507 vs Original C63 engine?
507 vs Original C63 engine?
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'14 507, '05 F-150, 1992 Ducati 900SS, 2000 Ducati ST2, Trek Fuel 98
"The increase of 37 kW (50 hp) now brings output to 373 kW (507 hp) with a maximum torque of 610 Nm, and is a result of a technology transfer from the SLS AMG: the eight-cylinder naturally aspirated engine from the super sports car features forged pistons, connecting rods and a lightweight crankshaft. An AMG high-performance composite braking system with red brake callipers is fitted as standard."
from http://www.mercedes-amg.com/c63c.php?lang=eng
So, no unless you pull your engine apart and rebuild it with SLS rods and pistons (a very expensive proposition) then it will not be the same.
Many people will say that the difference between the engines is just a tune, and HP wise, that is mostly true, however from an engineering standpoint, when you increase output, you also increase internal engine stresses, that is where the upgraded rods, pistons and crankshaft become more valuable. The increased HP that comes with the 507 is supported by the upgraded rotating internal engine parts, resulting in greater reliability. You can get the added HP with a tune on a standard C63 and you will most likely not have any problems... most likely. I bet that 99% or more of the modded C63's have no issues. But reliability is the main reason those parts are different. The lighter parts will also give your engine less inertia, which should result in a livelier response to the throttle, engine RPM wise. I doubt many non-professional drivers would notice the difference, but that is one of the aims of lighter internal rotating components.
from http://www.mercedes-amg.com/c63c.php?lang=eng
So, no unless you pull your engine apart and rebuild it with SLS rods and pistons (a very expensive proposition) then it will not be the same.
Many people will say that the difference between the engines is just a tune, and HP wise, that is mostly true, however from an engineering standpoint, when you increase output, you also increase internal engine stresses, that is where the upgraded rods, pistons and crankshaft become more valuable. The increased HP that comes with the 507 is supported by the upgraded rotating internal engine parts, resulting in greater reliability. You can get the added HP with a tune on a standard C63 and you will most likely not have any problems... most likely. I bet that 99% or more of the modded C63's have no issues. But reliability is the main reason those parts are different. The lighter parts will also give your engine less inertia, which should result in a livelier response to the throttle, engine RPM wise. I doubt many non-professional drivers would notice the difference, but that is one of the aims of lighter internal rotating components.
Last edited by bjonesmd; Mar 12, 2014 at 09:06 AM.
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C63 Coupe 507, CLK55 Convertible, X1 35i, 70 GTO convertible, motorcycles
And the character changes a little with the lighter rotating assembly. Having said that, I think the "just a tune" explanation is essentially true as it relates to the differences between a 507 motor and a P31 motor.
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From: San Francisco, CA
2010 C63 AMG
You guys read into the marketing BS too much. All you get is marginally lighter rotating assembly + a tune. These engines are not even close to being stressed, so I wouldn't be concerned at all with pistons or rods breaking until you get close to double the stock horsepower.
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C63 AMG
"The increase of 37 kW (50 hp) now brings output to 373 kW (507 hp) with a maximum torque of 610 Nm, and is a result of a technology transfer from the SLS AMG: the eight-cylinder naturally aspirated engine from the super sports car features forged pistons, connecting rods and a lightweight crankshaft. An AMG high-performance composite braking system with red brake callipers is fitted as standard."
from http://www.mercedes-amg.com/c63c.php?lang=eng
So, no unless you pull your engine apart and rebuild it with SLS rods and pistons (a very expensive proposition) then it will not be the same.
Many people will say that the difference between the engines is just a tune, and HP wise, that is mostly true, however from an engineering standpoint, when you increase output, you also increase internal engine stresses, that is where the upgraded rods, pistons and crankshaft become more valuable. The increased HP that comes with the 507 is supported by the upgraded rotating internal engine parts, resulting in greater reliability. You can get the added HP with a tune on a standard C63 and you will most likely not have any problems... most likely. I bet that 99% or more of the modded C63's have no issues. But reliability is the main reason those parts are different. The lighter parts will also give your engine less inertia, which should result in a livelier response to the throttle, engine RPM wise. I doubt many non-professional drivers would notice the difference, but that is one of the aims of lighter internal rotating components.
from http://www.mercedes-amg.com/c63c.php?lang=eng
So, no unless you pull your engine apart and rebuild it with SLS rods and pistons (a very expensive proposition) then it will not be the same.
Many people will say that the difference between the engines is just a tune, and HP wise, that is mostly true, however from an engineering standpoint, when you increase output, you also increase internal engine stresses, that is where the upgraded rods, pistons and crankshaft become more valuable. The increased HP that comes with the 507 is supported by the upgraded rotating internal engine parts, resulting in greater reliability. You can get the added HP with a tune on a standard C63 and you will most likely not have any problems... most likely. I bet that 99% or more of the modded C63's have no issues. But reliability is the main reason those parts are different. The lighter parts will also give your engine less inertia, which should result in a livelier response to the throttle, engine RPM wise. I doubt many non-professional drivers would notice the difference, but that is one of the aims of lighter internal rotating components.
