Eurocharged group buy - 63 series crank pulley
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C63 AMG
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C63
You'll pull on an m5 with tune only. To be honest, 600 bucks for a pulley is plain dumb. Let alone for such little gains that won't be able to be felt.
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C63 AMG
Look at it as buying horsepower, not products.
Relatively speaking:
Carbon Fiber Style Intake - cost $1800 / gain 0-10whp or $180/hp (blah)
Exhaust - $2500 / gain 20whp or $125/hp (meh)
LT Headers - cost $3000 / gain 40whp or $75/hp (good)
Pulley - $600 / gain 10whp or $60/hp (better)
Tune - $1000 / gain 45whp or $23/hp (best)
Prices and ratings may vary a few points in either direction, but you get my point.
Last edited by Autosport7; Jul 9, 2014 at 10:27 PM.
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C63
Interesting train of thought but tend to disagree.
Look at it as buying horsepower, not products.
Relatively speaking:
Carbon Fiber Style Intake - cost $1800 / gain 0-10whp or $180/hp (blah)
Exhaust - $2500 / gain 20whp or $125/hp (meh)
LT Headers - cost $3000 / gain 40whp or $75/hp (good)
Pulley - $600 / gain 10whp or $60/hp (better)
Tune - $1000 / gain 45whp or $23/hp (best)
Prices and ratings may vary a few points in either direction, but you get my point.
Look at it as buying horsepower, not products.
Relatively speaking:
Carbon Fiber Style Intake - cost $1800 / gain 0-10whp or $180/hp (blah)
Exhaust - $2500 / gain 20whp or $125/hp (meh)
LT Headers - cost $3000 / gain 40whp or $75/hp (good)
Pulley - $600 / gain 10whp or $60/hp (better)
Tune - $1000 / gain 45whp or $23/hp (best)
Prices and ratings may vary a few points in either direction, but you get my point.
Pulleys are a waste of time on naturally aspirated vehicles and the of them not causing harm will be present in no time. On top of all this you guys are buying something with no dyno evidence. You guys are better off spending 600 dollars on race fuel than this junk.
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C63
Underdrive pulleys slowdown the accessories like the water pump, air conditioning compressor, power steering and alternator, which are more than adequate to begin with.
It's pretty simple. For today's vehicles to run at optimum performance a lot of things need to happen, correctly. There are two very important parts of the rpm range when talking about alternator output. Idle and WOT. What controls your vehicles fuel delivery and timing then? The ECU... and it's voltage dependant. You see the cars today are so smart that if your electrical system isn't healthy the computer will simply retard ignition timing or alter fuel delivery at WOT to compensate for low voltage, saving a costly engine disaster. The computer knows that if your vehicles voltage is lower than expected the fuel pump will be delivering less fuel, the injectors will open and close slower and some adjustments will be made to guard against engine damage. Install an underdrive pulley and you may end up underpowered.
You guys need to do a little more homework and put your ears to the ground before you waste your money.
Believe me, if I thought this would make power.... I would of bought this before the group buy.
It's pretty simple. For today's vehicles to run at optimum performance a lot of things need to happen, correctly. There are two very important parts of the rpm range when talking about alternator output. Idle and WOT. What controls your vehicles fuel delivery and timing then? The ECU... and it's voltage dependant. You see the cars today are so smart that if your electrical system isn't healthy the computer will simply retard ignition timing or alter fuel delivery at WOT to compensate for low voltage, saving a costly engine disaster. The computer knows that if your vehicles voltage is lower than expected the fuel pump will be delivering less fuel, the injectors will open and close slower and some adjustments will be made to guard against engine damage. Install an underdrive pulley and you may end up underpowered.
You guys need to do a little more homework and put your ears to the ground before you waste your money.
Believe me, if I thought this would make power.... I would of bought this before the group buy.
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From: Pittsburgh
C63 AMG
Underdrive pulleys slowdown the accessories like the water pump, air conditioning compressor, power steering and alternator, which are more than adequate to begin with.
