Autosport7

Is there anyone here running race fuel 365 days a year? Is this a good idea? Will it hurt anything over the long run, other than the wallet?
I ask because I have a local gas station that sells 104 octane. I ran it in my dirtbikes when I raced motocross, but never in my cars.
From what I understand, the higher the octane, the more branches of fuel and the slower and cooler it burns. This sounds to me like it would actually be better for the car. Now, having said that, it would also appear that EC could send me another tune file that will increase hp by like 20bhp or something if I am running race fuel.
If I were to run the race tune, can you then only run race fuel in it or can you run 93 in it on that tune as well? This part of the question may be a better suited question to ask EC.

Sorry but this is one area I have no experience in.
What are your thoughts on all of this?

rediesel

Make sure you get unleaded as there are leaded race fuels available too. I'm sure a tune would unleash the full potential, but I suspect that running 98 or 100 would give an improvement over the 10% EtOH 93 available at the pumps. Pitt Race sells a selection http://www.pittrace.com/faq and the Sunoco site is a wealth of information http://www.racegas.com/.

Autosport7

I am 99% sure it is unleaded, I will double check.
I am just curious if there are any downfalls / negs to running it all the time, or if that is something you should only do on occasions....

rediesel

You mean other than the $10/gal cost? If I had made it to the track yesterday I was going to fill up with some. When I was at the AMG DA at Laguna Seca they were filling up the cars with race gas afterward.

Autosport7

LOL yeah it is pricey, but I only put about 10 miles a week on my car 'ordinarily', so to splurge on this, it actually gets spread out over a few weeks. lol

Manofsteelpt

Here's a piggy back to the OPs question... If you are running 93, do you have to run it out to start the Race fuel and tune? And again, to swap back, run out the race fuel before adding the 93 and normal tune?

Petakii63

Nothing would happen to the car. In fact the car would run better than on pump gas. I recommend vp fuel. Preferably, the streetblaze or ms109. And, make sure it's unleaded. You'll kill you oxygen sensors if it isn't. The major problem is the tune. A EC pump gas file, can only advance timing so much before the ECU's limit is reached. So in reality, you'll be wasting your money since you won't be able to use the fuel to it's full potential.

Autosport7

Gotcha, and this all makes perfect sense.
So if I were to run the Race Tune File, can I then resort back to utilizing 93 at any given time, or since my timing will then be more advanced due to the tune, I should not run a lesser octane fuel?

Ingenieur

unless the tune can take advantage of it (advance timing) or you have a high compression ratio, no real advantage

better to mix

Autosport7

I guess where my real question lies, is this, What if I am running a Race Tune File and I am nowhere near a gas station that offers a race fuel, will I do any harm to the vehicle running 93 octane while running this race map?

Petakii63

If you were to run race gas for the first time, you need to mix it. Say two gallons premium pump and 2 gallons race gas. At first, you won't notice much. You need to do a few WOT bursts so that the ECU recognizes the better fuel. Let the car get low on fuel and then run straight race gas. This would have given time for the car to properly adjust. And, I recommend vp streetblaze which is street legal unleaded 100 oct. Anything higher is waste since you don't have a power adder like nitrous or a blower. After you run out of race gas. Simply fill up with pump and go back to your pump gas file. Done. The ecu will take care of the rest. Our ECU's are amazing in the way they adapt.

Petakii63

This is true. If you tune sucks. Your not gonna benefit.

And, sometimes you can make more power by simply improving the octane of pump gas. Mixing is also a great option.

Petakii63

No. The ecu would retard timing. Our ECU's are so Sophisticated that they will put the car in limp mode to protect itself.

Autosport7

Well this is good to know.
I am going to contact EC and have them send me a race file. I will probably run an 80/20 split 80% 104 oct / 20% 93 oct with the race tune and see how she pulls.
I gotta get my buddy back out in his CTS-V for a good comparison as to how I run against him with the V5 Race Tune, vs how I did against him with the regular V4 tune.
I am thinking it will be a different race altogether, even though I wouldn't say I lost against him originally, just didn't like how close it was... lol

Petakii63

Give the car a min of 70 miles to adjust before you run him.

I think your gonna have a very hard time walking a ctsv without headers... There's only so much this car can do even with the most aggressive map and higher octane... This car is really held back from those manifolds... It's just choked up. IMHO. The money you would spend on running race fuel, your better off putting it towards a set of headers and mids...

And, race gas would work much better with a power adder like nitrous or a blower. Then you can truly take advantage of the higher octane.

There's no shortcuts to making power the right way. Believe me, there's a lot of wrong ways to do it.

If you wanna do it right, get some data logging tools like dash daq... Etc. you need to see what the car is doing if you want to make the most power safely.

Autosport7

Interesting you should say that.
We had a number of runs that all kind of ended the same way.

40mph rolling pulls.
When we had good starts, (as you know tough to do perfectly in unofficial racing) I would pull him initially by about a 1/2 car, through til he had to up-shift, then I would pull another 1/2 car. I would hold him right there until we hit about 130-ish and would seem he would start reeling me in ever so slightly. He would never pass me and the closest he came was about 140 he came back up to my passenger side rr door.
I thought that this little added boost may make the difference in top end....

Autosport7

I say all, but we had 4 or 5 runs and only 2 of which I would say were "fair" runs start to finish.

CPD SLK

Not sure if this helps, but here in CA we only have 91 octane as premium. Luckily I found a somewhat local gas station that has race gas in 94, 96 and 100 octanes. When I called Velos about my tune (Which was done for 91 octane), I asked if I could put in race gas for better performance. He said I should try to put in 94 or mix the 100 with 91 to average out near 94 octanc, and that it will help the car run a bit better.

Autosport7

Great info, I appreciate it.

GRP

Do race fuels contain the detergents/cleansers that you get in the higher octane road fuels?

Autosport7

That's a good question. The fuel I am trying to utilize is a pump found fuel called Turbo Blue. I don't think it is considered a "race fuel" per say, but it is 104 octane. I haven't bought it in years, I hope they still offer it.
I am at 1/2 tank of fuel right now and plan on throwing it in this weekend for a 50/50 mix and see if I can notice anything after the computer recognizes it.

roadtalontsi

Just a side note. I would never run a race gas tune with pump gas. Sure you have knock sensors but they only work so fast and once knock is detected - damage is occuring. No harm in running unleaded race gas as mentioned on a regular tune. Your fuel consumption will get worse (like that matters) but the ecu will be able to give full timing advance that the tune allows. It'll also help aid in really hot temperatures which also cause detontation and preignition if you're in a desert region.

Autosport7

I swung by that gas station I knew that carried "Turbo Blue" (104 oct), they no longer carry it. What they DO carry now is VP101 and VP110. The 101 is a street legal "unleaded" fuel, and the 110 is a leaded fuel.
I placed my car at the pump with exactly 1/2 tank looking to fill her the rest of the way up with the 101 and wouldn't you know it, there was a yellow cover over the handle saying "out of order". Lol they were out but expected the delivery to be made in the next few days.

I'm excited to see if I can notice a difference running it.

Those local to Pittsburgh, it is called Purvis Brothers and is right off rt228 in Mars.