ZephyrAMG

I am posing this to discuss. I am going to state some FACTS. Give me your known FACTS.

- A tune leaves a residue. When a dealership connects to your OBD port, they can spot the residue of an aftermarket tune. This is a FACT.
- A dealership can pull up MONTHS of information on how you drove your car. It is all logged onto the ECU. This is a FACT.
- The ECU gets CORRUPT with each time it's flashed. EACH TIME. Hence engine issues, mapping issues, possible CEL and the system not being fluid. The corruption is something that tuners want to deny. The ECU is corrupted with each flash. This is a FACT.

These are facts that I know. Can anyone educate me differently?
Not bashing any tuners. Really just want what's best for my car. Just want the truth.

abcut973

When you say FACTS you mean you read it somewhere or have experienced these facts?
I don't know about the residue and ECU flashing but I know with the proper software you can get the car driving history. I just don't know if a dealer would be willing to give you that information for free.

Autosport7

I am a little confused by your post.
If you know these theories for "FACT", then why are you asking for someone to "educate" you to prove different?
Fact is Fact, opinions are opinions, Facts cant be proven otherwise.


Are you trying to say your theories have been solidified by an individual with what he thinks is proven evidence of what you are stating? In return asking if we can refute that evidence to prove otherwise?

ZephyrAMG

Fact as in I have consulted with experts in the field. People who know both sides of the story. People who have many years experience working with tunes, ECUs, and with dealership diagnostic computer system and information recovery.

ZephyrAMG

Sure, let me make it clear for you. I know this information to be facts. As in, truth to the points I made. Are these comments that I make as FACTS wrong, incorrect and am I completely misguided?

Autosport7

All I know is my car runs like a Biotch since tuned, I also know I have no known issues at this time. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I am fairly certain that if there were going to be a problem, it would have shown its face by now... I hope.

Jasonoff

Curious how these facts were proven.

Autosport7

So you are stating second hand knowledge as "fact" based on the reputation and experience your sources have, and would like to know if someone out there can prove them wrong to then correct your train of thought and decision making with regard to tuning your car...?

bhamg

I've always believed all three conditions as stated by Zeph to be true. And I do regular directory, file and disk diagnostics and repairs on my computers. I always expect to find some kind of new file corruption minor as it may be sometimes and every time, I do. I don't see why ECU flashing would be different - it strikes me more as a luck of the draw situation.

ML63 AMG

OP has no idea what he is talking about ... FACT

BAD430BENZ

If you want what's best for your car , leave it alone

CarHopper

Head tech at local MB dealer told me that they can really find anything, just depends on how much time they want to spend digging through the car.

Jasonoff

So you have data to back up this claim? If so, can you please share?

glennhl

These facts may or may not be true. This is a fact.

ZephyrAMG

As stated, I'm not here to bash tunes or tuners or anyone who has a tune. I am impressed by tunes and thing that it is part of the fun of ownership and modding and this platform has responded well.

I can go ape **** on this forum and start attacking back at those who want to be negative and have a grand old time doing so but won't. I have made many friends here and have no interest in being negative. This is an awesome forum. I just want to know if I am wrong with what I know to be true.

Let's just discuss maturely and respectfully...

rediesel

I think some of the issues Zeph brings up are real; however, a quality tuner has likely minimized the effects and made the risk really low. Don't get a no-name tune! We're talking about computers and bits of data so I wouldn't be suprised if the tuners (hackers) can out program the dealers in order to hide their residue. I don't know the code involved in the ECU, but as they normally store data and run/adjust various programms there is risk that they corrupt themselves from normal use like any computer system.

The only reason I'd get a tune is if I got headers, and I'm trying to avoid the temptation. That said I'd love to re-flash my ECU/TCU to make it drive like that day I got it. I guess it has learned that I'm soft. Is this easily done?

Edit: I found the TCU reset procedure - gonna try it after work. Is there an ECU reset too?

ZephyrAMG

It is knowledge and information gathered from the experience of several people I know who have worked in this field. As far as published tests and journal publications? I have none.

Autosport7

Yeah I was joshin ya a bit, but get what you are saying.
If I had to guess, I would say they can be detected if thoroughly examined.

ZephyrAMG

All the gathered knowledge and experience I have understood from talking to people who know the "science" behind it have pointed in the direction that these statements are true and can be considered as facts that these things do occur.

My biggest beef is the fact that the reflashing and continuous reverting between tunes causes detrimental corruption to the ECU. That's not good.

rediesel

I get that you can only copy and paste (over simplification) so many times, but how many times (10, 100, 10x10^9)?

Jasonoff

So no proof from a Merc Star Diagnostic scanner connected to a C63 with a tune that has been loaded once or several times?

ZephyrAMG

Unfortunately, people who have worked with ECUs have told me it's not known exactly how many times, but it's far less than desired. That's what concerns me. Is that is flashing and re flashing going to result in a fried ECU pretty quickly? The ECUs for the C63 are not easy to get. As far as just calling up to get a replacement part-type-easy...

This is where I would like another pro to chime in.

-Marlin-

Computer forensics are a funny thing. When someone is motivated enough, they can find the tracks left behind after the flash has been done to an ECU and this is yesterday's technology. It will be stored in the log and stamped with date and time.

I have always been incredulous regarding tunes and warranties. There is big money to be made....and horsepower....... By a tune but I weigh it in terms of the liability on my end.

If a tuner said they can flash your car for the low, low price of $700 and reassured you many times that it could be re flashed back to stock to avoid a warranty issue, would you believe them before the sale?

And if the answer is yes, do you think you would be able to get a hold of them to cover the cost of repairs that were warranty voided due to the flash being found by a motivated tech if something went wrong?

If you answered yes to both these questions, have I got the perfect bridge for you!

My car is stock and I love it and will keep it that way. Maybe some rims and springs, a cf big fin diffuser and front lip thrown in, but you get the idea.

Autosport7

Valid points, but I'm 33, I've got quite a bit (I hope) of time before I have to be sensible. For now... Rock out with ya c@ck out!

-Marlin-

"It's my damn car and I'll do whatever I damn well please!" makes sense to me too.

Tune it Baby!!

I'm not a risk taker by nature. I can certainly appreciate those that want to squeeze every ounce of power out of her.