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Ditching Mobil 1 - NA (Has anyone done any research on the other approved brands?)

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Ditching Mobil 1 - NA (Has anyone done any research on the other approved brands?)

 
Old 11-06-2014, 08:58 AM
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Ditching Mobil 1 - NA (Has anyone done any research on the other approved brands?)

Now that I'm outside of factory warranty I will likely stop using Mobil 1 since there are higher quality oils approved. I'm located in North America so I'm not looking at the 229.51 spec sheet at all.

Engine Oil Approval Guide
MB Sheet 223.2: https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

Gasoline Engines - Worldwide (except Western Europe) -

M 152, M 157, M 133, M 156, M 159, M 275, M 277, M 279, M 285 (Maybach)
and AMG engines except M 155 (SLR)

229.5
Multigrade
  • 2.)

2.) Restriction: Only SAE 0W-40 und SAE 5W-40 engine oils are allowed !
Summary: Spec 229.5 only SAE 0W-40 and SAE 5W-40 are approved.

229.5 Spec: http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

With the above in mind has anyone done any actual research (not personal opinion) on any of the other approved oils listed?

If I can find it here in Canada (likely not lol) I'm considering a switch to Shell Helix Ultra or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:48 AM
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I recall a massive thread (or multiple) regarding oil for our cars.

From memory it was pretty heated in the end. LOL. (Oh we are so passionate!)
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by AMG893 View Post
I recall a massive thread (or multiple) regarding oil for our cars.

From memory it was pretty heated in the end. LOL. (Oh we are so passionate!)
Those were mainly.
  • What oil is allowed
  • 0W40 vs 5W40
  • Mobil Forumla M ESP vs Non ESP

Also why I stated actual research vs personal opinion...
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:43 AM
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Maybe start with a simpler question: Which oils from the approved 229.5 list are even available in the US and in Canada?


Probably a very short list. If The Mobil 1 is the only one that can be found, then that is it.
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Old 11-06-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Wobble64 View Post
Maybe start with a simpler question: Which oils from the approved 229.5 list are even available in the US and in Canada?


Probably a very short list. If The Mobil 1 is the only one that can be found, then that is it.
Both I mentioned are radially available in the US.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:47 AM
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Good friend of mine in the UK owns a MB independent and uses 5W40 Petronas, been using it for over a year now, it now uses much less than it used too when running Mobile.

MB Brooklands also use Petronas 5W40 on all C63's over here.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/30074...f14=108&ff19=0

AMG F1 & Petronas can't be that bad if AMG F1 associates itself with them either !

https://www.pli-petronas.com/products/am_syntium.aspx


Hope that helps

Last edited by Dazzagt; 11-07-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:24 PM
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Thanks for the info. Looks decent on paper (TechSheet).

Wonder what the zinc/phos numbers are?
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:42 PM
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Shell owns Pennzoil and their oils (at least the base stocks) come from the same plants, so you'd essentially be getting the same oil with perhaps very slightly different additive packages. And, of the 229.5 oils that are available in NA, the Mobil 1 0W40 is the best in terms of engine protection for all-around, everyday street use. There were actually two recent threads, and in at least one of them I was discussing the actual properties of Mobil 1 0W40 and some of the other ones (I think someone liked the 229.5 Motul a lot).


What you need to take into account is that the 229.5 spec isn't just about engine protection, but also about the change interval, fuel economy and low emissions (the 229.51 and .52 specs are even worse for engine wear but better than the 229.5 for the fuel savings & eco friendliness). It's a bit of a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type scenario. If you are asking what is the best all-around oil THAT IS 229.5 APPROVED for your engine and that you can buy in NA, I am afraid the Mobil 1 0W40 is very near if not at the top of the list. If on the other hand you are asking about a better oil for a specific purpose, that's a whole different discussion - but you would both need to abandon the 229.5 spec AND sacrifice somethign else, whether it is fuel economy, tailpipe emiions, how frequently you need to change it, whether you can use it in the winter, etc.
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:13 AM
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Yeah, that's why I mentioned both the Helix Ultra and Ultra Euro since they're virtually the same. Which Motul?

