AMG is doing it wrong.
12-08-2015, 05:40 PM
#102
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
The last 10 posters who have some sort of problem or obsession with "real" vs "fake" exhaust tips, have a combined 235 posts in total on this board. Do I need to say anything more.
12-08-2015, 06:03 PM
#104
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Since AMG was purchased by MBZ, things have started going south. AMG used to be a very exclusive limited production car (usually one model type be any given year) that only enthusiast knew about. AMG had a manufacturers license in Germany. Many of the cars had no MBZ badging on them at all. The last real AMG was the 2000 C43. (I had a 1999 C43 and very few people knew what it even was.) After that MBZ started making an AMG version in just about every model line they had. It diluted the brand identity and made it appeal to people just because it cost more, not because of its performance. As noted that downward trend is accelerating with the misleading badges, and "AMG" wheel packages.
12-08-2015, 06:12 PM
#105
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12-08-2015, 06:27 PM
#106
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The fact that the tips are not connected is annoying at most. Unfortunately that is the way the industry is moving. Manufacturers have the impression that style is more important to buyers than function.
As far as the design reasoning is concerned, I doubt "cost of replacing exhaust" factored into it much. To me it seems that they created this design for 3 reasons. Reasons 1&2 are very similar: The fitment to the bumper is extremely close. This means that A) The heat transfer in the metal would not be able to be effectively dissipated by air flow, meaning there is a potential (however small) that the plastic bumper around the "tips" could melt or otherwise disfigure. B) Connected parts would transfer vibration from the engine, with such a close fit this could cause the driver to hear loud and annoying vibration rattle in the car. Reason 3 is because the tips can be interchanged with the models. AMG quad tips work with all AMG cars, (even the 45's which have 4 cylinder engines, making Quad tips hilarious in my opinion.) while all non AMG models seem to have the same Oval Tips.
As I said before, this is simply the way things are moving right now, it may change, but it is more likely that it is something we will need to get used to.
The real problem I have with this design, is the gap between the muffler and the tips. it is about 6 inches of open air from muffler to tip. meaning that there is nothing surrounding the gap to block out light. It looks hideous. When driving/walking/standing behind one of these new vehicles, you can see straight to the street through the tips. It makes all of the models look like someone found some knockoff eBay tips and installed them without caring if it fit. It looks so cheap that I cannot really do it justice with words. I'm sure most people wouldn't be looking for it, but to anyone who likes cars and enjoys checking them out it is obvious.
All of that being said, I feel like I would have an easier time stomaching the new design, if they had bothered to spend some time to hide it better.
As it stands now, it is my biggest complaint with the ascetics of my car. And I feel that is wrong. If someone is paying as much as we pay for a Mercedes (or any luxury car for that matter) we should be proud to look at our cars. The majority of my friends are car enthusiasts, so this is a bigger issue to me than it would be to most.
So thats my two cents, take it or leave it, just offering another perspective on the issue.
P.s. Welcome to the forums Groundtorpedo, I'm sure you'll find that most members are kind, so don't worry. Enjoy!
As far as the design reasoning is concerned, I doubt "cost of replacing exhaust" factored into it much. To me it seems that they created this design for 3 reasons. Reasons 1&2 are very similar: The fitment to the bumper is extremely close. This means that A) The heat transfer in the metal would not be able to be effectively dissipated by air flow, meaning there is a potential (however small) that the plastic bumper around the "tips" could melt or otherwise disfigure. B) Connected parts would transfer vibration from the engine, with such a close fit this could cause the driver to hear loud and annoying vibration rattle in the car. Reason 3 is because the tips can be interchanged with the models. AMG quad tips work with all AMG cars, (even the 45's which have 4 cylinder engines, making Quad tips hilarious in my opinion.) while all non AMG models seem to have the same Oval Tips.
As I said before, this is simply the way things are moving right now, it may change, but it is more likely that it is something we will need to get used to.
The real problem I have with this design, is the gap between the muffler and the tips. it is about 6 inches of open air from muffler to tip. meaning that there is nothing surrounding the gap to block out light. It looks hideous. When driving/walking/standing behind one of these new vehicles, you can see straight to the street through the tips. It makes all of the models look like someone found some knockoff eBay tips and installed them without caring if it fit. It looks so cheap that I cannot really do it justice with words. I'm sure most people wouldn't be looking for it, but to anyone who likes cars and enjoys checking them out it is obvious.
All of that being said, I feel like I would have an easier time stomaching the new design, if they had bothered to spend some time to hide it better.
