El-Debs

What is the difference between their engines? Could the original c63 engine become similar to the 507?

mr747

Engine is the pretty much the same
507 has forged pistons and bits and pcs
Forged rods as well

bjonesmd

"The increase of 37 kW (50 hp) now brings output to 373 kW (507 hp) with a maximum torque of 610 Nm, and is a result of a technology transfer from the SLS AMG: the eight-cylinder naturally aspirated engine from the super sports car features forged pistons, connecting rods and a lightweight crankshaft. An AMG high-performance composite braking system with red brake callipers is fitted as standard."

from http://www.mercedes-amg.com/c63c.php?lang=eng

So, no unless you pull your engine apart and rebuild it with SLS rods and pistons (a very expensive proposition) then it will not be the same.

Many people will say that the difference between the engines is just a tune, and HP wise, that is mostly true, however from an engineering standpoint, when you increase output, you also increase internal engine stresses, that is where the upgraded rods, pistons and crankshaft become more valuable. The increased HP that comes with the 507 is supported by the upgraded rotating internal engine parts, resulting in greater reliability. You can get the added HP with a tune on a standard C63 and you will most likely not have any problems... most likely. I bet that 99% or more of the modded C63's have no issues. But reliability is the main reason those parts are different. The lighter parts will also give your engine less inertia, which should result in a livelier response to the throttle, engine RPM wise. I doubt many non-professional drivers would notice the difference, but that is one of the aims of lighter internal rotating components.

goatfarmer1970

And the character changes a little with the lighter rotating assembly. Having said that, I think the "just a tune" explanation is essentially true as it relates to the differences between a 507 motor and a P31 motor.

adv4nced53

You guys read into the marketing BS too much. All you get is marginally lighter rotating assembly + a tune. These engines are not even close to being stressed, so I wouldn't be concerned at all with pistons or rods breaking until you get close to double the stock horsepower.

AMG893

The difference i read somewhere was 3KG in difference of engine weight

Merc63

It is the same engine.

The internals are a bit lighter on the 507 and p31.

I'm running over 700hp through the original internals, all is well.

Merc63

The upgraded internals were not around for many many years and there is tons of E, ClS, ML, CL and S class 63s running around with 507-518hp. It's a miracle they have lasted this long!

ZephyrAMG

All marketing....you guys who read into it are the same people who buy Nike shoes and think you will run faster...Same engine, some minor different parts, but you will never stress the engine to the point where it will EVER make a difference or that you will even notice it (assuming p31 vs 507). The M156 is a stout engine to begin with. They had to justify $90K for a c-class somehow, didn't they? Let's add a stripe, some hood vents, and some different wheels...

bjonesmd

Yep. Any one of might throw a rod any day now.

Of course the standard C63 motor is very strong and obviously holds up very well. The different internal components are not necessary to run high HP. However the opposite contention that they provide no added benefit is also untrue. The reliability difference is likely very small and will depend entirely on how the vehicle is used. For the vast majority of owners it will make no difference whatsoever, just like many other "mods" we make to our cars.

The original question concerned the difference in internal components between the standard C63 motor and the 507 motor. Anecdotally, it would appear that there is little if any actual functional difference. Without compiling a statistical failure rate analysis, it be difficult to answer that question definitively.

In the interest of full disclosure; I did not choose a 507 because of the crank shaft and pistons, I got a good deal and it was the only one I could get with all the options.

papashango

It's funny seeing the 507 owners justify them paying extra for a car with no difference. That being said, as far as I am concerned, the only thing the 507 has going for it over a 'regular' C63 is the exclusivity factor. They are relatively rare, that being said, it wouldn't make difference to an untrained eye.

El-Debs

So both are almost 98% similar. Except that the 507 engine has a bit lighter weight with a couple of small additions that made it 507hp? Which of course that can easily be made in a normal C63 engine. Adding more hp is not a big deal at this moment right, boosting the engine to that amount of hp can be made these days. Like I seriously was wondering.. is the whole "507" concept by the company was made just to gain money as much as they can before producing their w205 generation, the 2015 63s? Like for me, I am a noobie who wants a w204 C63 I am looking at both 507s and Normal C63s and I guess for the sake of my budget going with a normal one is the good deal. Not the actual 507 as many people claim :/

papashango

Pretty much. The hood looks a little different, the rims are different and it has those gawdy decals running along the side. Even if they were out before I got my C63, I wouldn't have given two thoughts to it. In fact, even if I had the 507, I would have gotten rid of those decals before anything else. But like I said earlier, it is definitely a little more rarer than the C63 (simply cause it just came out vs c63's being out for a while), but not as exclusive or rare as the Black Series.

