jrcart

He traded it in for VERY good money and the new buyer paid over $175k us dollars for the car.

mdgrwl

Thats cool. You got him on speed dial too?

jrcart

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about or any clue about the used BS market. Used C BS 's with aero package are still selling for MSRP or higher. Non-aero package cars are not in high demand and are selling for about $15k under msrp.

It would take well over $170k to reproduce Grahams car today, even if you started with a used car, it had $10k in interior cf, $20k in Weistec goodies and $15k in wheels and tires plus thousands in labor. It would cost you over $200k to reproduce my C BS and I have turned down legit offers for that amount for my car so that is obviously what the market is supporting right now.

jrcart

Yep, texted him just yesterday.

G55AMG

I agree with you 100%

mdgrwl

It depends on the market.

But in general, you will be hard pressed to get any money you put into a car when selling, unless you find an enthusiast who really loves EXACTLY what you did to the car - and even then, your lucky if you recoup 25% of mods. Most don't get anything for mods.

Case & Point - I had a 2012 Charger SRT8 that I built up with a 426 Stroker, Supercharger, Built Tranny, Built Axles, Roll Cage, etc... everything. Thing put down 700rwhp & and ran 10's.

I put it up for sale on all the HEMI forums and had mild interest at best. I ultimately had to return it back to stock and get rid of it that way in order to get any money back on those mods.

Now the C63 Black Series is different due to being limited production... so sellers can name their price and see how the market responds.

If I personally was seriously looking into a Black Series, I wouldn't pay for any mods the previous owner did. I'd want one stock. I actually stopped considering one due to extensive mods. The "market" in general would rather prefer the car in stock fashion... that way if they do want to mod, its mods of their choosing, not someone elses. Half the fun in modding is researching all the possibilities.

emericr

No need to be an a$$.
I have an idea what I am talking about. Before buying the CLS, I debated buying a CBS and I know what the market was. The market now is even softer.
CBS selling for MSRP . What do you think of this one asking $119K... I bet you could get it for $115K all day. It has all the goodies including matte wheels and cf interior. 1500 miles, the car is basically brand new.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...gIndex=2&Log=0.
There are a few around S Florida that would sell for less than $100K for non areo and I know friends that have bought CBS for 100K even.
You just have to know how to shop. Just because you have money burning in your wallet does NOT make you the expert. You have to be patient and let the seller hang in there.
If someone wants to buy your car for 180K, more power to you, however the reality for most cars that have been heavily modded is that you will rarely get any money for your mods.
You really take us for fools when you add 15K in wheels or 10K in Carbon fiber. No one pays MSRP these days for aftermarket parts.

callmiro

You have to put this one into context. Graham spared no expense on his car and rarely drove it. To anyone in the market looking to get a BS and to do the same mods, that car is a steal, even if you save $5k. because you don't have to waste your time in shops, ordering parts and negotiating on when someone can work on your car.


You can sit there and compare it to the other ones for sale in the Trader, but they have no impact on what this car is worth and what someone is willing to pay for it.

mdgrwl

Couldn't disagree more. Shopping for mods is most of the fun. 99 out of 100 true car enthusiast would rather mod & build up a car themselves vs. buying someone elses decisions.

jrcart

Jump on it, at $119k it is about $8,000 under MSRP and the first one I have seen listed for under MSRP. I don't doubt you on the non-aero cars, those have been selling for under MSRP for quite some time.

jrcart

I am very well aware of mod cost vs mod value, and you are correct about mod resale value being about 25% of actual cost. However we are not talking about a Charger or Mustang here. We are talking about a rare C BS with a motor built by a top of the line tuner. Look at used Lingenfelter cars, used UGR cars and used Calloway cars, they all bring big dollars. Sure, some people will say we hurt the value of these limited production cars by modding them, 20 years from now I would agree but right now these cars can not be called collectors items. I think Wesitec has proven that they have the "hot set-up" on these C BS's right now and for someone in the market for a SC'ed C BS what better place to start looking than for one that is already done? Believe me, I have been the test dummy for the 63 platform since day 1 dating back to my first round of extensive mods with evosport. I don't always like being the one being the test mule. Some people like instant gratification and want to buy a turn key car NOW. I will agree with you that it is a very limited audience of buyers looking to spend $170K plus on a modded C BS but trust me there are buyers out there that just want to do the deal and have a transported pull up to their home and unload a car that is 100% done. I recieved one legitimate offer at an airstrip event for my car for $200K and when I told him the car was not for sale he asked me how much it would take for me to sell it and I said nothing, I do not need the money but I would be glad to give you my Wesitec invoice and list of mods so you could build one just like it. I also recieved two inquiries from the UAE for $200K, so there are buyers out there. I was kicking around the idea of a UGR 458 a couple years ago and I would have purchased used one simply because the wait for a new one was so long.

callmiro

Most guys don't have the bank to drop for everything at once....that's why they build cars in increments.


We're talking about a different breed of player here. There aren't catalogues full of parts for these cars. to make them put down that kind of power...you can really only go in a couple of directions

abcut973

That car has been on the market for a while now. I remember seeing it at 139k$ when the dealer first posted the ad. Then it went down to 123k$ last time i checked which was probably a month or so ago.
Now It's @ 120k$. Maybe this time they'll have more interests.

emericr

Exactly my point. The CBS market is getting softer and cars are now selling like regular cars ie depreciation is taking its toll.
I agree that there are very few CBS which will lead to dealers trying to sell first at a high price. Time and patience is your friend if you are in the market.