As it stands now, it is my biggest complaint with the ascetics of my car. And I feel that is wrong. If someone is paying as much as we pay for a Mercedes (or any luxury car for that matter) we should be proud to look at our cars. The majority of my friends are car enthusiasts, so this is a bigger issue to me than it would be to most.
So thats my two cents, take it or leave it, just offering another perspective on the issue.
P.s. Welcome to the forums Groundtorpedo, I'm sure you'll find that most members are kind, so don't worry. Enjoy!
12-08-2015, 06:34 PM
#107
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2014 E63s amg 4matic, 2009 C63, 2006 E55 AMG , 2001.5 AUDI S4 stg 3+ w/meth
Hi Folks,
as an Owner of a 1993 TVR Griffith 430 and a 2009 C63 T-Modell i am of the Opinion that the newest AMG´s are simply Mercedes with an AMG-Badge. They are Fakes, produced for Markets as f.e. China. Equipped with small Turbo-Engines, which are much cheaper to produce. But will not last as far as long as the naturally aspirated AMG 6.2 Engines.
Whereas the TVR is a real Sportscar, the C63 is a Roadrunner par Excellence. It´s simply brutal, extremely fast (mine has measured 520 DIN HP) but still an extremely comfortable and "easy to handle" car. No Exhaust-Fake. No Sound-Fake. Simply a big V8 with endless Power. But still a reliable Car. In comparison of the TCO it´s even cheaper than some much less more powerfull Alfa Romeos. This because of the AMG-Quality.
Unfortunately AMG was bought by Mercedes. And so they will more and more go their future way as a Mercedes "Sportsbrand". Till they totaly loose their own specific Charakter.
But that´s Life. So what.
Happy to own one of the last real AMG-Monster-V8.
Best Regards
GT
as an Owner of a 1993 TVR Griffith 430 and a 2009 C63 T-Modell i am of the Opinion that the newest AMG´s are simply Mercedes with an AMG-Badge. They are Fakes, produced for Markets as f.e. China. Equipped with small Turbo-Engines, which are much cheaper to produce. But will not last as far as long as the naturally aspirated AMG 6.2 Engines.
Whereas the TVR is a real Sportscar, the C63 is a Roadrunner par Excellence. It´s simply brutal, extremely fast (mine has measured 520 DIN HP) but still an extremely comfortable and "easy to handle" car. No Exhaust-Fake. No Sound-Fake. Simply a big V8 with endless Power. But still a reliable Car. In comparison of the TCO it´s even cheaper than some much less more powerfull Alfa Romeos. This because of the AMG-Quality.
Unfortunately AMG was bought by Mercedes. And so they will more and more go their future way as a Mercedes "Sportsbrand". Till they totaly loose their own specific Charakter.
But that´s Life. So what.
Happy to own one of the last real AMG-Monster-V8.
Best Regards
GT
you sound like a typical old grandpa that remembers back to how everything was better back in the good ole days
"dem damn turbo's are crap! give me a giant NA motor !"
Last edited by gaspam; 12-08-2015 at 06:42 PM.
12-08-2015, 07:26 PM
#108
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Next these guys are gunna start knocking the digital "fake" instrument cluster in the current s class and soon to be in the 2017+ E class....
"I'll keep my car that still has a real speedometer!!!"
"I'll keep my car that still has a real speedometer!!!"
12-08-2015, 07:30 PM
#109
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W126 1987 300SDL
I thought that new design was done to stop the direct injection engine exhaust from creating black soot on the exhaust tips that needs to be cleaned off weekly lest it causes pitting and permanent damage if left on.
Last edited by btesar; 12-08-2015 at 07:45 PM. Reason: typo
12-08-2015, 09:34 PM
#113
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
It was the first engine they designed themselves but is neither the most iconic, most powerful or longest built AMG engine (that probably goes to the V12TT M275/M285 engine)
The M156 engine was a great pairing to the C-Class but was pretty anemic and underpowered in AMG's larger (aka heavier) models.
I think at this point, the best representation of AMG as a brand is the AMG GTS with the M178 engine with dry sump and paired with the best tranny AMG has yet offered (Getrag DCT).
Last edited by Wolfman; 12-08-2015 at 09:36 PM.
12-08-2015, 10:55 PM
#114
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'05 S430 4MATIC Sport, 2009 GT Zaskar MTB
The reason why automakers are going forward with ornamental exhaust tips is pretty much to prevent them from getting dirty. I believe a lot of owners complained their tail pipes are getting dirty. This way the gasses are released before the tip and not ending up on the tip and the bumper. I know it is a very bad and cheap design. I saw it long time ago on Chrysler 300. Never thought Mercedes would start doing it.
