cjoy63

It's safe to guess that it came with two left sides from the factory, likely a packaging error. The shop asked what kind of warranty they would honor, and it's only for parts, not labor. It's unfortunate that I've incurred extra labor to diagnose the issue, not including the extra cost for alignments each time. I think the shop should have shared the responsibility because if they originally installed it correctly per the manual and photos, we would have caught in the beginning.

cjoy63

more updates...

I got the replacement end link installed. Upon receipt, we immediately noticed that it differed from the one that came from the kit. However, it matched the photos on the instruction manual so I think it is safe to assume that the silver end link is the older revision and the black one is new. See photos below. Important part is that it is the correct right side end link. You can clearly see the difference in orientation. I also fixed the issue where the end links were installed in the front position of the damper, they are now installed in the rear position.

Unfortunately, the noise is still there! But it has improved. It is not as noticeable and only occurs when nearing max steering lock left or right. I think the source of the noise is really coming from the end links though. I don't know if I'm just thinking this, but the noise is now coming from the left, where the old revision end link is installed.

My next steps are to see if the noise will go away if I can get a hold of the old revision end link for the left side. If that doesn't work, I'm going to try aftermarket adjustable end links. I'm thinking maybe the sway bar is being too constrained.

The only good news, well not related to the issue, is I got my forgestars on!

Thanks for reading. If anyone has thoughts or advice, please share.

Wobble64

The sway bar links I got with my Clubsport suspension just before the holidays are black also.

Mort

I have the same issue with my KW V3s that I installed last June. I was getting a scrapping or grinding noise when turning the wheel and it is the same as in cjoy63's video. Recently I started to take my struts out to replace the OEM tops with K-MAC camber/caster plates. I originally thought it was the strut top bearings worn out by the coilovers. I tested for the noise by turning the steering wheel and I was getting the scraping noise. As soon as I disconnected the right side end link the noise went away. It is the right side link making the noise for some reason it is the one that is binding. I did notice that the sway bar does not float in the bushings attaching it to the sub frame. In fact the bushings seem to be molded to the sway bar and they act like a spring of sorts. This means there will always be pressure on the end links unless they are exactly the correct length for the drop and are equal side to side. I do not have a drive on lift so I could not verify that the end links are equal side to side and not pre-loaded. I am looking into adjustable end links as well so that I can set up the sway bar with zero pre-load at ride height. I also need the noise to go away and this is the only way I think that will happen.

cjoy63

Thanks for the reply, Mort. I too really think it's the endlinks binding and also because of it not being the ideal length. When I looked into adjustable end links like you, only manufacturer I came across is agency power. Thanks for mentioning this because I was also going to replace the strut mounts with adjustable ones to eliminate the possibility of it being the noise too.

Mort

The only end links I have found so far are the Agency Power ones at VividRacing. Staff@RPM used to make end links in 2012-2013 and was a sponsor here. Craig is now Staff@World and I am going to reach out to him to see if he is still making them up.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...end-links.html

Wobble64

Guys, KW is a trusted German high tech company, I cannot believe your issues are something you need to live with and they would not make it right. I have recently installed KW Clubsports and I none of these issues.
Why you and not me? Either you have received incorrect parts or something is different with your install. I'd dig in and try to find the root cause rather than patching it. The sway bar links do not bind and do not make noise on my car.

AMG3.2

While I do agree to some extent, I've had many, many coilover kits from Eibach to H&R to KW and, to my surprise, a lot of them come with weird quirks that you have to debug yourself after install.

Case in point: On my E46 M3, I installed a set of brand new Eibach coilovers. They're were clucking like no tomorrow and no one could figure out why.

Sold the car with them and the new owner immediately replaced them with Broadway Statics as he too could not figure it out.

Mort

@Wobble64 - I will give tech support at the NA distributor a call and see what they say. I will email them too and see if I can reach someone who has a clue.

@cjoy63 - The adjustable Agency Power links are likely too long without modification. The OEM end links are 12" centre to centre and the KW links are 10.25" as close as I can measure them on the car. They are 1.75" (4.4 cm) shorter than the OEM links. There is no way the Agency Power links will have enough adjustment capability to cover that large a range.

cjoy63

@Mort - I'm going to try the Agency Power end links. Talked to them today, unfortunately one of the components are on back order. They're supposed to get back to me tomorrow for timing.

I agree with your measurements. The KW end links are about 10.25", the OEM ones are about 12". Last I spoke with the Agency Power rep, the range of the adjustable end links are 10" to 12". I'll have them double check tomorrow, but I think the range of the adjustable end links will cover the length of the KW all the way to OEM. Just an FYI, the shop that installed my suspension tried fitting the OEM end links with the coilovers and it wouldn't work.

cjoy63

@wobble - I think another cause may be ride height. The lower you go, the length of the mounting point from the strut to the sway bar increases. However, the end links remain the same length. You're probably thinking that I should test if the noise goes away if raise my ride height, but I really don't want to sacrifice my stance. It is awesome where it sits and I want to try and make it work. How low are you in the front?

gzim335

Bump I just got my v3 installed and getting same exact noise
What's the fix for this?sorry if I missed it

cjoy63

Last update: I reported earlier that the noise became better and less noticeable after correcting the wrong end link. I went on a spirited drive last weekend, and the noise was LOUD, worst than the youtube video I posted on the first page. Something about driving it, something changes, with mileage or temperature. But when the suspension is working hard, the noise is just plain loud when I steer.

cjoy63

Theory is that the end links are the source of the noise. However, still haven't confirmed if adjustable end links is the solution. Trying to order part and get it installed. Will post results when they're in.

