OETuning + PowerPipe + AFE Filter + Charcoal Delete
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2013 C63 AMG Coupe
OETuning + PowerPipe + AFE Filter + Charcoal Delete
2013 C63 Coupe P31 with PowerPipe, AFE Dry Filter, Charcoal Delete
Here's a dyno measured at RWHP - car runs very smooth - accelerates beautifully with no hesitation or jerkiness.
Here's a dyno measured at RWHP - car runs very smooth - accelerates beautifully with no hesitation or jerkiness.
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CL63 AMG
Those rpms are way off, the numbers are not accurate. The difference gain is though. Auto wave does that all the time, dunno why it's so hard for them to just line up the redline numbers ... Basic dyno 101 stuff
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2013 C63 AMG
You'd think with the PP that you should have at least the standard C63 HP of 451, right?
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From: Texas Hill Country
2020 AMG GTR
that's not to say there isn't a difference between a 200 and 500 hp car but to pick nits over 20 hp or so can be futile.
Last edited by Higgs Boson; Feb 12, 2013 at 08:48 PM.
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2013 C63 AMG
factory rates hp at the engine. this is a chassis dyno which rates hp at the wheels after all drivetrain losses. it can vary wildly from dyno to dyno and across the country at different altitudes and weather conditions. a chassis dyno isn't necessarily that great to compare hp levels especially under such different circumstances but they are great tools for tuning in one spot, like a treadmill for cars....
that's not to say there isn't a difference between a 200 and 500 hp car but to pick nits over 20 hp or so can be futile.
that's not to say there isn't a difference between a 200 and 500 hp car but to pick nits over 20 hp or so can be futile.
I am just concerned since the Car, on paper, boasts 481 with the P31. I get it could be altitude, or heat but a drop of 65 HP even with all the add ons? To me something doesn't add up, but again, I am not a seasoned tuner nor modifier.
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c63
he just told you how it adds up. its not rated at the wheels but at the crank/engine/whatever.
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From: Texas Hill Country
2020 AMG GTR
a traditional automatic can be 18-20% and awd can be 20-25%.
if the 7 speed mct car takes 13-15% to get 480 hp to the road then you have 415 hp left by the time it is at the wheels. friction, heat, slippage, etc all contribute to drivetrain losses.
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C63 AMG
I am hella confused right now.
Shouldn't a 481 HP with an OE Tune, AFE filters and powerpipe be putting down way more than 417 at the wheels? Give or take 15 HP here or there, shouldn't that 417 kind of be standard?
Shouldn't a 481 HP with an OE Tune, AFE filters and powerpipe be putting down way more than 417 at the wheels? Give or take 15 HP here or there, shouldn't that 417 kind of be standard?
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C63 AMG
To give you an idea of drivetrain loss from the crank figures MB advertises, my 2008 C63 put out 247kw at*the wheels compared to 336kw advertisied at the engine. This figure was on a 50degree day though.
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2013 C63 AMG
The seasoned guys in this forum, as a Newbie, can someone explain and insert footnotes to where accurate information is that helps explain HP loss from the advertised auto, whether it be due to temp, altitude or it being taken at the wheels or crankshaft.
I am not looking to discredit this particular thread, I am genuinely interested in understanding how something like this thread happens.
Thanks
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'15 VW GTI
This really isn't that complicated. For the 7G auto and I believe the MCT is about the same, driveline loss is about 18%. So with 451 rated HP at the crank, that translates to about 370 HP at the wheels. So most tunes and P31 package get the M156 up to, at least on most dynojets, to about 420 HP at the wheels, so, 512 HP at the crank.
Crank HP*0.82=wheel HP
Crank HP*0.82=wheel HP
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C63 AMG
This really isn't that complicated. For the 7G auto and I believe the MCT is about the same, driveline loss is about 18%. So with 451 rated HP at the crank, that translates to about 370 HP at the wheels. So most tunes and P31 package get the M156 up to, at least on most dynojets, to about 420 HP at the wheels, so, 512 HP at the crank.
Crank HP*0.82=wheel HP
Crank HP*0.82=wheel HP
Not sure about all this but would like to find out. Thanks
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From: PNW
'15 VW GTI
The P31, and this is covered in several older threads that can be found with a google search, is basically a factory offered tune. MB rates it at 481 at the crank, but most will tell you, and I've seen one on the dyno, that is underrated, should be more like 500-510. The dyno runs I witnessed on a dynojet were all in the 420s.
The dyno graph in this thread is from a dyno dynamics, so that 417 whp might be something completely different on a dynojet, I would guess a little higher. From what I've seen dynojets tend to give numbers that you would expect, whereas a mustang dyno will read much less, for whatever reason.
Dynos are really only good for evaluating mods/tuning, that is, how much hp did you make? You should use the same dyno, similar conditions and setup, except obviously for what you modified on the car.
Comparing different dynos with similar mods is pointless. So, back to the beginning, I don't know if 417 whp for the mods listed is good on a dyno dynamics. You would need to know what that car pulled stock on the same dyno, and the delta would give you the answer.
Looking at the graph again, and assuming that the lower curve is the stock pull, then about 25 whp gain for the P31, seems about right.
Last edited by Even Money; Feb 12, 2013 at 11:42 PM. Reason: 2nd look at graph
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C63 AMG
Thanks Even Money,
So if the P31 is basically a factory tune, why can't we simply do this P31 tune on our car and then follow it through with an aftermarket tune which OE / Eurocharge etc do for the P31? So this is like doing two tunes which is basically what you've said the P31 is?
