistons before disassembly?
Or did they tear it down?
What was the 1300 for?
It's good you posted the specific information
I might have tried another dealer or ask MB to have their tech visit and inspect after teardown
I would sue MB in small claims, the dealer too since they sold it to you
If they were willing to give the dealer 14k they should reimburse you
But more likely they would do a standard repair (no pistons etc) and make you pay 14k for a 5k job, sounds like crooks
Get this to every car magazine out there
Some may print it
Complaint BBB
WRITTEN comlaint to MB
Or did they tear it down?
What was the 1300 for?
It's good you posted the specific information
I might have tried another dealer or ask MB to have their tech visit and inspect after teardown
I would sue MB in small claims, the dealer too since they sold it to you
If they were willing to give the dealer 14k they should reimburse you
But more likely they would do a standard repair (no pistons etc) and make you pay 14k for a 5k job, sounds like crooks
Get this to every car magazine out there
Some may print it
Complaint BBB
WRITTEN comlaint to MB
Last edited by Ingenieur; Oct 22, 2014 at 09:41 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
2009 ML63
ML63 defective head bolts
Dealer told me that it would need 1 piston without measuring it because of possible hydrolock. I told them the motor was running when I turned it off and did not lock up. They then told me they change all eight and they come in a set. The parts for the Pistons were 8k plus 7k to just put them in. I felt they were floating the bill to just build it up. I don't think they would ever have done the work. They would of just charged me for it.
1300 dollars was for the break down and diagnosis. They took the intake, valve covers and over head cams out.
1300 dollars was for the break down and diagnosis. They took the intake, valve covers and over head cams out.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,556
Likes: 15
From: Canada
07 E63 + 07 CLK63CAB
So lets give the "tech" credit he knows how to open the hood. Four hours with a hangover from being **** drunk the night before should be enough time @ 150 shop rate /hr to do all the above parts removal. 600 bucks and your butt would still be burning from the dry thrashing you just took.
It amazing these service "advisors" must be on meds to sleep at night. Feeding BS to customers all day. 7K to put pistons in OMG.
It amazing these service "advisors" must be on meds to sleep at night. Feeding BS to customers all day. 7K to put pistons in OMG.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
If they took the cams out they probably found the broken bolt
The could also use a dial indicator to measure stroke and the max rise for each piston
This would tell them if one was bent
I'd sue
MB knew there is an issue
The dealer did not disclose there was an issue
A class action can provided remedy for those that haven't failed yet
Like the Porsche balance shaft seals and rms
But imo you will do better suing on your own, plus qucker resolution
It most likely be arbitration
The could also use a dial indicator to measure stroke and the max rise for each piston
This would tell them if one was bent
I'd sue
MB knew there is an issue
The dealer did not disclose there was an issue
A class action can provided remedy for those that haven't failed yet
Like the Porsche balance shaft seals and rms
But imo you will do better suing on your own, plus qucker resolution
It most likely be arbitration
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
ML63AMG, acura nsx
Did a bolt break?
What were the symptoms?
How many miles?
Please fill out the poll in the last post in the head bolt sticky
Why 3 months and why so much?
I have 2 written quites for 4300, and both said they might do better and give me some discount for MB Club membership
This is without any assistance from MB USA who usually cover over 1/2 if you had them do the regular service, on lower mileage cars they cover even more
They won't help unless a bolt is broke
My advice
Have dealer service per the book
Put your concerns in writing to MB USA
I was told it is scanned into your records
But imo the likelyhood is so small forget about it and enjoy the car
What were the symptoms?
How many miles?
Please fill out the poll in the last post in the head bolt sticky
Why 3 months and why so much?
I have 2 written quites for 4300, and both said they might do better and give me some discount for MB Club membership
This is without any assistance from MB USA who usually cover over 1/2 if you had them do the regular service, on lower mileage cars they cover even more
They won't help unless a bolt is broke
My advice
Have dealer service per the book
Put your concerns in writing to MB USA
I was told it is scanned into your records
But imo the likelyhood is so small forget about it and enjoy the car
It was regularly serviced by the dealer which is why they decided to pay a part of it at after arguing with them. It has 130k KMs on it which should be nothing on a MB but I guess it is. I'm in Canada and have written to MB Canada and all they said is that they're looking into it. So much for customer service.
It's been a month now on this other issue and the best they can tell me is that they're still getting an estimate. I'm pretty much writing it off at this point since I need a car for the winter and the ML63 was suppose to be it. It's going to take them another 2 months and probably another 8k to solve this other problem.
Going to look at a Jag this week. Bye Bye Benz.
Last edited by saziz; Dec 3, 2014 at 07:24 PM. Reason: answer all the questions
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
C63
Hello Gents!!
Ive changed my email so I had no idea this post generated so much activity!!! Seems like it really helped a lot of people and that is terrific. Its been a long time since Roland at Mr. Tazzy Motorsports rebuilt my motor and let me tell ya!!!! Its still running as a strong as a beast!!!
If my ex wife didn't take more than half of my cash, Id buy MT tires and see what it can really do! My only problem now is traction!!!!
I hope you are all doing well and drive safe! God Bless.
JonnyNitro14
If my ex wife didn't take more than half of my cash, Id buy MT tires and see what it can really do! My only problem now is traction!!!!
I hope you are all doing well and drive safe! God Bless.
JonnyNitro14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 10
From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
Ive changed my email so I had no idea this post generated so much activity!!! Seems like it really helped a lot of people and that is terrific. Its been a long time since Roland at Mr. Tazzy Motorsports rebuilt my motor and let me tell ya!!!! Its still running as a strong as a beast!!!
If my ex wife didn't take more than half of my cash, Id buy MT tires and see what it can really do! My only problem now is traction!!!!
I hope you are all doing well and drive safe! God Bless.
JonnyNitro14
If my ex wife didn't take more than half of my cash, Id buy MT tires and see what it can really do! My only problem now is traction!!!!
I hope you are all doing well and drive safe! God Bless.
JonnyNitro14
Wider, sticker tires will help, the best way to get more traction to the ground is to make both rear tires work. Try a Quafe LSD.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
C63
Boiler plate says mech engineers carefully calculate bolt, material ,thread,
head gasket compression , scatter plots of compression etc etc before they specify gasket, bolt and values. So MB totally screwed up, partially screwed up, kinda screwed up?? Are we jumping at the studs as racer boys who love the porcupine look during assembly? Has ARP specifically looked at M 156? Some knowledge , but not enough can hurt.
Has any one destructively tested the old oem and new oem in the lathe instrument to see if a weakness does exist just under the heads? Just sayin' as they say.
To suggest that anyone with a head bolt issue is a "racer boy" is cute. Im a single dad and Mine blew in a WalMart parking lot while my three kids and I were picking up groceries and t shirts for school. So not sure how a "racer boy" makes a head bolt failure...dick.
