BS for sale
#26
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#28
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It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.
#29
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#30
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2008 G55, 2012 C63 BS
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or any clue about the used BS market. Used C BS 's with aero package are still selling for MSRP or higher. Non-aero package cars are not in high demand and are selling for about $15k under msrp.
It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.
It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.
#31
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or any clue about the used BS market. Used C BS 's with aero package are still selling for MSRP or higher. Non-aero package cars are not in high demand and are selling for about $15k under msrp.
It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.
It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.
But in general, you will be hard pressed to get any money you put into a car when selling, unless you find an enthusiast who really loves EXACTLY what you did to the car - and even then, your lucky if you recoup 25% of mods. Most don't get anything for mods.
Case & Point - I had a 2012 Charger SRT8 that I built up with a 426 Stroker, Supercharger, Built Tranny, Built Axles, Roll Cage, etc... everything. Thing put down 700rwhp & and ran 10's.
I put it up for sale on all the HEMI forums and had mild interest at best. I ultimately had to return it back to stock and get rid of it that way in order to get any money back on those mods.
Now the C63 Black Series is different due to being limited production... so sellers can name their price and see how the market responds.
If I personally was seriously looking into a Black Series, I wouldn't pay for any mods the previous owner did. I'd want one stock. I actually stopped considering one due to extensive mods. The "market" in general would rather prefer the car in stock fashion... that way if they do want to mod, its mods of their choosing, not someone elses. Half the fun in modding is researching all the possibilities.
Last edited by mdgrwl; 12-10-2013 at 08:52 AM.
#32
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2021 Porsche TTS
No need to be an a$$.
I have an idea what I am talking about. Before buying the CLS, I debated buying a CBS and I know what the market was. The market now is even softer.
CBS selling for MSRP . What do you think of this one asking $119K... I bet you could get it for $115K all day. It has all the goodies including matte wheels and cf interior. 1500 miles, the car is basically brand new.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...gIndex=2&Log=0.
There are a few around S Florida that would sell for less than $100K for non areo and I know friends that have bought CBS for 100K even.
You just have to know how to shop. Just because you have money burning in your wallet does NOT make you the expert. You have to be patient and let the seller hang in there.
If someone wants to buy your car for 180K, more power to you, however the reality for most cars that have been heavily modded is that you will rarely get any money for your mods.
You really take us for fools when you add 15K in wheels or 10K in Carbon fiber. No one pays MSRP these days for aftermarket parts.
I have an idea what I am talking about. Before buying the CLS, I debated buying a CBS and I know what the market was. The market now is even softer.
CBS selling for MSRP . What do you think of this one asking $119K... I bet you could get it for $115K all day. It has all the goodies including matte wheels and cf interior. 1500 miles, the car is basically brand new.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...gIndex=2&Log=0.
There are a few around S Florida that would sell for less than $100K for non areo and I know friends that have bought CBS for 100K even.
You just have to know how to shop. Just because you have money burning in your wallet does NOT make you the expert. You have to be patient and let the seller hang in there.
If someone wants to buy your car for 180K, more power to you, however the reality for most cars that have been heavily modded is that you will rarely get any money for your mods.
You really take us for fools when you add 15K in wheels or 10K in Carbon fiber. No one pays MSRP these days for aftermarket parts.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or any clue about the used BS market. Used C BS 's with aero package are still selling for MSRP or higher. Non-aero package cars are not in high demand and are selling for about $15k under msrp.
It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.
It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.
Last edited by emericr; 12-10-2013 at 09:24 AM.
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
You have to put this one into context. Graham spared no expense on his car and rarely drove it. To anyone in the market looking to get a BS and to do the same mods, that car is a steal, even if you save $5k. because you don't have to waste your time in shops, ordering parts and negotiating on when someone can work on your car.
You can sit there and compare it to the other ones for sale in the Trader, but they have no impact on what this car is worth and what someone is willing to pay for it.
You can sit there and compare it to the other ones for sale in the Trader, but they have no impact on what this car is worth and what someone is willing to pay for it.
#34
You have to put this one into context. Graham spared no expense on his car and rarely drove it. To anyone in the market looking to get a BS and to do the same mods, that car is a steal, even if you save $5k. because you don't have to waste your time in shops, ordering parts and negotiating on when someone can work on your car.
You can sit there and compare it to the other ones for sale in the Trader, but they have no impact on what this car is worth and what someone is willing to pay for it.
You can sit there and compare it to the other ones for sale in the Trader, but they have no impact on what this car is worth and what someone is willing to pay for it.
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
No need to be an a$$.