Pertplus

Not to mention that if you bought a used modded car, you are taking a leap of faith that the person: a) didn't beat the car into the ground; b) have mods that were installed incorrectly/unprofessionally, thus increasing the probability of future repair costs and warranty concerns. However, with a name like Rahal...that carries a lot more cache and probably will evoke more confidence in how things were installed on the car and how it was treated by the owner.

jrcart

My cars only get driven to church on Sundays

G55K

I've been in the mod game for a long time. I've had them all. Lingenfelter, Renntech, Kleemann, Heffner, Hennessey, and Evolution Motorsports. My last heavily modified car was a 1000HP Porsche GT2 built by Evolution Motorsports. I had at least $150k into this car not including the car.

All of the above had one thing in common. I got killed when trying to sell them. I'll argue that modified cars are ultimately worth less than they are stock. I wouldn't touch a car that was modified by someone else. Modified cars are typically driven hard and anyone who owns, or has owned a heavily modified car knows they can have a few "quirks".

Weistec sounds promising but you can't call them proven. I've heard an equal number of success stories as I have failure stories. Most people who spend big bucks on these cars aren't members of forums and don't post. I rarely post. You don't see a long list of cars that I own or have owned in the past. I'm not much into sharing or discussing finances. Once you've invested big bucks with a tuner on a heavily modified car you're committed. You're at the tuners mercy. It's not unheard of for a tuner to refuse support if you take your complaint to a public forum. So, we never truly know how many issues a tuner may have in the real world. Now, buy a second hand tuner car! Support really goes to hell.

I've learned to only work with shops that are local to me. I live in Denver and use Kleemann exclusively. They've been great. Good products but, most important of all, excellent customer service and follow through. There are a lot of good products out there but, in my opinion, very few shops that understand the fine art of customer service.

I had a great experience with Kleemann and Renntech. I really enjoy working with Brandon and Cory from Kleemann, they're good guys. My Heffner Viper had some issues but, for the most part, it was pretty reliable. Hennessey is a crook. And EVOMS is hands down the worst big tuner that I've used. Their products are OK but their service is horrendous. They had my Cayenne and GT2 for over a year and getting them to respond to emails and voice mails is impossible. I actually had to fly down there to figure out what was going on with my GT2. It was like a hostage situation.

The CBS is a GREAT car but it will depreciate like all AMG's. This time next year they'll be a steal, even cars with the aero package.

Pertplus

I'll call BS! You know you drive it to the Library and the Piggly Wiggly!

AMG 17GT

Here comes 2014.

If someone hypothetically didn't sell a 2012 for 200k with any mods available then they have either lost all sense of reality or maybe they will just continue to perpetuate a lost sense of perceived value.

Either way these cars will unfortunately be obsolete in 2 years with the turbo tech that's coming next year.

Good luck holding these cars for too long.

mdgrwl

Finally someone who chimes in with truth, and I have to agree with you 100%. My supercharged and stroked out Charger SRT8 was a nightmare... so much so I swore I'd never do it again. Tuners & customer service rarley go hand and hand... and it almost always turns into a blame game. "Its not the tune caused that!" - how many times have you heard that on a heavily modded car?

As far as the high rollers in this thread swearing up and down that tuner life is perfect and their modded cars are "well worth every penny even sold used" are full of crap with your "its a different league" garbage. If you mean "different league" as in your future buyers are retarded idiots who don't know a huge risk when it slaps them in the face - sure. But I, for one second, wouldn't touch one of these modded cars, even if they were sold at MSRP.

And one other thing - its 100% true once you "partner" with a tuner, your in bed with them basically for the life of that car. Not all experience are negative, some can be great. But even if they are great, do you really need to have the tuners name all over your car? Like, did they pay you to be a driving advertisement for them? They just made your car their company advertising car - and your stupid enough to of agree'd. Or if you actually LIKE having Weistec plastered all over your car, you have no taste.

jrcart

I assume you are directing this towards me since I was offered $200k on more than one occasion and did not take it. It has noting to do with money, I don't sell or trade in my cars, I collect cars. $200K is nothing for me, I make that in a couple weeks. I get more enjoyment out of owning the car than I would get selling it, even if I sold it for $300K. I would not sell my C BS for even $300k, at least not right now. I get too much enjoyment out of it. Sure maybe a year or two or ten I might wake up and be bored of it and sell it but most likely it would get shuffled to the back of my warehouse and gather dust with the other old neglicted toys. Everyone has there reasons for buying, leasing, selling, trading, modding, etc. I enjoy taking a super rare super fast car and then turning it into something even more special, more rare and hyper fast.

You are on the mark with your "perceived value" comment, my perceived value is probably different than 90% of the guys on this board. I took a $300K SLS BS and voided the warranty the day I took delivery then bolted on another $60K in mods and didn't hesitate one second to do it. Over on AMG PL some of the AMG purists said I was nuts, "I ruined a collectors item" while others praised me for pushing the envelope. Bottom line is that everyone's perceived value is going to vary on their particular situation.

R8lai

In the end cars are just for fun instead of investment, if u can't afford the lost then don't mod it at the beginning..

rufferto

I want to go see jrcart's warehouse of abandoned toys!

CarHopper

Can I come too?

mdgrwl

$200K every few weeks = $5M a year. What the hell are you doing farting around with tuner AMG's ?

I'd be into some Bugatti Veyron, McLaren, 918 Spider, LFA, etc...