The upgraded internals were not around for many many years and there is tons of E, ClS, ML, CL and S class 63s running around with 507-518hp. It's a miracle they have lasted this long!
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2010 Irridium Silver MB C63 AMG Sedan
All marketing....you guys who read into it are the same people who buy Nike shoes and think you will run faster...Same engine, some minor different parts, but you will never stress the engine to the point where it will EVER make a difference or that you will even notice it (assuming p31 vs 507). The M156 is a stout engine to begin with. They had to justify $90K for a c-class somehow, didn't they? Let's add a stripe, some hood vents, and some different wheels...
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'14 507, '05 F-150, 1992 Ducati 900SS, 2000 Ducati ST2, Trek Fuel 98
Of course the standard C63 motor is very strong and obviously holds up very well. The different internal components are not necessary to run high HP. However the opposite contention that they provide no added benefit is also untrue. The reliability difference is likely very small and will depend entirely on how the vehicle is used. For the vast majority of owners it will make no difference whatsoever, just like many other "mods" we make to our cars.
The original question concerned the difference in internal components between the standard C63 motor and the 507 motor. Anecdotally, it would appear that there is little if any actual functional difference. Without compiling a statistical failure rate analysis, it be difficult to answer that question definitively.
In the interest of full disclosure; I did not choose a 507 because of the crank shaft and pistons, I got a good deal and it was the only one I could get with all the options.
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From: Alberta
This and that.
It's funny seeing the 507 owners justify them paying extra for a car with no difference. That being said, as far as I am concerned, the only thing the 507 has going for it over a 'regular' C63 is the exclusivity factor. They are relatively rare, that being said, it wouldn't make difference to an untrained eye.
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C63 P31 Coupe 13'
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From: Alberta
This and that.
Pretty much. The hood looks a little different, the rims are different and it has those gawdy decals running along the side. Even if they were out before I got my C63, I wouldn't have given two thoughts to it. In fact, even if I had the 507, I would have gotten rid of those decals before anything else. But like I said earlier, it is definitely a little more rarer than the C63 (simply cause it just came out vs c63's being out for a while), but not as exclusive or rare as the Black Series.
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C63 507, 911 Carrera, Range Rover, Disco
I think...back to the original posters question...just what are the differences?
I know there is the marketing jargon, and what people think are the changes regarding the internals and a tune, and what we have heard, but I would like a detailed spec sheet on both motors and an explanation from one of the builders to understand exactly what else has changed mechanically and software wise from both motors.
I am sure there are a few ancillary things that had to have changed as well...might mean nothing in terms of HP or reliability but I would like to know all the differences.
Just my .02
I know there is the marketing jargon, and what people think are the changes regarding the internals and a tune, and what we have heard, but I would like a detailed spec sheet on both motors and an explanation from one of the builders to understand exactly what else has changed mechanically and software wise from both motors.
I am sure there are a few ancillary things that had to have changed as well...might mean nothing in terms of HP or reliability but I would like to know all the differences.
Just my .02
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2006 E320 CDI 2014 C63 507 Coupe 2012 E550 4M 2016 E63s Wagon
The P31, 507 (P61), and BS all have the same engine with forged internals. The tune is different 481, 507, 510hp.
Non P31/P61/BS don't have the forged internals and make ~451. Sports packages also adds 2-pc rotors, and other "accessories."
Now all of these can be tuned to the same degree and with similar results well over 510HP. Will the 6lb weight savings of the forged internals make a power difference in a tuned car, and to what extent? I sure don't know.
Many would argue that if you are going to really tune a car (tune, headers, etc.) it's better not to pay for factory upgrades that are getting programmed over, or tossed out.
Non P31/P61/BS don't have the forged internals and make ~451. Sports packages also adds 2-pc rotors, and other "accessories."
Now all of these can be tuned to the same degree and with similar results well over 510HP. Will the 6lb weight savings of the forged internals make a power difference in a tuned car, and to what extent? I sure don't know.
Many would argue that if you are going to really tune a car (tune, headers, etc.) it's better not to pay for factory upgrades that are getting programmed over, or tossed out.
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C63 507
I believe that the "regular" M156 has both a forged crank and forged rods albeit with cast pistons. So the P61 has forged and lighter crank/rods setup for a reduction in reciprocating mass with the added benefit of forged pistons which make up the delta. The amended P61 components were touted as being from the SLS as well for the coolness factor .
How much of a difference any of that makes from the outside, idk.
.How much of a difference any of that makes from the outside, idk.
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From: Sacramento, CA
'09 C63
As everyone above has reliability is nearly negligible with upgraded pistons, crankshaft, etc.
I spoke to my indy-mech (20+ years as a MB service advisor) a while back about upgrading to forged pistons, ported heads, and M159 valve buckets to help prolong the engine life of my C63 since I plan on keeping it for quite a long time. He put it quite simple: you're better off spending that money for routine maintenance if you want reliability.
Unless you're trying to go beyond the extremes of the engine's capabilities, say what Brabus normally does to MBs, then the 507's upgraded internals won't really do much for you.