ParkerK

I think...back to the original posters question...just what are the differences?


I know there is the marketing jargon, and what people think are the changes regarding the internals and a tune, and what we have heard, but I would like a detailed spec sheet on both motors and an explanation from one of the builders to understand exactly what else has changed mechanically and software wise from both motors.


I am sure there are a few ancillary things that had to have changed as well...might mean nothing in terms of HP or reliability but I would like to know all the differences.


Just my .02

rediesel

The P31, 507 (P61), and BS all have the same engine with forged internals. The tune is different 481, 507, 510hp.

Non P31/P61/BS don't have the forged internals and make ~451. Sports packages also adds 2-pc rotors, and other "accessories."

Now all of these can be tuned to the same degree and with similar results well over 510HP. Will the 6lb weight savings of the forged internals make a power difference in a tuned car, and to what extent? I sure don't know.

Many would argue that if you are going to really tune a car (tune, headers, etc.) it's better not to pay for factory upgrades that are getting programmed over, or tossed out.

Giedreb

I believe that the "regular" M156 has both a forged crank and forged rods albeit with cast pistons. So the P61 has forged and lighter crank/rods setup for a reduction in reciprocating mass with the added benefit of forged pistons which make up the delta. The amended P61 components were touted as being from the SLS as well for the coolness factor .

How much of a difference any of that makes from the outside, idk.

tfthach13

As everyone above has reliability is nearly negligible with upgraded pistons, crankshaft, etc.

I spoke to my indy-mech (20+ years as a MB service advisor) a while back about upgrading to forged pistons, ported heads, and M159 valve buckets to help prolong the engine life of my C63 since I plan on keeping it for quite a long time. He put it quite simple: you're better off spending that money for routine maintenance if you want reliability.

Unless you're trying to go beyond the extremes of the engine's capabilities, say what Brabus normally does to MBs, then the 507's upgraded internals won't really do much for you.

Chris507

I was driving my designo magno finished C63 507 today, and a rock came up from the asphalt and left 2 small chips on the hood of my car, each of them no larger than the tip of a ballpoint pen. what should i do to solve this problem of mine ??? I do realize theres not much you could do for matte paint, but you have to consider the damage is minimal/barely recognizable. Does anybody have some suggestions for me about repairing the paint chips before I wrap my car with clear bra vinyl?

tfthach13

That's the thing about matte finishes...they look ridiculously awesome, but maintenance on them is ridiculously not. I would go to the dealership or someone who has dealt with matte finishes to see what they say. Designo isn't cheap so that last thing you want is a cheap repair job on it.

Good luck with the repair.

Chris507

Thanks brotha i appreciate the quick reply. Hopefully theres a way around repainting the entire hood without giving the paint job an uneven effect.

Chris507

By some crazy chance, anyone here go through a similar problem to mine and end up resolving it? If so what'd you do about it, just trying to get as much advice as i can right now.

Ingenieur

although power is increased the max rpm and peak torque are approximately the same
these are what determine the force/stress imposed the engine


in other words T = P x V / 4Pi and P = T x w (w = 2 Pi n rev/sec) and V = displacement
P = mean effective pressure which AMG gives in their specs (the only mfg I know of that does, since this is the key indicator of torque


imho there is no risk running this engine up to 520 HP, the E63, S63, etc, do it safely


13.16 bar for the SLS (12.8 for the M156 in the C63, et al)
look under specs
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/engineer...ction=63lv8sls
they list other engines too

Thrilla

Does anyone know which version M156 the CLK Black series came with? I assume it's the "regular" M156 with a more aggressive tune. It wasn't until 2011 when the P31 option came out.

Merc63

OH GOD.. shoot me.

Ingenieur

I'm sure with your personality you could find more than a few willing volunteers

Chances are you'll off your miserable self first and do us all a favor... Don't be a coward, do your own dirty work
God wants no part of it

Btw I'm spoken for stalker
Obsess much??
Lol