I have an idea what I am talking about. Before buying the CLS, I debated buying a CBS and I know what the market was. The market now is even softer.
CBS selling for MSRP . What do you think of this one asking $119K... I bet you could get it for $115K all day. It has all the goodies including matte wheels and cf interior. 1500 miles, the car is basically brand new.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...gIndex=2&Log=0.
There are a few around S Florida that would sell for less than $100K for non areo and I know friends that have bought CBS for 100K even.
You just have to know how to shop. Just because you have money burning in your wallet does NOT make you the expert. You have to be patient and let the seller hang in there.
If someone wants to buy your car for 180K, more power to you, however the reality for most cars that have been heavily modded is that you will rarely get any money for your mods.
You really take us for fools when you add 15K in wheels or 10K in Carbon fiber. No one pays MSRP these days for aftermarket parts.
I have an idea what I am talking about. Before buying the CLS, I debated buying a CBS and I know what the market was. The market now is even softer.
CBS selling for MSRP . What do you think of this one asking $119K... I bet you could get it for $115K all day. It has all the goodies including matte wheels and cf interior. 1500 miles, the car is basically brand new.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...gIndex=2&Log=0.
There are a few around S Florida that would sell for less than $100K for non areo and I know friends that have bought CBS for 100K even.
You just have to know how to shop. Just because you have money burning in your wallet does NOT make you the expert. You have to be patient and let the seller hang in there.
If someone wants to buy your car for 180K, more power to you, however the reality for most cars that have been heavily modded is that you will rarely get any money for your mods.
You really take us for fools when you add 15K in wheels or 10K in Carbon fiber. No one pays MSRP these days for aftermarket parts.
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
It depends on the market.
But in general, you will be hard pressed to get any money you put into a car when selling, unless you find an enthusiast who really loves EXACTLY what you did to the car - and even then, your lucky if you recoup 25% of mods. Most don't get anything for mods.
Case & Point - I had a 2012 Charger SRT8 that I built up with a 426 Stroker, Supercharger, Built Tranny, Built Axles, Roll Cage, etc... everything. Thing put down 700rwhp & and ran 10's.
I put it up for sale on all the HEMI forums and had mild interest at best. I ultimately had to return it back to stock and get rid of it that way in order to get any money back on those mods.
Now the C63 Black Series is different due to being limited production... so sellers can name their price and see how the market responds.
If I personally was seriously looking into a Black Series, I wouldn't pay for any mods the previous owner did. I'd want one stock. I actually stopped considering one due to extensive mods. The "market" in general would rather prefer the car in stock fashion... that way if they do want to mod, its mods of their choosing, not someone elses. Half the fun in modding is researching all the possibilities.
But in general, you will be hard pressed to get any money you put into a car when selling, unless you find an enthusiast who really loves EXACTLY what you did to the car - and even then, your lucky if you recoup 25% of mods. Most don't get anything for mods.
Case & Point - I had a 2012 Charger SRT8 that I built up with a 426 Stroker, Supercharger, Built Tranny, Built Axles, Roll Cage, etc... everything. Thing put down 700rwhp & and ran 10's.
I put it up for sale on all the HEMI forums and had mild interest at best. I ultimately had to return it back to stock and get rid of it that way in order to get any money back on those mods.
Now the C63 Black Series is different due to being limited production... so sellers can name their price and see how the market responds.
If I personally was seriously looking into a Black Series, I wouldn't pay for any mods the previous owner did. I'd want one stock. I actually stopped considering one due to extensive mods. The "market" in general would rather prefer the car in stock fashion... that way if they do want to mod, its mods of their choosing, not someone elses. Half the fun in modding is researching all the possibilities.
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Most guys don't have the bank to drop for everything at once....that's why they build cars in increments.
We're talking about a different breed of player here. There aren't catalogues full of parts for these cars. to make them put down that kind of power...you can really only go in a couple of directions
#38
MBWorld Fanatic!
......What do you think of this one asking $119K... I bet you could get it for $115K all day. It has all the goodies including matte wheels and cf interior. 1500 miles, the car is basically brand new.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...hRadius=0&mmt=[MB[C63AMG[]][]]&minPrice=90000&listingId=353868286&listingIndex=2 &Log=0.
.....
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...hRadius=0&mmt=[MB[C63AMG[]][]]&minPrice=90000&listingId=353868286&listingIndex=2 &Log=0.
.....
Now It's @ 120k$. Maybe this time they'll have more interests.
#39
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2021 Porsche TTS
Exactly my point. The CBS market is getting softer and cars are now selling like regular cars ie depreciation is taking its toll.
