Mc81b

Just so happened to bump into this forum and am quite interested to know the difference especially between the C63 507 Edition and the C63 Black series.

I owned a 2008 MY C63 AMG pre facelift for a few months about 2 years ago and proceeded to get a facelifted 2011 C63 with P30/P31/LSD.
The power output difference can be felt but also the car response tend to be less sharp?
Following up,I just got a C63 Black Series and am curious to see the difference between that and a 507 Edition as on paper wise, the specs are similar,excluding the aerodynamic kit.

Settthhh

P31: 481 HP, 443 TQ

507: 507 HP, 450 TQ

Black Series: 510 HP, 457 TQ

Mc81b

Yes on paper wise they are pretty straight forward,
For the power felt behind the wheel i believe there should be a huge amount of difference between the 507 edition and the black series given the huge price difference and also the aerodynamics?

Settthhh

Oh, misread and thought you were asking for numbers lol. My bad.

INS1GNIA

BS:
$125,000
Adjustable suspension
Aero/body kit
Bigger brake/rotors
Lightweight wheels

Mc81b

So i assume that for the 507 and the black series
The difference are mainly on aerodynamics and handling improvement which nothing the aftermarket companies cant handle in the process of making a 507 edition to a black series?
With the likes of spacers and maybe a upgraded CCB and black series aero kit and some KW suspensions will make the difference?
Sorry to ask that much questions but somehow I am just keen to justify the huge price hike for the Black Series apart from it being limited edition.

abcut973

C63 BS : track oriented coupe. So less weight, improved track width (wider front and back), bigger brakes, aero package & diff cooler (for those with these options), better suspension, better cooling, black series edition = very limited edition.

C63 507: no offense for 507 owners but it is a marketing stunt from MB. Most of the features of that car are similar to the performance package except maybe a better ECU tune, racing stripes, a BS hood, new wheels and few aesthetics changes. It didn't cost them a penny to produce that one.

What part of the world are you?
Funny how you buy a C63 BS and does not know the history behind it as well as the difference with regular C63. I would say you are not an AMG fanatic

OlegKouz

This.

For me it was always either getting a "non loaded" C63 AMG coupe and going after market or stepping up and paying for a Black Series. As mentioned above, where the black series will see an advantage on track days. A 507 or even a P31 just seemed like too much of an investment for little benefit it got, with my tune and KW coils I will pass a 507 easily on the track for much less the price.

Mc81b

Truth be told,i wasn't one in the beginning but the love for AMG grows.
RAPIDLY i should say

Mc81b

abcut, you have PM

abcut973

Hey checking your sig. How did you manage to put 285 tires in the back on 20"? Fender roll or wide arches (doesn't seem to be the case) ?


Replied already

Mc81b

Yeah sadly i do feel that the 507 edition is something more like a TUNED UP version of a P31.
In comparison to the C63 W204, nothing comes as close to the Black Series apart from the official DR520 which are only allocated to UK in 20 units (Matte white and Matte black Sedans + Wagons)(Rumors are that those units are actually Brabus tuned)

rediesel

Black series is obviously the best. Probably the most overlooked aspect of the 507 was the designo interior which was a thing of beauty. Damn I miss that car.

INS1GNIA

Very true, it is beautiful. That and BS hood are the two things I wish mine had!

HBC350

The 507 is just a better version of both cars. Faster, cooler, and better looking. Holds its value better, too. Most of the smarter guys bought 507's before they went all turbo.

Thrilla

The 507 sedan is the closest you can get to a Black series with 4 doors.

beejAMG

funny, in this forum, it seems like youre the only one who owned all 3 cars and yet youre the one asking questions about differences? shouldnt you be telling us that on a "review kind of thread"?

just asking coz some of the members here are just familiar with those cars from what they read or hear unlike you who actually had first hand experience with all 3 cars.

VaclavSV

Guys lets be REAL for all the 507 owners.... they bought a car superior to the black series because it was released 'at a later date' .... yes Ive actually been told that.