Honestly I don't even like tips out of the rear bumper. More crevices to clean. My S430 tips are under the car and pointed downward, so you don't even see them. At least I don't have to worry about shooting water inside when washing the car.
Honestly I don't even like tips out of the rear bumper. More crevices to clean. My S430 tips are under the car and pointed downward, so you don't even see them. At least I don't have to worry about shooting water inside when washing the car.
Last edited by legatolimo; 12-08-2015 at 10:59 PM.
12-08-2015, 11:55 PM
#116
It really makes NO difference as to whether the exhaust tips are a part of the fascia or attached to the muffler. Your getting all worked up about NOTHING! They have been doing it for years. It is a very wise cost cutting measure. This way the mufflers can be interchanged without having to make one muffler specific for just one car. Also think about this for a moment. If your car is rear ended or you back into a high curb or low post, you just have to replace the tip and not the entire muffler. WIN, WIN. My car even at 187K has the same exact set up. Smart move on Mercedes part.
12-09-2015, 01:00 AM
#117
MBWorld Fanatic!
There is a certain decorum and mutual respect expected on this board which seems to have alluded you. In answer to your quip...
I was also taken in by the marketing ploy that AMG being owned by MBZ would improve the product rather than diluting it.I own a C63 because my C43 just wore out and my replacement checkC55 got totalled while parked (which was a blessing in disguise since the resale value sucked..dilution of the brand). Realizing that impending CAFE and emissions standards would doom large displacement engines (as it did to the muscle cars), I grabbed a barely used C63 as a stealth 4 door that had the dreaded headbolt issue already remediated.
I was also taken in by the marketing ploy that AMG being owned by MBZ would improve the product rather than diluting it.I own a C63 because my C43 just wore out and my replacement checkC55 got totalled while parked (which was a blessing in disguise since the resale value sucked..dilution of the brand). Realizing that impending CAFE and emissions standards would doom large displacement engines (as it did to the muscle cars), I grabbed a barely used C63 as a stealth 4 door that had the dreaded headbolt issue already remediated.
12-09-2015, 02:20 AM
#118
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'05 S430 4MATIC Sport, 2009 GT Zaskar MTB
12-09-2015, 02:27 AM
#119
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'05 S430 4MATIC Sport, 2009 GT Zaskar MTB
It's always about cost cutting, but are we seeing the cost cutting in the prices of new vehicles? I don't think so. 145K for a new fully loaded S550 is pretty insane. S55 AMG didn't cost that much in 2006. I love German cars, but the way it's going I'll be leasing a Hyundai instead soon. I'm getting over the enjoyment of owning a luxury vehicle.
I'd still preffer to see a real exhaust on a vehicle of this caliber.
I'd still preffer to see a real exhaust on a vehicle of this caliber.
12-09-2015, 05:23 AM
#121
Senior Member
The fact that the tips are not connected is annoying at most. Unfortunately that is the way the industry is moving. Manufacturers have the impression that style is more important to buyers than function.
As far as the design reasoning is concerned, I doubt "cost of replacing exhaust" factored into it much. To me it seems that they created this design for 3 reasons. Reasons 1&2 are very similar: The fitment to the bumper is extremely close. This means that A) The heat transfer in the metal would not be able to be effectively dissipated by air flow, meaning there is a potential (however small) that the plastic bumper around the "tips" could melt or otherwise disfigure. B) Connected parts would transfer vibration from the engine, with such a close fit this could cause the driver to hear loud and annoying vibration rattle in the car. Reason 3 is because the tips can be interchanged with the models. AMG quad tips work with all AMG cars, (even the 45's which have 4 cylinder engines, making Quad tips hilarious in my opinion.) while all non AMG models seem to have the same Oval Tips.
As I said before, this is simply the way things are moving right now, it may change, but it is more likely that it is something we will need to get used to.
The real problem I have with this design, is the gap between the muffler and the tips. it is about 6 inches of open air from muffler to tip. meaning that there is nothing surrounding the gap to block out light. It looks hideous. When driving/walking/standing behind one of these new vehicles, you can see straight to the street through the tips. It makes all of the models look like someone found some knockoff eBay tips and installed them without caring if it fit. It looks so cheap that I cannot really do it justice with words. I'm sure most people wouldn't be looking for it, but to anyone who likes cars and enjoys checking them out it is obvious.
All of that being said, I feel like I would have an easier time stomaching the new design, if they had bothered to spend some time to hide it better.
As it stands now, it is my biggest complaint with the ascetics of my car. And I feel that is wrong. If someone is paying as much as we pay for a Mercedes (or any luxury car for that matter) we should be proud to look at our cars. The majority of my friends are car enthusiasts, so this is a bigger issue to me than it would be to most.
