Wavetrac being installed
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,677
From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
No doubt
You were mot even aware that shims may be required depending on wear
He 's built 1000"s of gear boxes
You hacked one together
Do the math
Are you saying you lnow more than him about gear boxes?
Now that deserves an 'oh really'
If ignorance is bliss you must be a laughing fool
You were mot even aware that shims may be required depending on wear
He 's built 1000"s of gear boxes
You hacked one together
Do the math
Are you saying you lnow more than him about gear boxes?
Now that deserves an 'oh really'
If ignorance is bliss you must be a laughing fool
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
Car stationary on ice
Tcs on
Slam throttle
Rears spin
Fronts stationary
Slip infinite rear speed/front
Od does not matter
It looks at the difference
And full throttle but no torque delivered
The system looks at wheel speed ABS sensors
Not road speed
Tire circumferance is not a factor
Car starts to move
Front wheel 10 rpm
Rears 20
Still cutting power
Rears slow to 11
Power stabilizes
Within 10%
You can 'crawl' and crab
If 2% you couldnot do this
Tcs on
Slam throttle
Rears spin
Fronts stationary
Slip infinite rear speed/front
Od does not matter
It looks at the difference
And full throttle but no torque delivered
The system looks at wheel speed ABS sensors
Not road speed
Tire circumferance is not a factor
Car starts to move
Front wheel 10 rpm
Rears 20
Still cutting power
Rears slow to 11
Power stabilizes
Within 10%
You can 'crawl' and crab
If 2% you couldnot do this
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
Not as much about the diff as your thought process
If you knew it was hacked you would have someone else do it
But you don't know what you don 't know
Don't sweat it
It's the least of your 'worries'
It's only a car
Just keep your fingers crossed
You can always have someone else do it right
Lol
So are there shims or not?
Lol
If you knew it was hacked you would have someone else do it
But you don't know what you don 't know
Don't sweat it
It's the least of your 'worries'
It's only a car
Just keep your fingers crossed
You can always have someone else do it right
Lol
So are there shims or not?
Lol
Last edited by Ingenieur; May 26, 2014 at 05:29 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,677
From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
Not as much about the diff as your thought process
If you knew it was hacked you would have someone else do it
But you don't know what you don 't know
Don't sweat it
It's the least of your 'worries'
It's only a car
Just keep your fingers crossed
You can always have someone else do it right
Lol
So are there shims or not?
Lol
If you knew it was hacked you would have someone else do it
But you don't know what you don 't know
Don't sweat it
It's the least of your 'worries'
It's only a car
Just keep your fingers crossed
You can always have someone else do it right
Lol
So are there shims or not?
Lol
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,677
From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
There are no shims to centre the differential.
The differential housing has a groove for each circlip. The circlip holds the bearing cup in place. The tapered roller bearing that is pressed onto the differential mates to each bearing cup. Both bearing cups (I believe a different size per side) locate the differential inside he housing. There is no side to side play. I can draw arrows on my pictures if required.
That link you sent with the shims look like they are used to set pinion depth on a W201. (didn't read through the whole thread..) I don't even think Wavetrack makes a unit for a W201 so I have no clue what Wavetrack sent your installer. They didn't send me anything 2 years ago when we installed mine.
Who knows, maybe there is a way to do some magic to make pinion depth adjustments inside the C63 pumpkin but I didn't dig that far into it to find out. My backlash was within spec before and after so I didn't need to.
But like you said. My diff is just hacked together so it's probably going to grenade anytime now.
The differential housing has a groove for each circlip. The circlip holds the bearing cup in place. The tapered roller bearing that is pressed onto the differential mates to each bearing cup. Both bearing cups (I believe a different size per side) locate the differential inside he housing. There is no side to side play. I can draw arrows on my pictures if required.
That link you sent with the shims look like they are used to set pinion depth on a W201. (didn't read through the whole thread..) I don't even think Wavetrack makes a unit for a W201 so I have no clue what Wavetrack sent your installer. They didn't send me anything 2 years ago when we installed mine.
