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C63 Head Bolts and Engine Repair
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 344
Likes: 5
From: Battle Ground WA
C63AMG, NIssan NX2000, Pontiac Fiero GT
The more I read on line the more questions occur to me. I guess most of you understand a lot of what causes the OEM head bolt failure.
Some say corrosion causes the breakage. The pic I saw looked work hardened. Isn't corrosion too soon on the C 63?
How can we feel assured with the "improved" oem bolt...no failures?
The ARP stud is torqued rather than TTY? Who decides the value? The reading I have done does not show conclusive need for studs. Are the failures from hard WOT work daily, drag racing?
Pure tensile strength of bolt is not significant and the head gasket is moving around during the heat excursions. Are different head gaskets used with the studs? The head , gasket and block are squirming around and doesn't seem that studs are the cure all, though appealing.
Boiler plate says mech engineers carefully calculate bolt, material ,thread,
head gasket compression , scatter plots of compression etc etc before they specify gasket, bolt and values. So MB totally screwed up, partially screwed up, kinda screwed up?? Are we jumping at the studs as racer boys who love the porcupine look during assembly? Has ARP specifically looked at M 156? Some knowledge , but not enough can hurt.
Has any one destructively tested the old oem and new oem in the lathe instrument to see if a weakness does exist just under the heads? Just sayin' as they say.
Some say corrosion causes the breakage. The pic I saw looked work hardened. Isn't corrosion too soon on the C 63?
How can we feel assured with the "improved" oem bolt...no failures?
The ARP stud is torqued rather than TTY? Who decides the value? The reading I have done does not show conclusive need for studs. Are the failures from hard WOT work daily, drag racing?
Pure tensile strength of bolt is not significant and the head gasket is moving around during the heat excursions. Are different head gaskets used with the studs? The head , gasket and block are squirming around and doesn't seem that studs are the cure all, though appealing.
Boiler plate says mech engineers carefully calculate bolt, material ,thread,
head gasket compression , scatter plots of compression etc etc before they specify gasket, bolt and values. So MB totally screwed up, partially screwed up, kinda screwed up?? Are we jumping at the studs as racer boys who love the porcupine look during assembly? Has ARP specifically looked at M 156? Some knowledge , but not enough can hurt.
Has any one destructively tested the old oem and new oem in the lathe instrument to see if a weakness does exist just under the heads? Just sayin' as they say.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 42
C63 AMG
Look at the cross section pics, you will see why the old ones break.
ARP hasn't touched a M156. Weistec has and did the leg work.
You don't need studs unless you are running the blower. The revised bolts are fine.
ARP hasn't touched a M156. Weistec has and did the leg work.
You don't need studs unless you are running the blower. The revised bolts are fine.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 344
Likes: 5
From: Battle Ground WA
C63AMG, NIssan NX2000, Pontiac Fiero GT
Merc , Thanks, the impression is that even the new oem is suspect. That said what is your advice to owners who do not exercise the engine as hard as others? Again this and the other thread gives the impression that it is just a matter of time, what with the examples of low mileage problems. Maybe there is a (MB) supplier quality problem mixed in? Thanks
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 42
C63 AMG
Haven't seen ONE headbolt issue in my city. The revised bolts will be fine.
We have tons of AMGs here, lots of oil $$$$.
Vancouver has had a couple break.
I had two m156s now, both with over 60,000km with the affected head bolts. Not a problem. One car I bought brand new and drove the **** out of it since it had 30km on it.
If my car was stock, Id leave them alone. But with the blower, Im going for studs. I figure its too risky.
We have tons of AMGs here, lots of oil $$$$.
Vancouver has had a couple break.
I had two m156s now, both with over 60,000km with the affected head bolts. Not a problem. One car I bought brand new and drove the **** out of it since it had 30km on it.
If my car was stock, Id leave them alone. But with the blower, Im going for studs. I figure its too risky.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 344
Likes: 5
From: Battle Ground WA
C63AMG, NIssan NX2000, Pontiac Fiero GT
Merc, Again thanks for putting some balance into these threads. It is easy to forget (as stated by others) that mostly hard core entusiast are drawn to this discussion even if they ( like me ) do not currently drive all out. Yet in aggregate what is the total of responders as a fraction of all M 156 owners? A difficlult statistic in that many (?most) victims of the headbolt/coolant issue suffer in silence and payment for remedy.
