zibby43

I agree.

The W205, on the other hand, should spank both the W204 and F80/F82.

And it will humiliate the E9X.

Ingenieur

The US numbers include the 75 kg
Subtract it, it equals the type weight
DIN/EC are pretty strict, base car <3400 lbs as BMW touted in their press release
US option car <3500
Even at that close to 500 lbs
The op claimed BMW underrated the car, actual is 480 hp & 495 lb ft

500 lbs lighter
Better balance
Wider tires
LSD
DCT with launch control

Yet slower to 124 mph

Either way it's really no faster straight line than a 507 or PP C63

Ingenieur

The M4 should beat it easily on the track
It ran 7:52 at the 'Ring
That's 10 sec faster than a 507
Same driver

unagi1

US specs don't typically include passengers, do include 100% fuel, typical options seen on 30% of built cars.

What is the point of typing, and how many of us here weigh 68 or 75kg

No additional info on conversion to US spec -- best bet is to go with US specs in order to ensure apples to apples comparison IMHO

Ingenieur

BMW NA uses the EU spec
It includes the 75kg
Been doing so since the e36
Scale weighed cars have confirmed this
Look at the data plate
Subtract max load from gross vehicle wt GVW
C63 = 4872 - 848 = 4024 lb
It is DOT requirement
We can tell the same from the M4 plate

Ingenieur

Scale weighed by sportauto

As a result, the BMW M4 Coupe tips the scales at 1,497 kg while the M3 Sedan stands at 1,520 kg in base specification. These weight savings have been achieved through the ...

M4 3293
M3 3344

There is 2 ways to make a car faster
Add torque
Reduce weight

Hopefully the w205 C63 will be trimmed to 3800 at least

Ezec63

I meant a stock m4 vs a headers, tune, exhaust c63 as the poster mentioned. A stock m4 vs stock 507 should be a close race.

Don't think the m4 won't go into limp mode either like the 335is was known for. Or blow a high pressure fuel pump that plaqued n54 and n55. It will also have to worry about not heat soaking it's air to water inter cooler ;-) which the new gen m5's have known to do and lose performance the more times they hot lap.

Good thing i have black series oil and trans cooler, thermalnator gaskets to separate my manifold and head, carbon fiber intake box and scoops that are gold reflect taped on bottom to reflect heat, speed driven trans pan that holds another 1.5 quarts of oil and has cooling fins. Think i have limp mode in check :-p

alexmtl

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003735

More dyno and weight info. Another M4, another dyno, very similar results. The real-world weight of the M4 is 3579lb with 1/2 a tank apparently.

unagi1

The modded c63 will have the edge as long as it puts out power well beyond 507 territory, but truth is c63 will lose the mod race without s/c -- all the m4 guys need to do is crank up the boost and control IATs, and they win.

Sounds like everything on the M car is covered except the wastegate sticking. I had that and then HPFP failure. Then, there's the time I launched the 335i in the air and snapped the serpentine belt, then limped into the dealership as the battery died...and the time I cracked my m6 rep winter wheel in half...but I digress.

Sounds like you have limp mode in check! I'm liking how you used gold foil to reflect heat -- that always works well

Ezec63

Check out my build thread ! I have MBH headers, x pipe, full exhaust, renntech 82mm throttle body, full cf intake, weistec TCU and valve body upgrade, 2 piece
Rotors(40 pounds of rotational mass) plus a bunch of other goodies. I agree it's going to be hard to keep up with the m4 staying N/A and cost significantly more but if you do supercharge the sky is the limit JRcart ran 9 flat in the 1/4 mile and trapped over 155 on some runs so there's more potential. The one thing the m4 will have is being able to go fast for relatively cheap (down pipes, exhaust, intake, tune +e85) and it'll dust 99% of c63's out there for cheap. I'm not a fanboy it def is an amazing car. Let's see what the AMG boys do with the next c63 !

My bro in law had a modded 335 n54 and it was fast for relatively cheap but also had a lot of problems hopefully the M doesn't go down the same path !

Limp mode is def in check !!! Took a boat load of $$ but hey now I can enjoy the car to the max and beat on it like I want to !

Ingenieur

0-124 mph
There is less than a second between a 2009 non PP C 63 and a new M3
A better comparison, 4 doors each
It is impossible for a car:
That is lighter by at least 10%
More hp 451 vs 480+ according to the dyno
More torque 443 vs 490 or so
Better tranny
More tire
Better wt dist

To be this close
The PP runs the same as the M
The 507 is faster than the M
Same driver, magazine, test location and methods

Ingenieur

Here's a dyno test from sportauto
They hire an independent testing agency rototest
It is a PP C63
Rated 487 hp or 358 kW
Exactly what is measured after losses
And they actually MEASURE losses
Mfgs do not rate the power, an independent 3rd party does using very exacting methods

The days of the late 60's and under-rating are long gone

JumpinJim

Nobody is listening, nobody cares what sportauto made up. They're wrong. They're off on weight by 200 lbs. They're obviously incompetent.

slfmde

New M is a beast.