Who knows, maybe there is a way to do some magic to make pinion depth adjustments inside the C63 pumpkin but I didn't dig that far into it to find out. My backlash was within spec before and after so I didn't need to.
But like you said. My diff is just hacked together so it's probably going to grenade anytime now.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,278
Likes: 377
From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
There are no shims to centre the differential.
The differential housing has a groove for each circlip. The circlip holds the bearing cup in place. The tapered roller bearing that is pressed onto the differential mates to each bearing cup. Both bearing cups (I believe a different size per side) locate the differential inside he housing. There is no side to side play. I can draw arrows on my pictures if required.
That link you sent with the shims look like they are used to set pinion depth on a W201. (didn't read through the whole thread..) I don't even think Wavetrack makes a unit for a W201 so I have no clue what Wavetrack sent your installer. They didn't send me anything 2 years ago when we installed mine.
Who knows, maybe there is a way to do some magic to make pinion depth adjustments inside the C63 pumpkin but I didn't dig that far into it to find out. My backlash was within spec before and after so I didn't need to.
But like you said. My diff is just hacked together so it's probably going to grenade anytime now.
The differential housing has a groove for each circlip. The circlip holds the bearing cup in place. The tapered roller bearing that is pressed onto the differential mates to each bearing cup. Both bearing cups (I believe a different size per side) locate the differential inside he housing. There is no side to side play. I can draw arrows on my pictures if required.
That link you sent with the shims look like they are used to set pinion depth on a W201. (didn't read through the whole thread..) I don't even think Wavetrack makes a unit for a W201 so I have no clue what Wavetrack sent your installer. They didn't send me anything 2 years ago when we installed mine.
Who knows, maybe there is a way to do some magic to make pinion depth adjustments inside the C63 pumpkin but I didn't dig that far into it to find out. My backlash was within spec before and after so I didn't need to.
But like you said. My diff is just hacked together so it's probably going to grenade anytime now.
But the ring gear does need to have the same lateral position as it had in the old diff. Both preload and position are set with shims, which might need to be changed because of the swap. Preload torque and position (via mesh pattern) should ideally be checked during reassembly. This is diff 101.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,278
Likes: 377
From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
As I said, I've never done an MB diff but the shims are normally installed on one side of the carrier bearing or the other, depending on manufacturer. Changing relative shim thickness on the two carrier bearings moves the ring gear laterally while the sum of the shim thicknesses determines preload.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
There are no shims to centre the differential.
The differential housing has a groove for each circlip. The circlip holds the bearing cup in place. The tapered roller bearing that is pressed onto the differential mates to each bearing cup. Both bearing cups (I believe a different size per side) locate the differential inside he housing. There is no side to side play. I can draw arrows on my pictures if required.
That link you sent with the shims look like they are used to set pinion depth on a W201. (didn't read through the whole thread..) I don't even think Wavetrack makes a unit for a W201 so I have no clue what Wavetrack sent your installer. They didn't send me anything 2 years ago when we installed mine.
Who knows, maybe there is a way to do some magic to make pinion depth adjustments inside the C63 pumpkin but I didn't dig that far into it to find out. My backlash was within spec before and after so I didn't need to.
But like you said. My diff is just hacked together so it's probably going to grenade anytime now.
The differential housing has a groove for each circlip. The circlip holds the bearing cup in place. The tapered roller bearing that is pressed onto the differential mates to each bearing cup. Both bearing cups (I believe a different size per side) locate the differential inside he housing. There is no side to side play. I can draw arrows on my pictures if required.
That link you sent with the shims look like they are used to set pinion depth on a W201. (didn't read through the whole thread..) I don't even think Wavetrack makes a unit for a W201 so I have no clue what Wavetrack sent your installer. They didn't send me anything 2 years ago when we installed mine.
Who knows, maybe there is a way to do some magic to make pinion depth adjustments inside the C63 pumpkin but I didn't dig that far into it to find out. My backlash was within spec before and after so I didn't need to.