I agree that there are very few CBS which will lead to dealers trying to sell first at a high price. Time and patience is your friend if you are in the market.
I agree that there are very few CBS which will lead to dealers trying to sell first at a high price. Time and patience is your friend if you are in the market.
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
Not to mention that if you bought a used modded car, you are taking a leap of faith that the person: a) didn't beat the car into the ground; b) have mods that were installed incorrectly/unprofessionally, thus increasing the probability of future repair costs and warranty concerns. However, with a name like Rahal...that carries a lot more cache and probably will evoke more confidence in how things were installed on the car and how it was treated by the owner.
#41
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#42
I've been in the mod game for a long time. I've had them all. Lingenfelter, Renntech, Kleemann, Heffner, Hennessey, and Evolution Motorsports. My last heavily modified car was a 1000HP Porsche GT2 built by Evolution Motorsports. I had at least $150k into this car not including the car.
All of the above had one thing in common. I got killed when trying to sell them. I'll argue that modified cars are ultimately worth less than they are stock. I wouldn't touch a car that was modified by someone else. Modified cars are typically driven hard and anyone who owns, or has owned a heavily modified car knows they can have a few "quirks".
Weistec sounds promising but you can't call them proven. I've heard an equal number of success stories as I have failure stories. Most people who spend big bucks on these cars aren't members of forums and don't post. I rarely post. You don't see a long list of cars that I own or have owned in the past. I'm not much into sharing or discussing finances. Once you've invested big bucks with a tuner on a heavily modified car you're committed. You're at the tuners mercy. It's not unheard of for a tuner to refuse support if you take your complaint to a public forum. So, we never truly know how many issues a tuner may have in the real world. Now, buy a second hand tuner car! Support really goes to hell.
I've learned to only work with shops that are local to me. I live in Denver and use Kleemann exclusively. They've been great. Good products but, most important of all, excellent customer service and follow through. There are a lot of good products out there but, in my opinion, very few shops that understand the fine art of customer service.
I had a great experience with Kleemann and Renntech. I really enjoy working with Brandon and Cory from Kleemann, they're good guys. My Heffner Viper had some issues but, for the most part, it was pretty reliable. Hennessey is a crook. And EVOMS is hands down the worst big tuner that I've used. Their products are OK but their service is horrendous. They had my Cayenne and GT2 for over a year and getting them to respond to emails and voice mails is impossible. I actually had to fly down there to figure out what was going on with my GT2. It was like a hostage situation.
The CBS is a GREAT car but it will depreciate like all AMG's. This time next year they'll be a steal, even cars with the aero package.
All of the above had one thing in common. I got killed when trying to sell them. I'll argue that modified cars are ultimately worth less than they are stock. I wouldn't touch a car that was modified by someone else. Modified cars are typically driven hard and anyone who owns, or has owned a heavily modified car knows they can have a few "quirks".
Weistec sounds promising but you can't call them proven. I've heard an equal number of success stories as I have failure stories. Most people who spend big bucks on these cars aren't members of forums and don't post. I rarely post. You don't see a long list of cars that I own or have owned in the past. I'm not much into sharing or discussing finances. Once you've invested big bucks with a tuner on a heavily modified car you're committed. You're at the tuners mercy. It's not unheard of for a tuner to refuse support if you take your complaint to a public forum. So, we never truly know how many issues a tuner may have in the real world. Now, buy a second hand tuner car! Support really goes to hell.
I've learned to only work with shops that are local to me. I live in Denver and use Kleemann exclusively. They've been great. Good products but, most important of all, excellent customer service and follow through. There are a lot of good products out there but, in my opinion, very few shops that understand the fine art of customer service.
I had a great experience with Kleemann and Renntech. I really enjoy working with Brandon and Cory from Kleemann, they're good guys. My Heffner Viper had some issues but, for the most part, it was pretty reliable. Hennessey is a crook. And EVOMS is hands down the worst big tuner that I've used. Their products are OK but their service is horrendous. They had my Cayenne and GT2 for over a year and getting them to respond to emails and voice mails is impossible. I actually had to fly down there to figure out what was going on with my GT2. It was like a hostage situation.
The CBS is a GREAT car but it will depreciate like all AMG's. This time next year they'll be a steal, even cars with the aero package.
#43
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#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here comes 2014.
If someone hypothetically didn't sell a 2012 for 200k with any mods available then they have either lost all sense of reality or maybe they will just continue to perpetuate a lost sense of perceived value.
Either way these cars will unfortunately be obsolete in 2 years with the turbo tech that's coming next year.
Good luck holding these cars for too long.