Couldn't give a ***** about emissions. The question is, what's better for the engine?

Yeah, the 0W40 does have a decent amount of wear protection (I forget the PPM numbers) over the 5W40 which is better suited for the flat tappet design. Isn't it just a Group III base stock though?
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Old 11-08-2014, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasonoff View Post
Yeah, that's why I mentioned both the Helix Ultra and Ultra Euro since they're virtually the same. Which Motul?

Couldn't give a ***** about emissions. The question is, what's better for the engine?

Yeah, the 0W40 does have a decent amount of wear protection (I forget the PPM numbers) over the 5W40 which is better suited for the flat tappet design. Isn't it just a Group III base stock though?
This VOA was posted on BITOG after the changeover to API SN which theoretically makes what you see here the current formula you will buy off the shelf at Wally's World. The equivalent Motul is the 8100 X-cess 5W-40. Total ZDDP levels are virtually identical in both. I use the Motul in part because the temp simply does not drop below 45º ever where I live, and because of its excellent base stock. Both are great oils. If I were in a Northern climate I might use the M1.
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Old 11-08-2014, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bhamg View Post
This VOA was posted on BITOG after the changeover to API SN which theoretically makes what you see here the current formula you will buy off the shelf at Wally's World. The equivalent Motul is the 8100 X-cess 5W-40. Total ZDDP levels are virtually identical in both. I use the Motul in part because the temp simply does not drop below 45º ever where I live, and because of its excellent base stock. Both are great oils. If I were in a Northern climate I might use the M1.
What about the 8100 X-Max 0W40?

https://www.motul.com/system/product...pdf?1381853212
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:40 PM
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Just did 3300 miles at a tank at a time 300 miles
75-80 mph
Used a 1/2 qt
Mobil 1 0w40
imho hard to do better than Mobil
Especially at $50 for 10 qts
Each oil has strength weaknesses but Mobil has been continuously improved over 30 years
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:47 PM
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Maybe I'm just hung up on the AMG decision to move to 5W40 with no apparent reason.

Maybe the whole capillary action issue is just a load of BS...
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:53 PM
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The lifters may drain faster with the 0w40 but conversely should pump up faster
In reallity no difference since the weight is the same when the engine is hot ie shut down
And that is when most drains and mostly on the lifter that randomly aligns its oriface with the fill port
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Old 11-08-2014, 11:00 PM
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The 0W40 is actually thicker at 100°C than the 5W40...

A "dry" start could be damaging though. Also very sketchy why AMG has never released the "why" for the switch.
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jasonoff View Post
I don't see this oil on the US website. I do know, however, that the 0W-40 that was formerly there (and it could be this very oil) was ester-based. Perhaps it was too expensive to produce for its market slot?

Last edited by bhamg; 11-09-2014 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bhamg View Post
I don't see this oil on the US website. I do know, however, that the 0W-40 that was formerly there (and it could be this very oil) was ester-based. Perhaps it was too expensive to produce for its market slot?
Humm, I thought only the 300V racing oil line was ester based. I will find out on Monday if my Motul guy can get it in.

https://www.motul.com/us/en-us/community/446

Originally Posted by Motul
300V Motorsport Range, 8100 or 6100? Which oil should I choose?

Our 300V Motorsport range of lubricants are specifically formulated for racing applications. They are based around Motul’s unique ESTER Core® technology which combines the best performing synthetic base oils including esters with bespoke dedicated chemical additives.
The result is unrivalled power increase, outstanding lubrication and optimal protection, the best conditions for ultimate victory! These lubricants have been developed for leading Factory Racing Teams Worldwide, but also have exactly the same availability to the general public!