It's pretty simple. For today's vehicles to run at optimum performance a lot of things need to happen, correctly. There are two very important parts of the rpm range when talking about alternator output. Idle and WOT. What controls your vehicles fuel delivery and timing then? The ECU... and it's voltage dependant. You see the cars today are so smart that if your electrical system isn't healthy the computer will simply retard ignition timing or alter fuel delivery at WOT to compensate for low voltage, saving a costly engine disaster. The computer knows that if your vehicles voltage is lower than expected the fuel pump will be delivering less fuel, the injectors will open and close slower and some adjustments will be made to guard against engine damage. Install an underdrive pulley and you may end up underpowered.
You guys need to do a little more homework and put your ears to the ground before you waste your money.
Believe me, if I thought this would make power.... I would of bought this before the group buy.
It's pretty simple. For today's vehicles to run at optimum performance a lot of things need to happen, correctly. There are two very important parts of the rpm range when talking about alternator output. Idle and WOT. What controls your vehicles fuel delivery and timing then? The ECU... and it's voltage dependant. You see the cars today are so smart that if your electrical system isn't healthy the computer will simply retard ignition timing or alter fuel delivery at WOT to compensate for low voltage, saving a costly engine disaster. The computer knows that if your vehicles voltage is lower than expected the fuel pump will be delivering less fuel, the injectors will open and close slower and some adjustments will be made to guard against engine damage. Install an underdrive pulley and you may end up underpowered.
You guys need to do a little more homework and put your ears to the ground before you waste your money.
Believe me, if I thought this would make power.... I would of bought this before the group buy.
It will inadvertently make power by way of less rotational mass and being under driven. I personally have quite a bit of previous experience with Underdrive pulleys on N/A cars and all lead to positive feedback.
There is a reason there were delays in the unveiling of the products availability, I'm sure it was being put to the test. EC is big enough and has a lot to lose to put something garbage on the street.
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2012 C63 AMG Sedan
Much like your claims that the pulley is worthless and are stammering on, what you are saying is all hearsay unless you can provide hard facts or evidence considering all of my searches have turned up little by way of pulley related issues.
It will inadvertently make power by way of less rotational mass and being under driven. I personally have quite a bit of previous experience with Underdrive pulleys on N/A cars and all lead to positive feedback.
There is a reason there were delays in the unveiling of the products availability, I'm sure it was being put to the test. EC is big enough and has a lot to lose to put something garbage on the street.
It will inadvertently make power by way of less rotational mass and being under driven. I personally have quite a bit of previous experience with Underdrive pulleys on N/A cars and all lead to positive feedback.
There is a reason there were delays in the unveiling of the products availability, I'm sure it was being put to the test. EC is big enough and has a lot to lose to put something garbage on the street.
A quick google search gave me a lot of info about underdrive pulleys. I started with what they are, to how they function, how they increase HP, and lastly what possible problems arise from it.
That being said, the problems with the alternator voltage dropping seems to be a common case. Many people install the underdrive pulley and an "overdrive" pulley on their alternators to balance them out.
Now a grain of salt, all the info I found seem to be off of Mustang forums and the like (since they seem to be the ones using them the most and they are ONLY $100!!!!).
Here are the links:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-mo...y-problem.html
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...-problems.html
and a quote from the second link: I hate those things, car will run hot, alternator slower...a butt clinching excercise on a hot day if you get stuck in traffic, not worth any tiny gain you might realize
and another quote: yes it does...but only to around 12.8-13.1 at the alternator..thats just enough to keep the battery charging..it still doesnt even make it to the halfway mark on the dash gauge (but im not using that has a end all be all) When you are at a light at night. The lights can get so dim it can be hard to tell the are on.
I am NOT saying Eurocharged does not have a quality product, and maybe they have tested it and same in our application there are NO PROBLEMS but that's for them to answer.
Just thought for people, like myself, who maybe didn't understand what exactly it does, this would be a helpful read.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,673
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From: Pittsburgh
C63 AMG
No offense, and since I don't care either way about this subject and had zero knowledge going into it.....based on what I learned, Petakii63 seems to make all valid points.
A quick google search gave me a lot of info about underdrive pulleys. I started with what they are, to how they function, how they increase HP, and lastly what possible problems arise from it.