If someone hypothetically didn't sell a 2012 for 200k with any mods available then they have either lost all sense of reality or maybe they will just continue to perpetuate a lost sense of perceived value.
Either way these cars will unfortunately be obsolete in 2 years with the turbo tech that's coming next year.
Good luck holding these cars for too long.
#45
I've been in the mod game for a long time. I've had them all. Lingenfelter, Renntech, Kleemann, Heffner, Hennessey, and Evolution Motorsports. My last heavily modified car was a 1000HP Porsche GT2 built by Evolution Motorsports. I had at least $150k into this car not including the car.
All of the above had one thing in common. I got killed when trying to sell them. I'll argue that modified cars are ultimately worth less than they are stock. I wouldn't touch a car that was modified by someone else. Modified cars are typically driven hard and anyone who owns, or has owned a heavily modified car knows they can have a few "quirks".
Weistec sounds promising but you can't call them proven. I've heard an equal number of success stories as I have failure stories. Most people who spend big bucks on these cars aren't members of forums and don't post. I rarely post. You don't see a long list of cars that I own or have owned in the past. I'm not much into sharing or discussing finances. Once you've invested big bucks with a tuner on a heavily modified car you're committed. You're at the tuners mercy. It's not unheard of for a tuner to refuse support if you take your complaint to a public forum. So, we never truly know how many issues a tuner may have in the real world. Now, buy a second hand tuner car! Support really goes to hell.
I've learned to only work with shops that are local to me. I live in Denver and use Kleemann exclusively. They've been great. Good products but, most important of all, excellent customer service and follow through. There are a lot of good products out there but, in my opinion, very few shops that understand the fine art of customer service.
All of the above had one thing in common. I got killed when trying to sell them. I'll argue that modified cars are ultimately worth less than they are stock. I wouldn't touch a car that was modified by someone else. Modified cars are typically driven hard and anyone who owns, or has owned a heavily modified car knows they can have a few "quirks".
Weistec sounds promising but you can't call them proven. I've heard an equal number of success stories as I have failure stories. Most people who spend big bucks on these cars aren't members of forums and don't post. I rarely post. You don't see a long list of cars that I own or have owned in the past. I'm not much into sharing or discussing finances. Once you've invested big bucks with a tuner on a heavily modified car you're committed. You're at the tuners mercy. It's not unheard of for a tuner to refuse support if you take your complaint to a public forum. So, we never truly know how many issues a tuner may have in the real world. Now, buy a second hand tuner car! Support really goes to hell.
I've learned to only work with shops that are local to me. I live in Denver and use Kleemann exclusively. They've been great. Good products but, most important of all, excellent customer service and follow through. There are a lot of good products out there but, in my opinion, very few shops that understand the fine art of customer service.
As far as the high rollers in this thread swearing up and down that tuner life is perfect and their modded cars are "well worth every penny even sold used" are full of crap with your "its a different league" garbage. If you mean "different league" as in your future buyers are retarded idiots who don't know a huge risk when it slaps them in the face - sure. But I, for one second, wouldn't touch one of these modded cars, even if they were sold at MSRP.
And one other thing - its 100% true once you "partner" with a tuner, your in bed with them basically for the life of that car. Not all experience are negative, some can be great. But even if they are great, do you really need to have the tuners name all over your car? Like, did they pay you to be a driving advertisement for them? They just made your car their company advertising car - and your stupid enough to of agree'd. Or if you actually LIKE having Weistec plastered all over your car, you have no taste.
Last edited by mdgrwl; 12-12-2013 at 11:14 AM.
#46
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here comes 2014.
If someone hypothetically didn't sell a 2012 for 200k with any mods available then they have either lost all sense of reality or maybe they will just continue to perpetuate a lost sense of perceived value.
Either way these cars will unfortunately be obsolete in 2 years with the turbo tech that's coming next year.
Good luck holding these cars for too long.
If someone hypothetically didn't sell a 2012 for 200k with any mods available then they have either lost all sense of reality or maybe they will just continue to perpetuate a lost sense of perceived value.
Either way these cars will unfortunately be obsolete in 2 years with the turbo tech that's coming next year.
Good luck holding these cars for too long.
You are on the mark with your "perceived value" comment, my perceived value is probably different than 90% of the guys on this board. I took a $300K SLS BS and voided the warranty the day I took delivery then bolted on another $60K in mods and didn't hesitate one second to do it. Over on AMG PL some of the AMG purists said I was nuts, "I ruined a collectors item" while others praised me for pushing the envelope. Bottom line is that everyone's perceived value is going to vary on their particular situation.
#49
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