Nevertheless, this thread is very good. All of life can be reduced to statistical events, so from one angle this is just another. I have requested an oil sample kit from Blackstone and am considering periodic checks for coolant in oil, although the turn around cycles (drawing, sending , results) probably could not offset the sudden catastrophic failures some experience. In my case the C 63 is a daily driver (with great spirit) and so leakage might occur slow enough to detect in this way. Regards, motoman
Nevertheless, this thread is very good. All of life can be reduced to statistical events, so from one angle this is just another. I have requested an oil sample kit from Blackstone and am considering periodic checks for coolant in oil, although the turn around cycles (drawing, sending , results) probably could not offset the sudden catastrophic failures some experience. In my case the C 63 is a daily driver (with great spirit) and so leakage might occur slow enough to detect in this way. Regards, motoman
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
C63, C280, 2500HD, IS300
Took my car in for for smoke,rough idle, handprake loose and a broke side panel tab.
Got a call from dealer saying that the head might be leaking coolant and oil and they will tear it apart and replace all the headbolts with new update ones
)
Such a happy camper
Got a call from dealer saying that the head might be leaking coolant and oil and they will tear it apart and replace all the headbolts with new update ones
)Such a happy camper
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 10
From: San Diego/San Francisco
AMG GLC63. Audi R8
You get new lifters from the AMG SLS too.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
2007 Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG
OMG, Drove less than 200 miles then low coolant and.....
So I just got my 2007 CLS63 with 73,000 miles and loved it for a week. Then this head bolt thing has failed on mine and the expense of the fix.
I just stopped throwing up and now I am reading that MB is flipping us all off for the failure?
The car is too nice not to fix but the response from MB is ridiculous. Mine needs to be done soon too.
Subscribed.
I just stopped throwing up and now I am reading that MB is flipping us all off for the failure?
The car is too nice not to fix but the response from MB is ridiculous. Mine needs to be done soon too.
Subscribed.
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
2009 SL63
I have a 2009 SL63 with less than 30k miles. Took it into the dealer for transmission problems. After 7 weeks at the dealer service facility plus 5k in repairs, I picked it up and on the way home coolant light came on. The next business day took it back to the dealer. I was told the head gasket failed and perhaps a bent rod... Really?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
2007 Mercedes Benz CLS63 AMG
I have a 2009 SL63 with less than 30k miles. Took it into the dealer for transmission problems. After 7 weeks at the dealer service facility plus 5k in repairs, I picked it up and on the way home coolant light came on. The next business day took it back to the dealer. I was told the head gasket failed and perhaps a bent rod... Really?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Sorry man.
Last edited by Bud Wilkinson; Jan 24, 2014 at 01:04 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 42
C63 AMG
I have a 2009 SL63 with less than 30k miles. Took it into the dealer for transmission problems. After 7 weeks at the dealer service facility plus 5k in repairs, I picked it up and on the way home coolant light came on. The next business day took it back to the dealer. I was told the head gasket failed and perhaps a bent rod... Really?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 93
C63 AMG
I have a 2009 SL63 with less than 30k miles. Took it into the dealer for transmission problems. After 7 weeks at the dealer service facility plus 5k in repairs, I picked it up and on the way home coolant light came on. The next business day took it back to the dealer. I was told the head gasket failed and perhaps a bent rod... Really?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Last edited by bhamg; Jan 24, 2014 at 08:53 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
CLK63 AMG
The bent rod thing...if your head gasket went and enough coolant filled the cylinder (hydro-lock condition) it'll bend a rod. Air/fuel mixture compresses, coolant does not. In that case, something has to give and it will probably be the piston rod.
Sorry if that's stuff you already knew. In any case, this is not the first time it's happened, even if it's the first one your service rep. has seen. Keep kicking it up MB's chain of command and they'll pay for most of it...probably? Keep kicking until you find the guy high up enough who can say yes.
Sorry if that's stuff you already knew. In any case, this is not the first time it's happened, even if it's the first one your service rep. has seen. Keep kicking it up MB's chain of command and they'll pay for most of it...probably? Keep kicking until you find the guy high up enough who can say yes.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
2002 AMG C32
New owner of an '09 C63
Hi Folks,
First, I remain blown away by the collective knowledge and wisdom of this forum. I have been a lurker for many years as an '02 C32 owner (since new!) and C43 before that. You folks have a depth of experience that is just incredible.