That being said, the problems with the alternator voltage dropping seems to be a common case. Many people install the underdrive pulley and an "overdrive" pulley on their alternators to balance them out.
Now a grain of salt, all the info I found seem to be off of Mustang forums and the like (since they seem to be the ones using them the most and they are ONLY $100!!!!).
Here are the links:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-mo...y-problem.html
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...-problems.html
and a quote from the second link: I hate those things, car will run hot, alternator slower...a butt clinching excercise on a hot day if you get stuck in traffic, not worth any tiny gain you might realize
and another quote: yes it does...but only to around 12.8-13.1 at the alternator..thats just enough to keep the battery charging..it still doesnt even make it to the halfway mark on the dash gauge (but im not using that has a end all be all) When you are at a light at night. The lights can get so dim it can be hard to tell the are on.
I am NOT saying Eurocharged does not have a quality product, and maybe they have tested it and same in our application there are NO PROBLEMS but that's for them to answer.
Just thought for people, like myself, who maybe didn't understand what exactly it does, this would be a helpful read.
A quick google search gave me a lot of info about underdrive pulleys. I started with what they are, to how they function, how they increase HP, and lastly what possible problems arise from it.
That being said, the problems with the alternator voltage dropping seems to be a common case. Many people install the underdrive pulley and an "overdrive" pulley on their alternators to balance them out.
Now a grain of salt, all the info I found seem to be off of Mustang forums and the like (since they seem to be the ones using them the most and they are ONLY $100!!!!).
Here are the links:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-mo...y-problem.html
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...-problems.html
and a quote from the second link: I hate those things, car will run hot, alternator slower...a butt clinching excercise on a hot day if you get stuck in traffic, not worth any tiny gain you might realize
and another quote: yes it does...but only to around 12.8-13.1 at the alternator..thats just enough to keep the battery charging..it still doesnt even make it to the halfway mark on the dash gauge (but im not using that has a end all be all) When you are at a light at night. The lights can get so dim it can be hard to tell the are on.
I am NOT saying Eurocharged does not have a quality product, and maybe they have tested it and same in our application there are NO PROBLEMS but that's for them to answer.
Just thought for people, like myself, who maybe didn't understand what exactly it does, this would be a helpful read.
Maybe I am being duped here, but I have faith that EC has built and tested a quality product. I have had a chance to talk with some of the guys at EC on a pretty extensive level and would sleep perfectly fine knowing this pulley was on my car.
I'm not saying there will not be some neg sides from the pulley, but I feel comfy knowing that the product is built properly, and if any sides are present, they will be minimal.
I guess I am also resting as I know this isn't the first pulley to hit the streets for our car. The Revosport had great reviews and made around 10whp. I spoke with an individual running one on his C63 and claimed very minor changes in anything at all, other than the dyno proven 10hp he received.
Maybe EC will chime in and clear up the air...
What were the changes in voltage measured while testing the pulley?
What were the temps recorded with the pulley vs non-pulley?
What issues if any can we assume may be associated with running the pulley?
How did the C63 handle the reduced voltage, any other sides associated with this as discussed above?
How long was your test piece run before it has been offered for sale?
Thanks
Last edited by Autosport7; Jul 10, 2014 at 08:13 AM.
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C63 AMG
My Concern is over time if our engines are harmonically balanced, it may lead to long term issues. Since the C63 is a keeper for me I'm still looking at maintaining the longevity of the vehicle.
Now, I have had pulleys on my cars before without any issue. But I did not have the vehicles longer then 3-4 years.
I do agree that some of the vendors on here are not very forthcoming about info on there products for some reason. Just wish info on these mods are more accessible.
Now, I have had pulleys on my cars before without any issue. But I did not have the vehicles longer then 3-4 years.
I do agree that some of the vendors on here are not very forthcoming about info on there products for some reason. Just wish info on these mods are more accessible.
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2012 C63 AMG Sedan
My first car was a 82 Mustang GT, fun car but no technology at all back then. To be quite honest, you couldn't run a small amp with 8's in that car without seeing a huge dip in voltage. Not to mention running a pulley from eBay for $100.00 that is more-or-less designed for track use to aid in nothing more than 1/4 mile times.