But like you said. My diff is just hacked together so it's probably going to grenade anytime now.
the MB diagram shows shims and gives >a dozen part numbers for varying thicknesses
I saw the shim kit
not pinion depth, there are no pinion shims
only ones that sit on each side of the diff
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
Both pinion and ring gear, in any differential, are adjusted for bearing preload and for mesh. In the MB, pinion bearing preload is set with a crush sleeve and there are, in fact, shims to set the pinion depth. But in this job, the pinion is not moved, so its bearing preload and depth don't have to be reset.
But the ring gear does need to have the same lateral position as it had in the old diff. Both preload and position are set with shims, which might need to be changed because of the swap. Preload torque and position (via mesh pattern) should ideally be checked during reassembly. This is diff 101.
But the ring gear does need to have the same lateral position as it had in the old diff. Both preload and position are set with shims, which might need to be changed because of the swap. Preload torque and position (via mesh pattern) should ideally be checked during reassembly. This is diff 101.
dogs and cats living in harmony!
we agree on something
the shims go on each side of the diff as required to align it on the pinion since it can't be adjusted laterally, only depth/penetration
they are shown in a link I posted (different model, same concept)
MB won't publically share the C63 diff diagram, you have to buy the whole thing
although they supply a shim kit
unless the car has high miles or improper fluid, chances are they don't need replaced
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,677
From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
It's possible some applications have shims if the housing has a +/- tolerance. In my case, there was no way to shift the differential from side to side in the housing.
Since no shims were used in your install it appears it was the same case.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,351
Likes: 1,677
From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
dogs and cats living in harmony!
we agree on something
the shims go on each side of the diff as required to align it on the pinion since it can't be adjusted laterally, only depth/penetration
they are shown in a link I posted (different model, same concept)
MB won't publically share the C63 diff diagram, you have to buy the whole thing
although they supply a shim kit
unless the car has high miles or improper fluid, chances are they don't need replaced
we agree on something
the shims go on each side of the diff as required to align it on the pinion since it can't be adjusted laterally, only depth/penetration
they are shown in a link I posted (different model, same concept)
MB won't publically share the C63 diff diagram, you have to buy the whole thing
although they supply a shim kit
unless the car has high miles or improper fluid, chances are they don't need replaced
That link you posted of diagram 17 was for a thrust washer which is used for setting side/spider gear friction inside the actual differential.
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,811
Likes: 7
C63 AMG
There were no shims in mine (2010) or my buddies (2009).
It's possible some applications have shims if the housing has a +/- tolerance. In my case, there was no way to shift the differential from side to side in the housing.
Since no shims were used in your install it appears it was the same case.
It's possible some applications have shims if the housing has a +/- tolerance. In my case, there was no way to shift the differential from side to side in the housing.
Since no shims were used in your install it appears it was the same case.
Not installed when new
And very, very thin
With modern metals, manufacturing metods/tolerances and lubricants might take a few 100 thousand miles to need them
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
'05 g55, '85 300tdt
This is a great thread. There doesn't seem to be much info online for setting these rear ends up.
I believe the shims are for setting the backlash. Some thicknesses are NLA and require machining down from the thicker ones.
Resetting the pinion is difficult to do properly without special tools, as it is done in a jig at the factory and adjusted for minimum noise, and getting it back to that position after removing it is impossible to do correctly without a jig of some type.
Anyway just wanted to say thanks for posting. It will help me get my wavetrac installed in an older 500SL diff.
I believe the shims are for setting the backlash. Some thicknesses are NLA and require machining down from the thicker ones.
Resetting the pinion is difficult to do properly without special tools, as it is done in a jig at the factory and adjusted for minimum noise, and getting it back to that position after removing it is impossible to do correctly without a jig of some type.
Anyway just wanted to say thanks for posting. It will help me get my wavetrac installed in an older 500SL diff.
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 807
Likes: 280
.
They work on a lot of C63's, and one of their lead techs owns a C63
Another alternative is ShepTrans, a bit further, outside of Akron, OH. Shep himself owns a few AMGs, and is also very meticulous and versed in LSD installation.
Shep installed member Ingenieur's Wavetrac