Ingenieur

What's that make the 507?
0-124
M4 13.7
507 13.4
???

An Audi S6 will run with either
Chip it and it smoke them

Ingenieur

They weighed the car
As did the EC testing agency
As did BMW whomust be incompetent, hell, they can't even rate the hp correctly lol
It's eas who is suspect

480/490 3500 lb car running only 12.1/119
With dct and launch control augmented by an electronic lsd

0-124
507 13.4
M4 13.7
Lol

solekeeper

well, if someone gets a chance to run the m4 please post results.

Ingenieur

What does the gen of GTr-35 with the same power and torque do the 1/4 in?
Say 480-490 hp and 490 lb ft
It weighs like 4000 lbs
Mid 11's 123-125 range?

CarHopper

I don't think the S6 is in the same category though.

Should be something like this:

M3/4 vs S4 vs C63
M5 vs S6 vs E63

Ingenieur

Agree
Sad we don 't get the RS6 a REAL beast

How can the m4 with more power (485 vs 481) and torque (490 vs 443)
Weighing much less
Dct
Wider tires
Only be 2/10 and 2 mph faster
The PP is ~ the same as the m3 at 12.2/117 and it is much lighter
BMW fumbled this one

2009 amg c63 pp
DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 108.7 in Length: 186.0 in
Width: 70.7 in Height: 56.3 in
Curb weight: 3992 lb

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 9.1 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 4.3 sec
Standing �¼-mile: 12.3 sec @ 117 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 174 mph

CarHopper

While we don't get the RS6 you can still get an RS7.

I don't understand the logic with cars that aren't sold here. Any performance wagon would make so much money here... C63, RS wagon, M5 wagon, CLS wagon, etc etc etc. So many people in the states rave about wagons.

If an RS6 was sold here I would sell a kidney and a ********.

Ingenieur

The RS7 is nice but can't really get on board with the swoopy fastback look

Imho one of the best cars that never made it here
BMW e36 euro
< 3100 lbs
321 hp wide torque band 7200 rpm
6 TB's race car like response
6 sp manual
Compound brakes
Some say 190 mph car
Amazing handling, perhaps its strongest suit
In the early 90's tto boot !!!
A real sleeper

We got a watered down version

In this country you can almost anything
I think they do it to mess with us lol
" you can't have the good stuff" lol

JumpinJim

Sportauto has never even seen an M4 let alone weighed or tested one. BMW lists the weight at 3585 which is right in line with what people weighing actual real cars come back with. You know, people who actually have them as opposed to wishing they had one. Sportauto has no credibility as they've been proven they can't get something so simple correct. I'll wait for a real review from a credible source instead of a car tabloid. Odd that none of the respected car review magazines have anything out yet, but sportauto has stuff out weeks ahead of time. Yeah, that doesn't pass the smell test.

Ingenieur

if you can't be trusted on whether sportauto tested one every thing else you say must be dismissed out of hand

really? http://www.sportauto.de/heft/sportau...4-8398591.html they ran around the 'Ring in 7:52

sportauto is THE benchmark, unlike US rags who are full of hyperbole and short on substance
who do you like, euro tuner?

0-124 mph the 507 is faster despite being much heavier, having less tire and torque and no dct...pathetic
a US magazine got 12.1/119 and 12.2/117 M4/M3 this months motor trend...if you call that respectable...basically the same as an C63
despite having more power/torque and weighing much less, lol

BMW UK
Weight
Unladen (EU) (kg)
1572 [1612]
EU/Germany:
1. Leergewicht EU ( Car with 90% fuel, 68kg driver, 7kg luggage (75kg). Latest EU definition uses only driver @ 75kg )
so 90% fuel and 75 kg load
1612 -75 = 1537 or 3381 pounds
the sportauto car had cf brakes and forged wheels (I don't think they are standard) probably a little lighter

Ingenieur

sportauto does real tests
dyno
wind tunnel
etc.

so far superior to anything US mags do that it is not even comparable
not to mention the driving skill of the testers: Horst von Saurma runs times comparable to Porsche and Nissan factory race/test drivers

here's the test for an AMG C63 PP see for yourself
http://www.sportauto.de/supertest/me...t-5212033.html

actual wind tunnel data!
front/rear lift force, area and Cd

Fahrzeugstirnfläche: 2.190 m² Luftwiderstandsbeiwert: 0.29 Luftwiderstandsindex: 0.64 Vorderachse: 34 kg Auftrieb Hinterachse: 27 kg Auftrieb


0-200 km/h:13,7 s
M4...exactly the same 13.7
exactly

actual dyno with measured losses