Won't that get more HP?
Or are these companies doing tunes on the P31 not really doing tunes?
I would imagine the P31 with a OE tune will have more HP crank/wheels, than a 451hp C63 with an OE tune?
So if the P31 is basically a factory tune, why can't we simply do this P31 tune on our car and then follow it through with an aftermarket tune which OE / Eurocharge etc do for the P31? So this is like doing two tunes which is basically what you've said the P31 is?
Won't that get more HP?
Or are these companies doing tunes on the P31 not really doing tunes?
I would imagine the P31 with a OE tune will have more HP crank/wheels, than a 451hp C63 with an OE tune?
I think I know what you're trying to say. After tune, non P31, should be about 510 at the crank, as I posted above.
The P31, and this is covered in several older threads that can be found with a google search, is basically a factory offered tune. MB rates it at 481 at the crank, but most will tell you, and I've seen one on the dyno, that is underrated, should be more like 500-510. The dyno runs I witnessed on a dynojet were all in the 420s.
The dyno graph in this thread is from a dyno dynamics, so that 417 whp might be something completely different on a dynojet, I would guess a little higher. From what I've seen dynojets tend to give numbers that you would expect, whereas a mustang dyno will read much less, for whatever reason.
Dynos are really only good for evaluating mods/tuning, that is, how much hp did you make? You should use the same dyno, similar conditions and setup, except obviously for what you modified on the car.
Comparing different dynos with similar mods is pointless. So, back to the beginning, I don't know if 417 whp for the mods listed is good on a dyno dynamics. You would need to know what that car pulled stock on the same dyno, and the delta would give you the answer.
Looking at the graph again, and assuming that the lower curve is the stock pull, then about 25 whp gain for the P31, seems about right.
The P31, and this is covered in several older threads that can be found with a google search, is basically a factory offered tune. MB rates it at 481 at the crank, but most will tell you, and I've seen one on the dyno, that is underrated, should be more like 500-510. The dyno runs I witnessed on a dynojet were all in the 420s.
The dyno graph in this thread is from a dyno dynamics, so that 417 whp might be something completely different on a dynojet, I would guess a little higher. From what I've seen dynojets tend to give numbers that you would expect, whereas a mustang dyno will read much less, for whatever reason.
Dynos are really only good for evaluating mods/tuning, that is, how much hp did you make? You should use the same dyno, similar conditions and setup, except obviously for what you modified on the car.
Comparing different dynos with similar mods is pointless. So, back to the beginning, I don't know if 417 whp for the mods listed is good on a dyno dynamics. You would need to know what that car pulled stock on the same dyno, and the delta would give you the answer.
Looking at the graph again, and assuming that the lower curve is the stock pull, then about 25 whp gain for the P31, seems about right.
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From: PNW
'15 VW GTI
Thanks Even Money,
So if the P31 is basically a factory tune, why can't we simply do this P31 tune on our car and then follow it through with an aftermarket tune which OE / Eurocharge etc do for the P31? So this is like doing two tunes which is basically what you've said the P31 is?
Won't that get more HP?
Or are these companies doing tunes on the P31 not really doing tunes?
I would imagine the P31 with a OE tune will have more HP crank/wheels, than a 451hp C63 with an OE tune?
So if the P31 is basically a factory tune, why can't we simply do this P31 tune on our car and then follow it through with an aftermarket tune which OE / Eurocharge etc do for the P31? So this is like doing two tunes which is basically what you've said the P31 is?
Won't that get more HP?
Or are these companies doing tunes on the P31 not really doing tunes?
I would imagine the P31 with a OE tune will have more HP crank/wheels, than a 451hp C63 with an OE tune?
Differences arise between the AMG models due to different engine internals(might free up a few extra HP, such as the P31), larger factory exhaust, E class is larger than C class, or intake design and factory exhaust and maybe a few other things, SLS.
You can't get the P31 tune from MB, unless you own a P31 car. You can't simply have them flash a P31 tune onto your ECU as it won't match the VIN.
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From: Orange County CA
CLS63S
Thanks Even Money,
So if the P31 is basically a factory tune, why can't we simply do this P31 tune on our car and then follow it through with an aftermarket tune which OE / Eurocharge etc do for the P31? So this is like doing two tunes which is basically what you've said the P31 is?
Won't that get more HP?
Or are these companies doing tunes on the P31 not really doing tunes?
I would imagine the P31 with a OE tune will have more HP crank/wheels, than a 451hp C63 with an OE tune?
So if the P31 is basically a factory tune, why can't we simply do this P31 tune on our car and then follow it through with an aftermarket tune which OE / Eurocharge etc do for the P31? So this is like doing two tunes which is basically what you've said the P31 is?
Won't that get more HP?
Or are these companies doing tunes on the P31 not really doing tunes?
I would imagine the P31 with a OE tune will have more HP crank/wheels, than a 451hp C63 with an OE tune?
video proof
umad?
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BMW m5 2013
I was leaving school and I went by... that Burrito burger place by Fullerton College and I saw a car with the same specs as yours. Wasn't you by chance was it? 0_0 If it helps I was the stupid kid who zoomed past you on the other side of the street in a 135is lol
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2009 C63, 2000 ML 430, 1994 Del Sol Vtec
Regarding Dyno tuning, don't look at the actual WHP/WTQ numbers. You want to look at the difference between the two curves. The Dyno is just a tool. Don't take the numbers of any Dyno at face value as they vary greatly.
