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Whenever you drain all the coolant out, once refilled you need to let the car warm up. Set your hvac to full heat/defrost mode. leave the cap off the reservoir. Let the car reach operating temperature. Feel the heat coming out. If its not max heat melt your face off warmth you have air in the system. Rev the engine slightly or however much you're comfortable with to increase water flow/turbulence to help force air out of the heater core and all the other air pockets in the motor. While doing this top off as necessary.
Typically most benz cars when draining coolant (out radiator) and refilling it take roughly around 8qts or 2 jugs of coolant. hope that helps and good luck. Definitely check your oil.
Whenever you drain all the coolant out, once refilled you need to let the car warm up. Set your hvac to full heat/defrost mode. leave the cap off the reservoir. Let the car reach operating temperature. Feel the heat coming out. If its not max heat melt your face off warmth you have air in the system. Rev the engine slightly or however much you're comfortable with to increase water flow/turbulence to help force air out of the heater core and all the other air pockets in the motor. While doing this top off as necessary.
Typically most benz cars when draining coolant (out radiator) and refilling it take roughly around 8qts or 2 jugs of coolant. hope that helps and good luck. Definitely check your oil.
That's what I'll be doing today. Assuming the oil comes out clean, I'm just going to put everything back together and proceed as I normally would with bleeding the cooling system and see what happens. Like was said earlier, I just wanted to be 100% sure that nothing was getting into the cylinders and risk bending a rod. I'll let everyone know what transpires today, tonight.
Doing that this morning Merc63, it needed an oil change anyway and I want to make sure the oil is clean, so as soon as I get a filter from the dealership, it's coming out.
So, didn't get to drop the oil; spent my entire
morning scouring the greater Sacramento area for two bolts. Let this be a lesson to those who purchase the cam cap bolt set from Weistec; count how many you have when you get the shipment. I was two bolts short of the 40 that are necessary and I wasn't waiting for them to send me two bolts. At any rate, got everything else put back together and gonna pick up where I left off tomorrow morning and hopefully have this beast making noise and roasting tires again shortly.
So, here she is, all back together and running! Initially was a little tappy, but once I got some revs into it, the noise went away and settled down to be nice n quiet. So far, the only issue I'm dealing with is, the cooling system temperature just does not want to stabilize, almost like the t-stat is failing. I'm hoping it's just pockets of air in the system. It fluctuates between 80°-90°C. I've bled the system as best I can, and there's plenty of heat in the cabin, so at this point, I'm guessing I just need to put miles on it and top off as needed. There did end up being a tiny bit of water come out with the oil; I'm thinking when I pressurized the system to test everything and ended up with coolant in the problem cylinder, some coolant made it past the gasket into the crankcase. Only time will tell at this point. The misfire at idle and detonation at part throttle is gone and if I could just get the temp to stabilize, everything would be spectacular. I did end up with an oddball pending code in the ECM when I pulled codes; P1614 - IFI Control Module, microprocessor/fuel calculation? Anybody have any knowledge as to what that means? It's not illuminating the CEL, but it's stored and numerous attempts to clear it were ineffective. I'll let you guys know what happens from here!
How exactly do you set the cam timing with the tool? Is there a DIY for this?
I'm just confused on what exactly that plate in from of the cam gears does exactly?
Also, do the buckets (tappets) have to be replaced when doing this job?
I must admit, having seen the pictures here, I also was very confused about what role the tools played in setting the timing, but once you have everything apart, you see how simple it is and also how brilliant the design is. There are no dowels on the cams like there are on traditional cams, so the only way you get the cams in time with the rotating assembly is with those tools. Each cam has a machined surface near the front of the shaft that the big plate drops on top of. This holds both cams in place because the key to this whole process is making sure the entire rotating assembly is at 40 degrees BTDC. Why they picked that number instead of TDC, I'll never know, but it's what they chose. At any rate, getting everything to the magical 40 degrees was probably the most difficult part of the process; the timing mark on the block is incredibly difficult to see unless you have the radiator out and most of the accessories off the front of the engine. A small inspection mirror was my best friend for that task. At any rate, once everything is on that magical number, all the tools fall into place and you can start slowly removing cam caps. The reason you use that big plate to hold everything is because the exhaust cam on the driver's side and the intake cam on the passenger side have lobes that are fully activated on their eccentrics. So, if you were to try to do this job without them, one of two things will happen; either the cam will snap because the back of the shaft is trying to rotate while the cam gear is trying to stay engaged with the drive gear, or you'll break a tooth off either the cam gear or drive gear. The tools weren't cheap, I got mine for about $175 with free shipping from Amazon and the only thing I would change about the kit is, I would put another gear holder in the kit. Once you have everything timed using the holder tools, then the last part of the process is putting on the reluctor wheels for the phasers and making sure they are in time with the cams. Again, there are no dowels to ensure everything is in time, the tools set everything. The reluctor wheel timing plate has small dowels that fit into certain teeth in the reluctor wheels and once they're in the right spot, they can't move. Once you have everything in time, you torque the bolts down to 85 ft lbs and that's all that holds everything in place. Coming from a place where we use dowels to line everything up and keep everything in time, that made me pretty nervous. But, I suppose with twice the clamping force of what is normally used to secure a timing set with a dowel pin, it's probably safe. Finally, I do have a subscription to alldatadiy.com, but if you've ever used that, you know that all it's really good for is torque values. Don't plan on trying to tackle a job using just that. I had no DIY instructions, I went off what I'd read here and with the help of the alldata site, its just a matter of taking something apart methodically, documenting your progress as you go so you have a reference point, and carefully reassembling it the way it came apart. For most of us here, that's something we've done our entire lives with the lawn mower, the weed eater and anything else with an engine. Just work slowly and carefully, its nothing that someone who has disassembled and engine or two can't do with the right tools and research. I have a bunch of footage of me completing this task with gopro cameras that I'm going to try and edit and post to youtube, but we'll see how that goes.