Today I traded in the C32 (121K of wonderful, virtually carefree miles) for an '09 C63. I have read all of the posts on the head bolt issue and here is where I netted out as a result:
- my purchase is contingent on a PPI that will include a compression test and leak down test at the local MB dealer.
- I went with the aftermarket insurance that covers gasket failures regardless of cause
The car is a one-owner with just 20K miles and shows no signs of an issue - at least pre-comp/leak down test.
My questions for you pros - provided nothing comes out in the tests, should I worry about replacing the old bolts with the updated bolts? Should I just enjoy the car without worry unless I see any of the telltale signs?
It will be a daily driver with about 10K/miles per year. It will go out on a track a couple of times a year but won't really have hard duty unless you consider aggressive commuting to be hard duty. I race in a spec BMW class which covers my need for yayas so when I take the car on track it's only for a charity ride or instruction.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
- Will
First, I remain blown away by the collective knowledge and wisdom of this forum. I have been a lurker for many years as an '02 C32 owner (since new!) and C43 before that. You folks have a depth of experience that is just incredible.
Today I traded in the C32 (121K of wonderful, virtually carefree miles) for an '09 C63. I have read all of the posts on the head bolt issue and here is where I netted out as a result:
- my purchase is contingent on a PPI that will include a compression test and leak down test at the local MB dealer.
- I went with the aftermarket insurance that covers gasket failures regardless of cause
The car is a one-owner with just 20K miles and shows no signs of an issue - at least pre-comp/leak down test.
My questions for you pros - provided nothing comes out in the tests, should I worry about replacing the old bolts with the updated bolts? Should I just enjoy the car without worry unless I see any of the telltale signs?
It will be a daily driver with about 10K/miles per year. It will go out on a track a couple of times a year but won't really have hard duty unless you consider aggressive commuting to be hard duty. I race in a spec BMW class which covers my need for yayas so when I take the car on track it's only for a charity ride or instruction.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
- Will
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 815
Likes: 2
From: Fla. Snowbird.
Porsche 911 Turbo S 2014! E63S 14, Audi S8 13, CLS63 12, E550 12, C63 09, all tuned
Read this, then decide. Also ask a MB dealer to show a new bolt.
http://marcusfitzhugh.com/CLK/63.html
http://marcusfitzhugh.com/CLK/63.html
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 8
From: Sydney, Australia
2010 C63 Estate
What annoys me so much about that article, is the writer keep referring to the engines as 5.5L Supercharged, and 6.3L.....
Anyone in the know, would know they are 5.4L Supercharged, and 6.2L
Anyone in the know, would know they are 5.4L Supercharged, and 6.2L
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
c63
M156 engine failures? Cracked pistons? bent rods?
I have had very bad experiences with two 63 engines , the first was a 2008 CLK63 with 90,000 km on clock and the second a 2010 C63 limited edition with 55,000 km on the clock . I had the ClK 63 for 3 years and in that time the heads went , ie the headbolt go , rear suspension bolts pulled out and replaced twice with special tubes , ECU replaced twice , wire loom replaced , countless engine mountings replaced , my second C63 had a piston go through the block and the entire sub assembly has now been ordered from Germany and is expected soon . All my expenses have been covered by Mercedes but the denials that this is a common problem by them has been constant . I am in South Africa and recent heard of a c63 black series where 2 pistons went through block and in same case Mercedes gave the owner the run around etc . I love my cars but the inconvenience is something else
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
ML63AMG, acura nsx
For the unbelievers.....
For those of you that think that the head bolt issue is not very common, please refer to the other thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-problems.html
This is not uncommon! In fact MB is well aware of the issue but have chosen not to provide customers with the support that they deserve. This is my third mercedes and I'm hugely disappointed with the fact that the customer service is so poor. The technicians at MB denied even hearing about the issue until I described the symptoms and they were quick to tell me to tow the car in immediately. This will be most likely the last Mercedes I buy. My husband told me to get an infiniti or land Rover but I stayed loyal to MB but they didn't stay loyal to me.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-problems.html
This is not uncommon! In fact MB is well aware of the issue but have chosen not to provide customers with the support that they deserve. This is my third mercedes and I'm hugely disappointed with the fact that the customer service is so poor. The technicians at MB denied even hearing about the issue until I described the symptoms and they were quick to tell me to tow the car in immediately. This will be most likely the last Mercedes I buy. My husband told me to get an infiniti or land Rover but I stayed loyal to MB but they didn't stay loyal to me.