8100 is Motul’s top of the range passenger car engine oil based on 100% synthetic technology containing esters. These products meet the up to date and most demanding OEM engine oil approval requirements. 8100 lubricants are available in the latest and fuel-efficient 0W grades. 8100 lubricants are the safest way to keep your engine protected and operating the way it was designed to, fully compliant with the car’s warranty, whether it is in stop-and-start traffic or at full speed on the motorways.
6100 is based around Motul’s Technosynthese® technology containing esters. 6100 Products come with a multitude of official OEM approvals making sure you are using the right oil for your car. 6100 is designed to be price competitive without sacrificing on quality and performance. They are available in a wide range of popular viscosity grades.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:23 PM
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I'm gonna try AMSOIL European blend out.
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Old 11-09-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jasonoff View Post
Humm, I thought only the 300V racing oil line was ester based. I will find out on Monday if my Motul guy can get it in.
OK, I called a friend of mine who is a long-time user of Motul products in cars and bikes. He concurs that the 0W-40 was the only Motul oil in the "consumer" line of oils that specifically mentioned the word "ester" on the website, and that the wording as such went back well in the 2000's. The formulation of oils frequently changes over time while the name remains the same (witness the Castrol TWS I used in two M cars that today is a vastly different oil then when it was introduced).

A little further investigation suggests that the product data sheet that you linked is outdated (not surprising to me). While it describes the 0W-40 as "Full SAPS" the oil is described as "Mid-SAPS" on the Worldwide Western European websites for individual countries. My observations have been that ZDDP levels have continually decline over time. Perhaps Motul has retooled the 0W-40 already as suggested by it presence in W. Europe markets and will relaunch it in the U.S.
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Old 11-09-2014, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bhamg View Post
OK, I called a friend of mine who is a long-time user of Motul products in cars and bikes. He concurs that the 0W-40 was the only Motul oil in the "consumer" line of oils that specifically mentioned the word "ester" on the website, and that the wording as such went back well in the 2000's. The formulation of oils frequently changes over time while the name remains the same (witness the Castrol TWS I used in two M cars that today is a vastly different oil then when it was introduced).

A little further investigation suggests that the product data sheet that you linked is outdated (not surprising to me). While it describes the 0W-40 as "Full SAPS" the oil is described as "Mid-SAPS" on the Worldwide Western European websites for individual countries. My observations have been that ZDDP levels have continually decline over time. Perhaps Motul has retooled the 0W-40 already as suggested by it presence in W. Europe markets and will relaunch it in the U.S.
I linked to the newest (2013) datasheet I could find.

MOTUL 8100 ESTER E-TECH 0W-40: http://www.motorspot.com/8100ow40.html
Datasheet from 2010: https://www.motul.com/system/product...pdf?1303768781

Looks like the ester based product was scrapped.
http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewt...hp?f=2&t=81271
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Old 11-09-2014, 06:42 PM
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^ Interesting. The "polarity" advantage of an ester base doesn't exist with the use of aluminum blocks, no? Or perhaps with our hot-plasma sprayed (with iron content) blocks it'll still cling longer?
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:56 PM
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I been using a Amsoil European blend for years.
Also, when I went cat less I switched Amsoil Race oil.
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl901 View Post
I been using a Amsoil European blend for years.
Also, when I went cat less I switched Amsoil Race oil.
Awesome! I have a set for my next service! Does it meet all the necessary specs for the M156?

Also, have you noticed any difference in oil temps or oil usage? Doubtful, but doesn't hurt to ask...
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:06 PM
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Yes Amsoil meet all specs. You can order it on line and they ship it same day.
Oil temps in M156 I have never seen then lower via oil.
Tracking I still run consistently260 to 265 degrees.
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:31 PM
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Amsoil is not on the bevo approved list? http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html

Castrol Edge 5w40 is
It's what I used in my RS4

Last edited by Ingenieur; 11-09-2014 at 09:35 PM.
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