Additionally, you asked about the buckets and my answer is no, they don't HAVE to be replaced, but I sure was glad I did. I posted a few pics of the buckets that came out of my 25k mi engine and it was SCARY how much wear they'd sustained in a very short period of time. I have no doubt that those things would have caused some form of destruction at some point. You could see very pronounced wear marks in more than one of them where they'd either run dry and there was metal on metal contact or they just weren't holding enough pressure to maintain the proper clearance and there was a gap between the cam lobe and bucket. The buckets are essentially hydraulic lifters that maintain a given clearance between the cam and the valve stem. By the lifter noise mine would occasionally make at start up or anytime the oil level got just a little too low, my guess is that the issue with the lifters has to do with their pressure holding capabilities. Either that or the recommended oil viscosity is way too low for this engine. I have a feeling that has something to do with the phaser failures as well. The phasers are nothing more than hydraulically actuated, electronically controlled, pressure switches, just like what's in your automatic transmission. They have three separate rings that hold the pressure in passages that either retard or advance the cams based on desired conditions. Judging by the amount of wear mine already had on them, I have serious doubts about the long term reliability of this engine using that low viscosity oil that it calls for. I switched mine to 10W-30 just as a precaution, we'll see how that plays out. I'll admit, I'm not an engineer, chemist or physicist, just basing my opinion on what I saw and how I feel about low viscosity oil.
I have serious doubts about the long term reliability of this engine using that low viscosity oil that it calls for. I switched mine to 10W-30 just as a precaution, we'll see how that plays out.
Typo? That's a lower viscosity at operating temp. I would NOT use a 30 weight in this motor.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Or a 10W for that matter ^
From what I know (Diabolis to chime in any minute...), we need at a minimum 0W or 5W due to the small size of the oil passages, and the need for oil to get to the top of the engine FAST when cold. And then of course, with how hot our oil gets, a 30W is not close to being enough. Reconsider please. I'm even considering the Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 (off the charts ZDDP and zinc), but am still researching the detergent package (close to normal), and how quickly it breaks down/acidifies when left in for normal intervals.
Typo? That's a lower viscosity at operating temp. I would NOT use a 30 weight in this motor.
I'm by no means claiming to be an expert, but is not the viscosity rating of an oil backwards? The first number is the viscosity when warm and the second number is the viscosity when cold? For example, a 20w-50 weight oil will perform as a 50 weight oil when cold and a 20 weight oil when warm? That being said, I thought all MB engines took 0W-30? Am I wrong? I figured the heavier weight oil when warm would help cling better when warm and not jeopardize the cold lubricating characteristics. I was considering change going the oil after a few hundred miles anyway, just to make sure everything was working well together, so I'll defer to you guys and your experience with these engines as to what the right thing to do is.
Or a 10W for that matter ^
From what I know (Diabolis to chime in any minute...), we need at a minimum 0W or 5W due to the small size of the oil passages, and the need for oil to get to the top of the engine FAST when cold. And then of course, with how hot our oil gets, a 30W is not close to being enough. Reconsider please. I'm even considering the Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 (off the charts ZDDP and zinc), but am still researching the detergent package (close to normal), and how quickly it breaks down/acidifies when left in for normal intervals.
Again, I'm not even close to being an expert, just asking questions at this point, but isn't ZDDP(zinc dithiophospate) only necessary for old flat tappet engines? The reason I have experience with ZDDP is because my 68 charger 440 chewed up a cam lobe a few years ago because a more ignorant version of myself did not realize that modern oils have no ZDDP in it (and I was using regular oil) because it damages the catalyst of modern vehicles. 5 years on the new one with high ZDDP content oil and nary a problem. However, now that I think about it, the M156 uses old flat tappet style "lifters", not a roller setup, so maybe the ZDDP is a wise choice??? Please school me if I'm incorrect! Thanks guys!
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by jclaus98
Again, I'm not even close to being an expert, just asking questions at this point, but isn't ZDDP(zinc dithiophospate) only necessary for old flat tappet engines? The reason I have experience with ZDDP is because my 68 charger 440 chewed up a cam lobe a few years ago because a more ignorant version of myself did not realize that modern oils have no ZDDP in it (and I was using regular oil) because it damages the catalyst of modern vehicles. 5 years on the new one with high ZDDP content oil and nary a problem. However, now that I think about it, the M156 uses old flat tappet style "lifters", not a roller setup, so maybe the ZDDP is a wise choice??? Please school me if I'm incorrect! Thanks guys!
Exactly - we have flat tappets/lifters. That's why I'm looking for a high ZDDP/zinc oil in the right viscosity range and a normal detergent package so that I won't have to change it out every 500mi. M1 0W-40 Euro Formula is pretty much recognized as the best synthetic oil when you factor in these three variables (weight, additive package, detergents/stability).
Exactly - we have flat tappets/lifters. That's why I'm looking for a high ZDDP/zinc oil in the right viscosity range and a normal detergent package so that I won't have to change it out every 500mi. M1 0W-40 Euro Formula is pretty much recognized as the best synthetic oil when you factor in these three variables (weight, additive package, detergents/stability).
Any idea where that's available? You'd mentioned considering the 0W-50, what are the pros/cons of using that over the 0W-40??? Also, have you done any research into whether or not the ZDDP will effect the catalyst???
11-06-2015, 06:45 PM