I spoke to my indy-mech (20+ years as a MB service advisor) a while back about upgrading to forged pistons, ported heads, and M159 valve buckets to help prolong the engine life of my C63 since I plan on keeping it for quite a long time. He put it quite simple: you're better off spending that money for routine maintenance if you want reliability.
Unless you're trying to go beyond the extremes of the engine's capabilities, say what Brabus normally does to MBs, then the 507's upgraded internals won't really do much for you.
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14' C63 507 Edition Coupe
Off Subject - Any Paint Chip Solutions for Designo Magno Paint?
I was driving my designo magno finished C63 507 today, and a rock came up from the asphalt and left 2 small chips on the hood of my car, each of them no larger than the tip of a ballpoint pen. what should i do to solve this problem of mine 
??? I do realize theres not much you could do for matte paint, but you have to consider the damage is minimal/barely recognizable. Does anybody have some suggestions for me about repairing the paint chips before I wrap my car with clear bra vinyl? 
??? I do realize theres not much you could do for matte paint, but you have to consider the damage is minimal/barely recognizable. Does anybody have some suggestions for me about repairing the paint chips before I wrap my car with clear bra vinyl?
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From: Sacramento, CA
'09 C63
I was driving my designo magno finished C63 507 today, and a rock came up from the asphalt and left 2 small chips on the hood of my car, each of them no larger than the tip of a ballpoint pen. what should i do to solve this problem of mine ??? I do realize theres not much you could do for matte paint, but you have to consider the damage is minimal/barely recognizable. Does anybody have some suggestions for me about repairing the paint chips before I wrap my car with clear bra vinyl?
??? I do realize theres not much you could do for matte paint, but you have to consider the damage is minimal/barely recognizable. Does anybody have some suggestions for me about repairing the paint chips before I wrap my car with clear bra vinyl? Good luck with the repair.
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14' C63 507 Edition Coupe
That's the thing about matte finishes...they look ridiculously awesome, but maintenance on them is ridiculously not. I would go to the dealership or someone who has dealt with matte finishes to see what they say. Designo isn't cheap so that last thing you want is a cheap repair job on it.
Good luck with the repair.
Good luck with the repair.
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C63 AMG
although power is increased the max rpm and peak torque are approximately the same
these are what determine the force/stress imposed the engine
in other words T = P x V / 4Pi and P = T x w (w = 2 Pi n rev/sec) and V = displacement
P = mean effective pressure which AMG gives in their specs (the only mfg I know of that does, since this is the key indicator of torque
imho there is no risk running this engine up to 520 HP, the E63, S63, etc, do it safely
13.16 bar for the SLS (12.8 for the M156 in the C63, et al)
look under specs
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/engineer...ction=63lv8sls
they list other engines too
these are what determine the force/stress imposed the engine
in other words T = P x V / 4Pi and P = T x w (w = 2 Pi n rev/sec) and V = displacement
P = mean effective pressure which AMG gives in their specs (the only mfg I know of that does, since this is the key indicator of torque
imho there is no risk running this engine up to 520 HP, the E63, S63, etc, do it safely
13.16 bar for the SLS (12.8 for the M156 in the C63, et al)
look under specs
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/engineer...ction=63lv8sls
they list other engines too
Last edited by Ingenieur; Mar 12, 2014 at 05:28 PM.
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From: Metro Detroit
2014 C63 AMG 507 sedan
Does anyone know which version M156 the CLK Black series came with? I assume it's the "regular" M156 with a more aggressive tune. It wasn't until 2011 when the P31 option came out.
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C63 AMG
OH GOD.. shoot me.
although power is increased the max rpm and peak torque are approximately the same
these are what determine the force/stress imposed the engine
in other words T = P x V / 4Pi and P = T x w (w = 2 Pi n rev/sec) and V = displacement
P = mean effective pressure which AMG gives in their specs (the only mfg I know of that does, since this is the key indicator of torque
imho there is no risk running this engine up to 520 HP, the E63, S63, etc, do it safely
13.16 bar for the SLS (12.8 for the M156 in the C63, et al)
look under specs
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/engineer...ction=63lv8sls
they list other engines too
these are what determine the force/stress imposed the engine
in other words T = P x V / 4Pi and P = T x w (w = 2 Pi n rev/sec) and V = displacement
P = mean effective pressure which AMG gives in their specs (the only mfg I know of that does, since this is the key indicator of torque
imho there is no risk running this engine up to 520 HP, the E63, S63, etc, do it safely
13.16 bar for the SLS (12.8 for the M156 in the C63, et al)
look under specs
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/engineer...ction=63lv8sls
they list other engines too
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C63 AMG
I'm sure with your personality you could find more than a few willing volunteers
Chances are you'll off your miserable self first and do us all a favor... Don't be a coward, do your own dirty work
God wants no part of it
Btw I'm spoken for stalker
Obsess much??
Lol
Chances are you'll off your miserable self first and do us all a favor... Don't be a coward, do your own dirty work
God wants no part of it
Btw I'm spoken for stalker
Obsess much??
Lol
Last edited by Ingenieur; Mar 12, 2014 at 08:45 PM.