Anyways as someone whos owned a P31 Sedan, and Black Series... also have seen many 507s as friends own them here in Ontatio. Ive seen them all on dynos and everything the same/different about them.

Here you go OP, you went get a more honest opinion than this -Trust me!

P30 then P31 Package ... was developed by AMG as a performance upgrade to the regular C63. This included the following;
- Forged internals (probably the hardest thing to see visually)
- Different Tune (the tune on paper was 481hp, however on the dyno after a ECU tune they make IDENTICAL power to a 507... the 507 and P31 cars have the same engine... sorry 507 owners but your car is just a P31 C63 with cosmetic mods, and a different tune ECU tune from the factory. you have nothing physically different about your engine... but according to you Im probably lying.)
-2 Piece rotors for braking performance (same brakes on the 507) I laughed so hard this summer when a 507 owner told me his rotors were composite with carbon pads
- Differential (standard C63 didnt have a Diff Standard, P31 and 507 have the same diff....)
- Carbon fiber accents (The P31 package added CF accents over the standard C63


Black Series
-Forged engine internals but added additional SLS components over the P31/507
- COOLING ... one search on the forum and you will see the huge difference in cooling from a standard C63 or 507. More cooling everywhere you need it
-Body kit, the Black series added a wide body kit that completely changes the look/aggression of the car and allows the car to accommodate larger rubber. 255Front and 285 rear (Rcomps if you get the track pack which added a diff cooler) The wide body and wider tires allows the car to actually grip, again trust me when I say this (Ive owned both) A LOT better than the other C63s. The only downside to this is an Awful turn radius as every other black series will owner will admit
- So I mentioned Diff cooler which the car does that, but in addition to that it has a different differential than what comes on the other C63s
-Suspension the C63 Black Series has coil over suspension by KW but branded as a mercedes part. Ive taken these off to replace with clubsport, V3, and then because neither worked OEM. The Coil is beefier than both options made for the C63. I have a thread somewhere on here which shows how different the Black Series suspension is to standard KW coils.... I cannot comment on how a C63 with V3s or Clubsport would drive compared to a BS cause Ive never tired but the parts are different.
- The whole rear axle of the Black series is different! Its wider, built stronger, and gives the car a completely different rear end feeling. I dont know how you make a C63 feel like this with just suspension and wider rubber.. theres more going on.
- The Black series lacks sound proofing (weight savings? or just annoyance)
- The stock exhaust is louder (nothing a x-pipe or headers cant fix)
-Black series has an interior that imo is more special than the 507...red seatbelts, alcantara, CF black series trim (piece on the dash costs $3K and theres a 77 person wait list, I know this because someone tried to buy mine)
-Rear seats, or lack of rear seats -it was an option in the BS cars
-AMG Performance media, track telemetry (I think SOME 507s come w/ this, Im not 100% sure but they wouldnt get diff temps, etc.)
-CF Accents, Around the whole base of the car and on the trunk... 507 never got that.
-TCU tune... This is definitely different, the trans might have physical differences but I havent taken any apart. The cars shift differently, and the gear is changed on the black series. Also there is no 'automatic shift' in a black series in manual mode. in a P31 or 507 if youre in M the car will shift for you when you get to the limiter. In the BS this DOES NOT happen.
-lack of parking senors/blind spot sensor.... again weight reduction?
-Brakes. The BS comes with larger 2 piece rotors front and rear and calipers off the E63. yes it has better brakes... even better than composite rotors with carbon pads
-Forged aluminum wheels (P31 and 507 come w/ cast wheels)
- Under car protection. JAck the car up and the black series has more skid protection than a jeep wrangler LOL... the other C63s dont have this.
-Lightweight Aluminum trunk... the trunk on the Black series is lighter than a 507 or P31 FACT!


Okay thats about all I can think of... on to the 507

First it needs to be noted as stated before the 507 edition was created by AMG to sell off the W204.

