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Newbie confused about LSD - see pic

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Old 02-06-2016 | 12:13 AM
  #51  
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From: Eufaula, Al/Georgetown, GA
2009 C63 P30, 2008 Grand Cherokee SRT8(RIP)
Originally Posted by C63amg Tokyo
Interesting read, great info.

For the op, try to lay some more rubber on the street for a longer distance and see if one wheel spins more and has a longer mark?

Mechanical locking differential is the same thing as lsd right? And open differential is a non-lsd model?
No, a mechanically locking differential is just that, it locks the rear axleshafts together mechanically, 100% engagement all the time when locked...a limited slip uses cones or clutches to lessen the slip between the two axles but it CANNOT eliminate all the slip, this is to retain good handling characteristics....

And as for the nannies stepping in to act as a LSD that is just not true....jack up the rear of your car, turn off the ESP, hammer it and let me know exactly when those nannies step in, they won't.....ever........go out onto an iced over lake, turn the ESP off, turn the wheels to the left or right and matte it.... NOTHING will intervene UNTIL you apply moderate braking force, THEN ABS will assist.....

And as for the OPs original question regarding two black stripes......YES an open diff WILL do this under a wide array of circumstances.... The only time that an open diff KNOWS it's an open diff is when one side sees more/less traction than the other....the rest of the time it applies EQUAL power to both wheels as they have EQUAL traction.... So when both tires are on the same surface, with the same traction it WILL leave two stripes, just like a limited slip or a locker with only one exception..... With a LSD or locker the stripes will be equal in distance, but on the open diff set one WILL BE LONGER THAN THE OTHER, as available traction will change due to torque loading one axle and when this happens the open diffs spider gears will progressively send more and more power to the less tractive wheel until ONLY that wheel is spinning, ie leaving a stripe of black rubber in its path....physics does not change no matter nanny

and to be honest the best remedy to get the most out of an open diff is knowing how to use the Ebrake to balance traction to each rear tire, when you can do this correctly an open diff acts just like a limited slip(ask anyone who plays in the mud with an open diff how they keep from getting stuck)
Old 02-06-2016 | 05:22 AM
  #52  
C63amg Tokyo's Avatar
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2012 C63 AMG BS, 2010 C63 AMG (sold), 2006 M3 (sold)
Thx for the explanation, as my cbs data card says 471 mechanical locking differential, I was unsure of this. Quite an interesting thread. Thx everyone for contributing and the op for starting it.
Old 02-06-2016 | 08:11 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by jptaylor
And as for the nannies stepping in to act as a LSD that is just not true....
Stop spreading false information... Maybe give your owners manual a read as well. If you lost yours you can download the PDF for free (https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servi...owners_manuals)

Did you miss this post? -->https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post6699217

It's called ETS which is a module of ESP (aka nannies) that is always enabled according to the owners manual. If that's incorrect, maybe you should let them know about the error.
Old 02-06-2016 | 09:17 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Jasonoff
Stop spreading false information... Maybe give your owners manual a read as well. If you lost yours you can download the PDF for free (https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servi...owners_manuals)

Did you miss this post? -->https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post6699217

It's called ETS which is a module of ESP (aka nannies) that is always enabled according to the owners manual. If that's incorrect, maybe you should let them know about the error.
No, I didn't miss the post......and as I have said on numerous occasions during this post there ARE conditions where the nannies step in even when ESP is off, when the steering wheel is turned past X position and the brake is applied with Y amount of force......stop reading your manual for forum fodder, go jack up the rear of your car, turn off the ESP, press the skinny pedal to the floor and if ANYTHING intervenes while accelerating with the wheels straight I will kiss your ***.....

Just think about what you are saying.... IF what you were interpreting the manual to say were accurate then if you did a REALLY good burnout, as in the kind when you NEVER let off the throttle, as long as the rear tires were spinning the system would continue to apply more and more and more brake until eventually you came to a stop.....

One thing I will concede though is that my car is an LSD p30 car so I can't speak for how the ESP programming in a non-LSD could differ
Old 02-06-2016 | 09:28 AM
  #55  
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There is no such thing as brake-simulated LSD in the sense it's being used here, people are getting really mixed up. It's just stability control. It won't help you put down stripes.
Old 02-06-2016 | 09:50 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by jptaylor
Just think about what you are saying.... IF what you were interpreting the manual to say were accurate then if you did a REALLY good burnout, as in the kind when you NEVER let off the throttle, as long as the rear tires were spinning the system would continue to apply more and more and more brake until eventually you came to a stop.....
The system is intelligent. I would assume it's not going to apply brakes while your front tires are some what stationary and your rears are doing 60mph

Originally Posted by BLKROKT
There is no such thing as brake-simulated LSD in the sense it's being used here, people are getting really mixed up. It's just stability control. It won't help you put down stripes.
That's the whole point of the system. Did you watch the vid explaining how brake actuated lsd works? OP was messing around with race start, I'm willing to guess the system was more active than normal in that situation. If the op tries mashing the throttle around a corner I'd bet he'll see the peg leg stripe for part of most of it.

Stability control is comprised of multiple components. They don't all have to be active at the same time. Like the OM said, ETS is a component of ESP where ESP = "Stability Control" and brake actuated LSD is either all of ETS or a component of ETS.
Old 02-07-2016 | 01:04 AM
  #57  
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The assist that is suppose to make the system act like an LSD doesn't work like it was designed on paper. It's suppose to bridge the gap between full open and an LSD, but in my real world feel on the street it is slow and will never take over from what a real LSD diff can do. Which is why they still put the LSD in the higher end models. If the assist was so good they would not need to do this.
To me the brake assist to counter balance the loose wheel with braking is slowing the car down, and in a track situation it is totally worthless.
Old 02-07-2016 | 08:34 AM
  #58  
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I'd be curious if there's a way to disable it for those with an LSD installed later. And if it's disabled when the car comes with the factory LSD.
Old 02-08-2016 | 08:28 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by 95gsrturbo
So the Differential DOES apply power to both wheels, but not always....

While the LSD ensures equal force to each at all times?
A standard unlocked differential applies exactly equal torque to both wheels.
A standard locked differential applies exactly equal speed to both wheels.
A LSD lies somewhere between the two.

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