So thats my two cents, take it or leave it, just offering another perspective on the issue.
P.s. Welcome to the forums Groundtorpedo, I'm sure you'll find that most members are kind, so don't worry. Enjoy!
As far as the design reasoning is concerned, I doubt "cost of replacing exhaust" factored into it much. To me it seems that they created this design for 3 reasons. Reasons 1&2 are very similar: The fitment to the bumper is extremely close. This means that A) The heat transfer in the metal would not be able to be effectively dissipated by air flow, meaning there is a potential (however small) that the plastic bumper around the "tips" could melt or otherwise disfigure. B) Connected parts would transfer vibration from the engine, with such a close fit this could cause the driver to hear loud and annoying vibration rattle in the car. Reason 3 is because the tips can be interchanged with the models. AMG quad tips work with all AMG cars, (even the 45's which have 4 cylinder engines, making Quad tips hilarious in my opinion.) while all non AMG models seem to have the same Oval Tips.
As I said before, this is simply the way things are moving right now, it may change, but it is more likely that it is something we will need to get used to.
The real problem I have with this design, is the gap between the muffler and the tips. it is about 6 inches of open air from muffler to tip. meaning that there is nothing surrounding the gap to block out light. It looks hideous. When driving/walking/standing behind one of these new vehicles, you can see straight to the street through the tips. It makes all of the models look like someone found some knockoff eBay tips and installed them without caring if it fit. It looks so cheap that I cannot really do it justice with words. I'm sure most people wouldn't be looking for it, but to anyone who likes cars and enjoys checking them out it is obvious.
All of that being said, I feel like I would have an easier time stomaching the new design, if they had bothered to spend some time to hide it better.
As it stands now, it is my biggest complaint with the ascetics of my car. And I feel that is wrong. If someone is paying as much as we pay for a Mercedes (or any luxury car for that matter) we should be proud to look at our cars. The majority of my friends are car enthusiasts, so this is a bigger issue to me than it would be to most.
So thats my two cents, take it or leave it, just offering another perspective on the issue.
P.s. Welcome to the forums Groundtorpedo, I'm sure you'll find that most members are kind, so don't worry. Enjoy!
It's the gap between the mufflers and tail piece that makes it look so bad.
12-09-2015, 06:22 AM
#122
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C63 507 AMG DA Car #19
Bingo..... the gap kills it for me.
It is no longer connected to the exhaust system.... and thus is a silly facade, or facia, or feaux real tip........ wrong move.
It is no longer connected to the exhaust system.... and thus is a silly facade, or facia, or feaux real tip........ wrong move.
12-09-2015, 11:24 AM
#124
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The reason why automakers are going forward with ornamental exhaust tips is pretty much to prevent them from getting dirty. I believe a lot of owners complained their tail pipes are getting dirty. This way the gasses are released before the tip and not ending up on the tip and the bumper. I know it is a very bad and cheap design. I saw it long time ago on Chrysler 300. Never thought Mercedes would start doing it.
Honestly I don't even like tips out of the rear bumper. More crevices to clean. My S430 tips are under the car and pointed downward, so you don't even see them. At least I don't have to worry about shooting water inside when washing the car.
Honestly I don't even like tips out of the rear bumper. More crevices to clean. My S430 tips are under the car and pointed downward, so you don't even see them. At least I don't have to worry about shooting water inside when washing the car.
Is the inside of the bumper lined with heat reflective tape / etc. to avoid it getting too hot from the under surface? Would there be any concern for bubbling of the paint etc?
In my other cars (catless) I would be concerned about the flames that shoot out the exhaust if the piping and tips were not connected.
I personally don't care if they are connected or not. I think it allows for tighter tolerances without the issues of noise or vibration from the tips moving (with engine movement) and rubbing with the bumper. I agree that they should at least overlap so it gives the illusion of being connected.
12-09-2015, 11:51 AM
#125
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Not a big fan of the disconnected tips either but having had them on our cars for the last 4 years (BMW & MB) it's just a non-issue.
The tips still get dirty but not as much as before. No problem with heat either.
It's just a design question: connected tips must be free floating while the tips are actually screwed to the bumper. This way they can tie the exhaust into the bumper/diffuser design And the diffuser can completely surround the tips...
The tips still get dirty but not as much as before. No problem with heat either.
It's just a design question: connected tips must be free floating while the tips are actually screwed to the bumper. This way they can tie the exhaust into the bumper/diffuser design And the diffuser can completely surround the tips...