They added the following differences from a P31;

-Stock engine tune (cars ran nearly identical 507 made more torque before ECU flash)
-BS Hood
-Painted black accents (Grille, LED covers, BS hood inserts.... I did this on my P31 before 507 came out... call me a trend setter .. although other members here added the BS hood before 507 was released as well )
-MAtte paint option. Edition 1 P31 C63 coupe was the first C63 offered in MAtte Black, the Edition 1 Sedan was offered in MAtte grey. Then the BS added MAtte white to those colours. 507 got the MAtte paint options but then added decal stripes.... com'on we all know how much HP Stickers add......)
-19" Alloys... Different wheel design... I approve .... still a CAST Wheel
-slightly different interior than a P31... contrast stitching, badges etc. Nothing that the Edition 1 had differently over the P31.

Okay so to recap;

P31 was a performance/slight engineering upgrade on the regular C63. The Black Series was a more significant perfornace/engineering upgrade on the P31, and the 507 was a marketing exercise/software upgrade over the P31.

Overall they are all amazing cars and I love each one

BLKROKT

Not to nitpick, but the Black Series engine is no different from the P31. Same internals, same 'SLS components'.

And all of the cars came with a differential. You probably meant LSD as standard versus an open diff.

Also, in Manual mode none of the models will shift for you even at redline.

Otherwise right on.

tlwood99

So I get the differences between the BS and the other cars, but as to all of the non-BS versions, and speaking strictly regarding performance, isn't it true that all that really separates them is the ECU tune? In other words, as compared to a regular base C63, the other cars have vents, carbon bits, trick internals, maybe slightly better brakes--maybe, but with an ECU tune, all of the non-BS cars will by all realistic measures perform the same?

BLKROKT

Forged internals on the P31/507/BS means lighter and stronger components. Lighter reciprocating mass means these engines spin up faster. Stronger internals means they hold up to abuse better.

VaclavSV

Colder plugs from SLS -different part number (I just changed mine). Also Ive put the BS on the dyno with tuned 507s and P31s and the black seires put down 30-40whp more! I have the graphs here in a thread and a whole dyno day thread was put together. The engines are either different or the BS has less power loss through the drivetrain...... The only 507 Ive seen put down more power was one with ported/polished heads, full headers, airbox, tune, etc. even then he was 10whp more

Yes I meant LSD

Youre wrong because in my P31 it shifts I can take a video to show you this when I meet up w/ the MBTN crew and have access to a 507 and P31. It behaves different.

BLKROKT

You're imagining these things.

My P31 does NOT shift when in Manual under any circumstances. I've banged on the rev limiter enough at the track and on missed shifts to know.

Colder plugs are not an engine component, comeon.

And the tuned P31/507 vs your car, the other cars must not have been tuned correctly or the same tune, because otherwise it's not possible for you to have 40whp more with the same set of mods. NOT possible. SAME engine, SAME drivetrain, NO differences.

I know the BS is really cool, but you don't have to convince everyone by making things up.

Mc81b

To answer your question
I'm collecting my Black Series in 2 weeks time therefore i couldnt justify the huge price difference between that but i would assume the difference could be similar in terms of comparing the M3 to M3 GTS but that would be a whole world of difference as the engine runs from 4.0L V8 to 4.4L V8, which i believe i can't apprehend into the C63 to the Black Series.

On the other hand
I had a C63 MY2008 pre facelifted W204 with minor modifications (cargraphics mid pipes/ x pipes/cats /akrapovic muffler/gruppe M intake/ecu) with only a P30 on it, the amount of power it churns out is somewhere just a little short of a stock P31/P30/LSD AMG facelifted MY2011

I was hoping to be more enlightened into making myself agree to a 70k USD difference in pricing for a 507 used to a black series used in my country of origin.

No offence mate.

Cheers

Mc81b

C63 W204 AMG P30 does auto upshift whenever you hit the red line base on my memory but it does not with the P31 facelifted.
I was pushing my car through a bend where it miss a shift which causes it to almost go into a spin if i werent careful enough with my throttle