Maybe I am being duped here, but I have faith that EC has built and tested a quality product. I have had a chance to talk with some of the guys at EC on a pretty extensive level and would sleep perfectly fine knowing this pulley was on my car.
I'm not saying there will not be some neg sides from the pulley, but I feel comfy knowing that the product is built properly, and if any sides are present, they will be minimal.
I guess I am also resting as I know this isn't the first pulley to hit the streets for our car. The Revosport had great reviews and made around 10whp. I spoke with an individual running one on his C63 and claimed very minor changes in anything at all, other than the dyno proven 10hp he received.
Maybe EC will chime in and clear up the air...
What were the changes in voltage measured while testing the pulley?
What were the temps recorded with the pulley vs non-pulley?
What issues if any can we assume may be associated with running the pulley?
How did the C63 handle the reduced voltage, any other sides associated with this as discussed above?
How long was your test piece run before it has been offered for sale?
Thanks
Maybe I am being duped here, but I have faith that EC has built and tested a quality product. I have had a chance to talk with some of the guys at EC on a pretty extensive level and would sleep perfectly fine knowing this pulley was on my car.
I'm not saying there will not be some neg sides from the pulley, but I feel comfy knowing that the product is built properly, and if any sides are present, they will be minimal.
I guess I am also resting as I know this isn't the first pulley to hit the streets for our car. The Revosport had great reviews and made around 10whp. I spoke with an individual running one on his C63 and claimed very minor changes in anything at all, other than the dyno proven 10hp he received.
Maybe EC will chime in and clear up the air...
What were the changes in voltage measured while testing the pulley?
What were the temps recorded with the pulley vs non-pulley?
What issues if any can we assume may be associated with running the pulley?
How did the C63 handle the reduced voltage, any other sides associated with this as discussed above?
How long was your test piece run before it has been offered for sale?
Thanks
I would think our biggest concern would be the temps recorded, as our cars are already prone to overheating and going into the dreaded limp mode.
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From: Pittsburgh
C63 AMG
Again, having had no prior knowledge about this other than what I learned in the past 24 hours, I think now you are asking all the right questions.
I would think our biggest concern would be the temps recorded, as our cars are already prone to overheating and going into the dreaded limp mode.
I would think our biggest concern would be the temps recorded, as our cars are already prone to overheating and going into the dreaded limp mode.
Now, I don't know that this is or is not the case with the EC Pulley, but from what I have learned, it is conceivable that the longer the coolant stays in the radiator (underdriven pulley can and most likely will be conducive to this behavior), the cooler it (coolant) becomes as that is how the design is intended to work. Therefore supplying the rest of the components with a cooler fluid in turn keeping the temps down.
Again, I want to be clear, these are not my words, or the words of EC, but some research study information I have been able to gather from reading other forum and website readings. I am not claiming this as fact, just maybe putting it out there for discussion for those who have a good handle on this and may be able to shed some light...
Ingenuir, where art thou? Help please.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
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From: Houston
C63S
We have been waiting on advertising the pulleys until they had been thoroughly tested. We have had a test group of customers install the pulley on their cars and have put several thousand miles on with zero issues. There have not been any complaints of accessories being affected by low voltage.
The 15 order mark has been reached and we will begin processing payments. For those in the USA, please Paypal $615 to sales@eurocharged.com and include your forum username so we know who you are. International customers please send us a PM to get your total cost. We will place the order for production as soon as all orders are paid.
The 15 order mark has been reached and we will begin processing payments. For those in the USA, please Paypal $615 to sales@eurocharged.com and include your forum username so we know who you are. International customers please send us a PM to get your total cost. We will place the order for production as soon as all orders are paid.
Last edited by sales@eurocharged.com; Jul 11, 2014 at 11:20 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 963
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From: USA
CL63 AMG
Fearmongering over the pulleys safety needs to stop, it's all nonsense. The pulley is harmonically dampened and been fully tested.
As long as you are not cheap and you actually get it installed by a legitimate mercedes shop then it is 100% safe. The aftermarket pulleys are actually BETTER balanced than the OEM ones. If you don't believe me high Rpm balance both and see which one is better... The results will surprise you. Concerns about under driving are valid, but that was from a time decades ago, now these modern motors can handle so much more than motors used to be able to cope with that this is a non issue.
