Vladds

So, here's what the WIS says, on a general level, to get the heads out:
-Fan unit out
-Alternator out
-Chain tensioner out
-Now drain coolant both at radiator and at crankcase
-Remove converter from exhaust manifold
-Remove intake manifold
-Remove spark plugs
-Rotate crankshaft until the scribed 40 degree mark on the pulley/vibration damper corresponds to the scribed mark on the timing case (gota hand it to Mercedes of not making grammar mistakes in the WIS and not calling it a "dampener")

From this point on LH head instructions:
-Remove valve cover
-Remove Intake and Exhaust adjusters
-Remove camshaft drive gear
-Remove camshafts
-Remove air shutoff valve
-Remove oil filter housing
-Pull guide rail pins
-Loosen cylinder head bolts in stages in reverse order of tightening procedure and remove them
-Remove cylinder head from crankcase

From This point on RH Head instructions:
-Remove valve cover
-Disconnect connector from coolant temp sensor
-Remove Intake and Exhaust cam adjusters
-Remove Camshaft drive gear
-Remove air shutoff valve
-Remove guide pulley
-Remove side rail pins and tensioning rail pins
-Loosen cylinder head bolts in stages in reverse order of tightening procedure and remove them
-Remove cylinder head from crankcase

then:
-Clean surfaces with non abrasive means , blow out threaded holes of head bolts with compressed air, clean off engine oil and coolant. Then it says "Use cleaner from package". The cleaner is Wurth BR00.45-Z-1028-04A
-Reinstall in reverse order
-Oil and filter change
-Start engine and check for leaks
-Teach in of the camshaft adjusters, using Xentry

-

James115

interesting also i was thinking how to clean and this is a Good suggestion

Vladds

The part number of the camshaft retaining device is 156589006100

Looks like it's $335 for a kit for one head.
Here is where the problem is:
There is an instruction set for removing the heads and an instruction set for camshafts for a head. I bet one references the other. But then, let's see if there's a note somewhere in the heads removing instructions saying that you have to block the camshafts on both heads first.

And yes, I found it. Both heads must be locked., you just have to dig a bit deeper into the WIS's.
The document number is:
AR05.20-P-6010AMG Check basic position of camshafts from 14/11/2019

Here is how you navigate the WIS:
Once you're in the right section for the C63, select engine timing, remove/install camshaft adjusters.

So, as you read about removing the camshafts, there's a link at the step of removing the adjusters, which has a link in that procedure to check the timing position, which tells you to lock all 4 cams. There's a big sign saying that the document for remove install the camshaft adjusters was completely revised in 2019.
so, looks like the price for locking the cams just went to $670.

James115

yes i bought one

Vladds

Also, on a less by-the-book level, there's a channel on youtube that I watch sometimes, legitstreetcars.
The guy, Alex, says he's a Mercedes tech.
He locks both sides of the M156, both heads at the same time as well.

There's a channel of another guy that has a relatively detailed video on doing bolt-by-bolt on an E class. His video stops right before he starts the engine. When it restarts, he says he had some problems, asked around and that he was told that he should have locked both sides, both heads. He doesn't go into detail of what sort of problems he had.

Vladds

So now, about cam adjusters:
While much has been written about them and about how, although they changed part numbers, they remain basically the same, this is not the case.
Remember the backlash tool that appears in some videos and instructions and then not much is said about it?

Well.... the question for me is:
How many of THOSE should you buy? 4?

Here's the answer:
there ARE differences in the camshaft adjusters, some have threaded holes for backlash locking. In those, you just install in each and every single one of them the locking bolts.
Otherwise, if you don't have the threaded holes, then yes, you have to buy 4 gearlash locking devices and lock everyone of them.

The part number for this is 156589016300 looks like around $120 for each, so to lock all adjusters, it costs $480.

Adding with the cost to lock the cams, here's $1000 in tools with single use, of the $3000 that was quoted to me by the dealer in labor only, to replace the headgaskets and bolts, back in 2016.
That's why I was in no big hurry to do this.
Also, there surely are chinese copies of these, which are much cheaper and there is on the forum an understanding of which of them may be ... good.
I prefer to not find out the hard way which were good and therefore just buy mercedes branded locking tools.

Vladds

As a short deviation in this conversation:
You should see some of the "gems" awaiting us in the newer AMG 4 cylinder engines.
The M139, that pumps out 420 in the A45 and I think 475 in the current C63 hybrid, has a toothed belt that drives the oil pump. That thing is burried so deep in the engine, that it goes in first during assembly, just after the crankshaft is secured and ready. Being that it's burried so deep, they had to simplify and ... didn't design a tensioner into that belt drive. So therefore, you have to use an extractor to get the belt out and then press the new belt in. And the pump is not a oil pump as much as it is a oil/vacuum pump. In these engines, even in my M133, the predecessor, they can't use the engine vacuum anymore and use a vacuum pump....