Wobble64

The reason KW suspensions have shorter sway bar links is because the attachment point on the strut sits lower (which in turn is needed because the coilover spring comes lower than the stock perch).
The correct length for the sway-bar link is independent of ride-height, though. All the height adjustment (adjustable spring perch) happens above the sway-bar link attachment point.


Again, I have no noise on my KW Clubsports at all. Could not be happier.


Could it be something with you reusing the stock top spring perch and dome hat? The Clubsports come preassembled with adjustable camber plates.

cjoy63

@wobble - I have to admit that I am not 100% sure that ride height is independent of end link length. i watched my installer struggle installing the kW endlinks on the car because it was on the short side. He had to pry the sway bar up to close the distance to the strut to make the end link fit. This is while the car is up in the air with tires off, no load, which I think lowers the strut mounting point lower and closer to the sway bar. We can speculate all we want, ultimately will need to try it and provide results when done.

Mort

I contacted KW NA distributors. They sent me a form to fill out and the reason for my request for end links. My request has been approved and new end links are on the way from Europe so they will be 3 or 4 weeks at least. I will update when I get them.

I looked at mine and they look good at the sway bar mounting position but are canted at the strut mount. They also look to be too short. This cause the mounting stud to be at an angle to the spherical head and I think the head does not allow enough angle of variance from square. This causes the stud to bind on the edge of the tie rod end joint causing the rod end to make a noise when the steering is turned.

cjoy63 I am interested to see how you make out with the Agency Power end links.

oggie

Mort: I am of interest to know what is the difference between the ones that are coming in vs what you have now.

cjoy63

@Mort - do you have the black rod style end links from KW or the silver cast ones?

Mort

I have the black end links.

I will not know if there is any difference until I get the end links. From the discussion I had with them it did not sound like they would be any different from the originals. Try the replacements and see how it goes from there.

cjoy63

@Mort - Agency power said that the spacer component for the end link is backordered 1-3 months. I too have black end links. When KW sent me replacements, they provided me with the silver ones. Right now i have the silver one on the right side of the car, and the black one on the left. My silver replacement for the left arrived and will try to swap it out to see if it makes a difference.

Do i need to disconnect the right side end link to replace the left end link? I feel like if i don't the sway bar may be constrained and difficult to install the end links.

Wobble64

Both front tires need to be equally extended. Do not jack up the car on one side and try to disconnect the sway bar. Put it up on both sides and there should be no tension in the links.

oggie

I have the silver end links in my KW V3 set as well.

Mort

I agree with this approach and this is what I do when I work on my car. The problem is the rubber mounting bushings on the sway bar itself seem to be molded onto the bar itself. This makes it a bit like a spring and the bar will not be centered at full droop of the front suspension. There will be a little pressure on the bar. I put the jack under the bar and lifted it until the stud from the tie rod end lined up with the hole in the strut and slide it into place to install the nut on the stud. In theory the sway bar should line up equally on both sides but in the real world that does not seem to be the case for my install. This is part of the reason to use adjustable end links. If you are corner weighting the car you will need adjustable end links and will not be able to do it successfully without them. Every car is a little different so YMMV.

cjoy63

All,

Agency power was able to pull in my order for the adjustable end links. After installing them, the steering noise went away! Here's my summary below:

Symptoms: Creaking noise when steering left or right, youtube video on original post. Sometimes goes away when cold. Becomes louder when warm and with higher trip mileage. No noise when steering wheel is kept straight and going over bumps. Steering also shutters.

Diagnosis: I strongly believe that the aftermarket end links that come with the KW coilover kit is too short, especially when lowered. When the end link is too short, there is a lot of tension between the strut mounting point and sway bar. When there is a lot of tension, there is binding noise coming from the end link. When I was removing the KW end link, I noticed a similar noise when unbolting the joints.

Why I think my diagnosis is correct:

Here is comparison of the 3 endlinks, from longest to shortest: oem, agency power adjustable, to KW.




Here is the KW end link (disregard color difference, long story short, there different revisions). The length to the mounting points is perfect, BUT this is with the car on jack stands. The coilover is not loaded and is in full extension. This is not how it sits when on the road.




When trying to install the agency power adjustable end link with the car on jack stands, it is clearly too long, even at it's shortest end of the adjustable range.




What I did is jack up the suspension to simulate it being on the ground, how it would normally sit when driving on the road. The agency power end link now fits. This was my theory earlier when I said that the mounting point between the strut and the sway bar changes with ride height. Imagine the shorter KW end link in this position. It would be stretching it alot and putting tension on the sway bar. I'm no suspension expert, but I feel like all that pre-tension is not right and is what's causing the steering noise. This might be why one of the mechanics also notice some steering shutter, maybe the power steering was having difficulty with all that pre tension.




Conclusion: I think the agency power adjustable end links is a solution if you are experiencing the same sound as I am. I feel that the steering is lighter and more importantly, I have not heard the sound come back. I've been driving the car for over a week now including a long drive. However, I still need to take a spirtied drive in the backroad to really stress the suspension and see if everything is okay. Below is how it looks like with the wheels on and sitting on the ground. Looks like I can extend it a bit more if i want less pre-tension on the sway bar. Sorry for the rain.

Why some may be experiencing this noise and some not: there is variation car to car. There may be small dimension differences or revisions with the sway bar maybe. The other variable is ride height. I'm sitting on the lower side of the ride height range, approximately 12.75" from center of wheel to edge of top fender. If you're sitting say at 13.25", mounting point between strut and sway bar is shorter and the stock end links would not have as much tension.