As long as you are not cheap and you actually get it installed by a legitimate mercedes shop then it is 100% safe. The aftermarket pulleys are actually BETTER balanced than the OEM ones. If you don't believe me high Rpm balance both and see which one is better... The results will surprise you. Concerns about under driving are valid, but that was from a time decades ago, now these modern motors can handle so much more than motors used to be able to cope with that this is a non issue.
Senior Member
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C63
If they tested the product... Wouldn't there be results? Dyno? Logs of changes? Etc... The only proven pulley for this car is the evosport one. And, evosport is out of business.
Lighter underdrive pulley is not rocket science. If there is less rotational mass and less spin of the accessories, then intern there will be a net gain of hp/tq. The problem relies on how the pulley is made and if it is properly harmonically balanced.
Purpose of the harmonic balancer is to absorb some of the shock from internal combustion that occur at different times and locations on the crankshaft. The OEM balancer is engineered to the rotating weight and loading of stock engine. When internal or external engine modifications performed to enhance output this has some affect on engine harmonics. So if the pulley is not harmonically balanced it will cause damage. So basically all you guys who are buying this are the first to try out a product that hasn't been tested THOROUGHLY. Think about that.
Too much underdrive for a car that is run at the track is not much of a concern due to the high rpm's they run at... but for daily driven vehicles it can lead to a dead battery if too much time is spend at idle or low rpm.
If you eurocharged had a pulley out originally... Then, why would they need to be re-manufactured? Hmmm, odd...
Lighter underdrive pulley is not rocket science. If there is less rotational mass and less spin of the accessories, then intern there will be a net gain of hp/tq. The problem relies on how the pulley is made and if it is properly harmonically balanced.
Purpose of the harmonic balancer is to absorb some of the shock from internal combustion that occur at different times and locations on the crankshaft. The OEM balancer is engineered to the rotating weight and loading of stock engine. When internal or external engine modifications performed to enhance output this has some affect on engine harmonics. So if the pulley is not harmonically balanced it will cause damage. So basically all you guys who are buying this are the first to try out a product that hasn't been tested THOROUGHLY. Think about that.
Too much underdrive for a car that is run at the track is not much of a concern due to the high rpm's they run at... but for daily driven vehicles it can lead to a dead battery if too much time is spend at idle or low rpm.
If you eurocharged had a pulley out originally... Then, why would they need to be re-manufactured? Hmmm, odd...
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C63 AMG
they shouldn't be a problem
the alternator is regulated
the water pump and oil pump will run slower (pump less) but one is regulated by a stat the other a pressure relief valve...the stat will open more and the relief open later
power steering is bypassed at idel, it's a hydraulic circuit, no issue
same for AC, it's clutched
at a given rpm/load the water pump WILL pump the same based on cooling demand
the stat will open more so net volume and cooling is the same
since it pumps the same the power consumption is the same
you can do the same analysis for every device/machine
the alternator is regulated
the water pump and oil pump will run slower (pump less) but one is regulated by a stat the other a pressure relief valve...the stat will open more and the relief open later
power steering is bypassed at idel, it's a hydraulic circuit, no issue
same for AC, it's clutched
at a given rpm/load the water pump WILL pump the same based on cooling demand
the stat will open more so net volume and cooling is the same
since it pumps the same the power consumption is the same
you can do the same analysis for every device/machine
Thread Starter
SPONSOR
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
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From: Houston
C63S
Hey there guys, our first pulley was made in 2011 and tested for 6000 miles.
We then made a few small changes to it and tested now on 13 more cars from different parts of the world for over 4000 miles now with everything working 100%.
We aren't going to release something we aren't confident with. (that's why it took so long to release the V5)
Thanks !
We then made a few small changes to it and tested now on 13 more cars from different parts of the world for over 4000 miles now with everything working 100%.
We aren't going to release something we aren't confident with. (that's why it took so long to release the V5)
Thanks !
Last edited by sales@eurocharged.com; Jul 10, 2014 at 05:27 PM.
