Jason Anthony

2013 C63 Coupe P31 with PowerPipe, AFE Dry Filter, Charcoal Delete

Here's a dyno measured at RWHP - car runs very smooth - accelerates beautifully with no hesitation or jerkiness.

Aresh

How much power did you gain? Looks like the power pipe actually adds power


Posted from Mbworld.org App for Android

kenster96

Hey I was thinking about buying some afe filters, but how do you like them? Also do you know if the charcoal deletes would let me pass my smog checks? (Live in california)

flipdsm

Dyno with OE tune?

ML63 AMG

Those rpms are way off, the numbers are not accurate. The difference gain is though. Auto wave does that all the time, dunno why it's so hard for them to just line up the redline numbers ... Basic dyno 101 stuff

Vic55

Good catch--- the rpms are too high...

htoudiee

Can you explain which graph is for what configuration?

SaintC63

You'd think with the PP that you should have at least the standard C63 HP of 451, right?

Higgs Boson

factory rates hp at the engine. this is a chassis dyno which rates hp at the wheels after all drivetrain losses. it can vary wildly from dyno to dyno and across the country at different altitudes and weather conditions. a chassis dyno isn't necessarily that great to compare hp levels especially under such different circumstances but they are great tools for tuning in one spot, like a treadmill for cars....

that's not to say there isn't a difference between a 200 and 500 hp car but to pick nits over 20 hp or so can be futile.

SaintC63

Thanks for the clarification.

I am just concerned since the Car, on paper, boasts 481 with the P31. I get it could be altitude, or heat but a drop of 65 HP even with all the add ons? To me something doesn't add up, but again, I am not a seasoned tuner nor modifier.

_timothy

he just told you how it adds up. its not rated at the wheels but at the crank/engine/whatever.

Higgs Boson

a traditional manual transmission car can take 10-12% to put the power down to the road.

a traditional automatic can be 18-20% and awd can be 20-25%.

if the 7 speed mct car takes 13-15% to get 480 hp to the road then you have 415 hp left by the time it is at the wheels. friction, heat, slippage, etc all contribute to drivetrain losses.

C-63AMG

I am hella confused right now.

Shouldn't a 481 HP with an OE Tune, AFE filters and powerpipe be putting down way more than 417 at the wheels? Give or take 15 HP here or there, shouldn't that 417 kind of be standard?

charliekay

To give you an idea of drivetrain loss from the crank figures MB advertises, my 2008 C63 put out 247kw at*the wheels compared to 336kw advertisied at the engine. This figure was on a 50degree day though.

charliekay

Add some kw because of the hot day that's still a 23-25% drivetrain loss.

SaintC63

I'm with you on that one.

The seasoned guys in this forum, as a Newbie, can someone explain and insert footnotes to where accurate information is that helps explain HP loss from the advertised auto, whether it be due to temp, altitude or it being taken at the wheels or crankshaft.

I am not looking to discredit this particular thread, I am genuinely interested in understanding how something like this thread happens.

Thanks

Even Money

This really isn't that complicated. For the 7G auto and I believe the MCT is about the same, driveline loss is about 18%. So with 451 rated HP at the crank, that translates to about 370 HP at the wheels. So most tunes and P31 package get the M156 up to, at least on most dynojets, to about 420 HP at the wheels, so, 512 HP at the crank.

Crank HP*0.82=wheel HP

C-63AMG

Hey bud, don't all these tuning companies claim / and dyno the stock 451 (non p31) to 510 hp at the crank? This is a P31. Can you kindly explain please. Not sure about all this but would like to find out. Thanks

Even Money

I think I know what you're trying to say. After tune, non P31, should be about 510 at the crank, as I posted above.

The P31, and this is covered in several older threads that can be found with a google search, is basically a factory offered tune. MB rates it at 481 at the crank, but most will tell you, and I've seen one on the dyno, that is underrated, should be more like 500-510. The dyno runs I witnessed on a dynojet were all in the 420s.

The dyno graph in this thread is from a dyno dynamics, so that 417 whp might be something completely different on a dynojet, I would guess a little higher. From what I've seen dynojets tend to give numbers that you would expect, whereas a mustang dyno will read much less, for whatever reason.

Dynos are really only good for evaluating mods/tuning, that is, how much hp did you make? You should use the same dyno, similar conditions and setup, except obviously for what you modified on the car.

Comparing different dynos with similar mods is pointless. So, back to the beginning, I don't know if 417 whp for the mods listed is good on a dyno dynamics. You would need to know what that car pulled stock on the same dyno, and the delta would give you the answer.

Looking at the graph again, and assuming that the lower curve is the stock pull, then about 25 whp gain for the P31, seems about right.

C-63AMG

Thanks Even Money,

So if the P31 is basically a factory tune, why can't we simply do this P31 tune on our car and then follow it through with an aftermarket tune which OE / Eurocharge etc do for the P31? So this is like doing two tunes which is basically what you've said the P31 is?

Won't that get more HP?

Or are these companies doing tunes on the P31 not really doing tunes?

I would imagine the P31 with a OE tune will have more HP crank/wheels, than a 451hp C63 with an OE tune?

Even Money

You can tune any M156 and should only need to do so once or again as you change hardware mods. The P31 simply has a higher starting point, so much less room to improve. Once you adjust the fuel/air, timing, throttle opening, etc., all M156 motors should have about the same output, basically.
Differences arise between the AMG models due to different engine internals(might free up a few extra HP, such as the P31), larger factory exhaust, E class is larger than C class, or intake design and factory exhaust and maybe a few other things, SLS.


You can't get the P31 tune from MB, unless you own a P31 car. You can't simply have them flash a P31 tune onto your ECU as it won't match the VIN.

johnnyblaze

P31 is really just a moderate tune on a stock C63. Sure you have lighter stronger internals, better brakes, sit a tad lower, and have a flashy cf interior. But its still the same Car. Tune to tune its the same thing.


video proof

umad?

LosalPD

I was leaving school and I went by... that Burrito burger place by Fullerton College and I saw a car with the same specs as yours. Wasn't you by chance was it? 0_0 If it helps I was the stupid kid who zoomed past you on the other side of the street in a 135is lol

InTheBenz0

Do you like the AFE dry filters? Saw someone else ask, but no answer.

b16

Regarding Dyno tuning, don't look at the actual WHP/WTQ numbers. You want to look at the difference between the two curves. The Dyno is just a tool. Don't take the numbers of any Dyno at face value as they vary greatly.