James115

this tool 156589016300 is alteady in the main tool, and it is used only in the oldest M156, in the newest you can fit 1 bolt for each cam adjuster the bolts has bern told many Times are M5x8.
i don’t think at the dealer you pay only 3500 for the buckets, the camshaft and the head job. Also i don’t like they remove the heads and machine these

James115

are you talking about Rovel? Accents on car,He Made a DIY

Vladds

Yes on accents.

Tool wise, I see that the aftermarket gives you I think one gear lash locker with one kit to lock two cams.
But I don't see this with the Mercedes tools.
Did you get this when buying a Mercedes tool?

Which reminds me that it was not easy to buy from the dealer a BMW E36 factory tool.
They kept telling me that they don't sell factory tools to people.

As far as very early M156 don't have the holes, what does this mean ? 2008 C63?

I'll take another look later to see if the WIS gives any info.

My recollection is that on my 2010 I don't have the first part number on the cam adjusters. I think there are 4 and I may have from the factory the second one. So the second update.

As far as the dealer price quoted to me, if no bolt was broken at the time you do the replacement, no machining of the heads is needed. I agreed with the dealer workshop manager that no machining was going to happen in that quotation. The heads come off, some cleaning, inspection and compressed air cleaning, then the new head gaskets go in.

James115

No i bought it from FCP euro, i am waiting to receive it, you are right the dealer will never sell their tools, same was for my Audì, i did need the original tool ( bolt) to remove the original secure bolts of the wheels, they did not provide it
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-timing-tool-set-m156-cta-5080

Jasonoff

Are you talking about if you have to remove the heads completely or just swapping head bolts one at a time?

If the later. You can do one side now and wait a month or 2 to do the other side. It doesn't matter.

deadlyvt

I think he's trying to argue you can't possibly lock just one set of cams you just have 2 locking tools because the booklet says so. As has been stated above you only need one once it's set and everything is buttoned back up they aren't moving then do the other side. And at any time you can check be reinstalling the locking tool on both sides (one at a time) to make sure they are both still on timing. Is it nice to have 2 sets, sure saves you the few seconds of reaching back to grab them and then placing them back on the other side

Jasonoff

You need to lock both sides IF you're doing it all at the same time like the WIS instructions assumes.

Some of the WIS steps illustrated below.

WIS instructions are specific to removing all 4 camshafts. So... yes, you need to lock both sides if that's what you're doing. Both sides can be done separately without issue. You can replace cams on the left side, button it up, drive around then do the right side later.

You only need the locking tools IF and only IF you unbolt a cam adjuster.

Vladds

The timing is via one chain, not one chain per head I don't think.
If the heads don't come off, then if you're doing one set of headbolts at the time, the other head can stay meshed into the timing gear, which is locked into the timing chain.
If you're removing the head and want to do one head at the time, being that there is one timing chain, you're relieving the tension off of the timing chain and I believe it's possible that the other head may skip teeth on the timing chain, with it being loose. The only way to guarantee this doesn't happen, is to also lock the other side. In fact, I wonder if you can even properly re-tension the timing chain, with doing one head removal at the time, both heads may have to come off at the same time, to be able to put the chain back into operation.
The video with Alex, he was removing the heads.

Oh, BTW about the very early 156 being the only ones needing the cam lash tool, here's a 2010 that needed the cam lash tool. Also, the aftermarket tool kit comes with ONE cam lash tool, not two, not even enough to do one side at the time.

James115

[/quote]

Who is this ? the village idiot?

Vladds

Oh, I have no idea who that guy is. The only thing there is that his 2010 needed gear lash lockers.
So mine may need them too.
Here's Alex s video about replacing the bolts with heads off.

w211E63_Sac

Hi there,
I am about to replace the head bolts on my '07 E63 AMG (M156) engine as well. Did you perform yours? I read your parts list and I have the same questions/clarifications.

M156 Updated Headbolt x20 156-016-07-69
Actuator Bolts x4 910105-012018
Timing Case Bolts x8 000000001150
27MM Short Socket for Crank
Mercedes Cam Timing Tool M156
Diamond Washers Cam Phaser x4 (need part number)
Engine Marker - Sharpie
Engine Lubricant - Lubriplate 105
Front cylinder head/timing cover gaskets 2x 1560162221
Valve cover gaskets 1560162421
Spark plug gaskets for valve cover 8x 1560162121
Diamond Washers 4x 1560510275

What type of silicone to use?

Any other specialty Mercedes tools that I'll be needing?

Rovel

You don’t need silicone on m156 heads even if you’re pulling the heads off. Tasos always swears when he finds silicone on m156.

Here is the video I made documenting the whole process