C63 P31 vs ATS-V
02-01-2016, 02:07 PM
#26
No. Just no. You're wrong. On, like, everything. I don't even know where to start, but I won't hurt your feelings this time or you'll surely post all my personal info again and threaten to contact my work colleagues.
And if you "destroyed" a supercharged M3 as you say, the other driver must have been asleep.
And if you "destroyed" a supercharged M3 as you say, the other driver must have been asleep.
Performance Specs:
Boost: 8 psi
Horsepower: 640 HP
Torque: 413 Ft Lbs
You sure? Lol, cause one of the m3 drivers came upto me and wanted to race, so we did, in front of about 100 people from a car group
https://i.imgur.com/7GW6ZXh.png
and my buddies stroker GTR
https://i.imgur.com/QKUsjEx.png
Maybe you guys need to WOT your c63's more then once a month....he launched his GTR at 6,000rpm and i was still right beside him, and he's pushing 500+ whp verified ...and you guys are worrying about a ATS-V??????? Wat??
I'm not going to post anything lol so don't worry but i'm just saying, you guys say i trash talk the c63, well you guys are saying it'll be destroyed by a car that's pretty much similar numbers stock
Last edited by avery.whss; 02-01-2016 at 04:04 PM.
02-01-2016, 02:55 PM
#28
Seriously, you people drive a car that's capable of putting down 430-450 whp with a few mods WITHOUT headers, In fact, Euro charged openly stated they have had a C63 put down 480whp without headers, and yet you people are acting like a 460hp TT V6 is going to completely rape it, Lmao. Go smoke another of whatever you guys smoke and send some my way
So tell me, what will a 460 crank hp car put down at the wheels? Let me guess, 500whp in your mind.
Last edited by avery.whss; 02-01-2016 at 06:28 PM.
02-01-2016, 02:58 PM
#29
Super Member
Thread Starter
So consensus is the ATS-V will pull hard even stock. Thats what I figured. Ill find out this spring season if he gets the car.
02-01-2016, 04:56 PM
#31
Super Member
ATS-V will walk you in a straight line. No competition. Look at this video. Both cars tuned, ATS-V with DP... M3 is DCT, ATS is Manual. Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCaVLtjhrpk
02-01-2016, 05:36 PM
#32
You aren't even talking about cars in the same class...
ATS-V - S4 - C63 - M3
CTS-V - S6 - E63 - M5
And, yes folks, the ATS-V is going to be faster in a straight line than the w204. Mod for mod. In fact, I'd even say that your w204 with headers and a tune is going to have a struggle fest with an ATS-V with just a tune, maybe not even.
You can post up videos all day long of watch this guy race this guy blah blah. Fact is, we don't know driver experiences conditions etc. So, when that is left to those who actually do legitimate testing of these vehicles driven by professionals the ats-v stands apart from the w204.
Car and driver has the ats-v going 6mph faster @122mph in the quarter mile than the new c63s. And we all agree (or at least know in our stomachs) the new c63s is more powerful than what we have in our w204s. Even the 507 comes in at 117mph as tested in the quarter.
I see myself switching over at some point. I'll definitely end up back in the turbo game, hopefully sooner than later. It just depends which I fall in love with at the time and the ats-v/cts-v are serious contenders especially in white with the cf packages. I am, however, waiting for the c63s coupe to drop before I make any moves.
ATS-V - S4 - C63 - M3
CTS-V - S6 - E63 - M5
And, yes folks, the ATS-V is going to be faster in a straight line than the w204. Mod for mod. In fact, I'd even say that your w204 with headers and a tune is going to have a struggle fest with an ATS-V with just a tune, maybe not even.
You can post up videos all day long of watch this guy race this guy blah blah. Fact is, we don't know driver experiences conditions etc. So, when that is left to those who actually do legitimate testing of these vehicles driven by professionals the ats-v stands apart from the w204.
Car and driver has the ats-v going 6mph faster @122mph in the quarter mile than the new c63s. And we all agree (or at least know in our stomachs) the new c63s is more powerful than what we have in our w204s. Even the 507 comes in at 117mph as tested in the quarter.
I see myself switching over at some point. I'll definitely end up back in the turbo game, hopefully sooner than later. It just depends which I fall in love with at the time and the ats-v/cts-v are serious contenders especially in white with the cf packages. I am, however, waiting for the c63s coupe to drop before I make any moves.
It doesn't matter how much power you've got if you can't put it to the pavement efficiently and it appears that gm has done a good job of that with the new v cars
The new c63s coupe looks hot. The amg da is getting them in the next month I believe
02-01-2016, 05:40 PM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
And what's not to like about the torque? Sure, if you have a single massive turbo we all know about turbo lag, but on the other hand vehicles with smaller turbos are a riot.
I had a 135i that had a jb4 + downpipes that would give my c63 a run for its money. And no avery, I don't hammer it in 4th gear at low rpms. She's screaming before she's floored.
As for my comparisons, its the industry comparing those cars. Based on price and other factors blah blah blah. You know how it works and you know that's just the way it is. I didn't make the rules.
02-01-2016, 05:46 PM
#34
I'm sorry your personal bias' cloud your judgement towards turbo technology, but you should seriously reconsider. Especially given the fact the future is all moving towards turbo tech.
And what's not to like about the torque? Sure, if you have a single massive turbo we all know about turbo lag, but on the other hand vehicles with smaller turbos are a riot.
I had a 135i that had a jb4 + downpipes that would give my c63 a run for its money. And no avery, I don't hammer it in 4th gear at low rpms. She's screaming before she's floored.
As for my comparisons, its the industry comparing those cars. Based on price and other factors blah blah blah. You know how it works and you know that's just the way it is. I didn't make the rules.
And what's not to like about the torque? Sure, if you have a single massive turbo we all know about turbo lag, but on the other hand vehicles with smaller turbos are a riot.
I had a 135i that had a jb4 + downpipes that would give my c63 a run for its money. And no avery, I don't hammer it in 4th gear at low rpms. She's screaming before she's floored.
As for my comparisons, its the industry comparing those cars. Based on price and other factors blah blah blah. You know how it works and you know that's just the way it is. I didn't make the rules.
So you're saying, in the new tt cars / turbo cars, you WOT it, and boost builds up right away? because on the old 1jz/2jz engines the lag would make you want to poke your eyes out, but if they have mastered it so it feels like NA then it might be worth it.
What about modding though? other then the tune / exhaust work? i know on the 1jz/2jz motor you'd have to pretty much replace the bottom or top end if you wanted to get more power out of it because just increasing turbo PSI doesn't work so modding was very limited before you'd have to upgrade turbos or swap to a single one which is a pretty big job for everything that needs to be "bullet" proofed
Last edited by avery.whss; 02-01-2016 at 05:55 PM.
02-01-2016, 06:05 PM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
Oy, you're talking about supra's? Really?
Here is a 135i with basic mods that are all relatively inexpensive. As in, everything listed can be had for about half the cost of headers for a c63:
There is 475wtq for a good while and when it tapers you have over 400whp at that point moving a tiny little car.
The motor (n54) also comes from factory able to take on 650whp+ and the tranny mods to hold the power, such as clutch packs, also wont break the bank. Not to mention you can get a 135i now that is clean for under $20k easily.
And yes, I'm saying that when you hammer it in a 1 series the boost is already there. If you're rolling there is even a kick down in the car and it'll drop you to the right gear for max boost at that moment.
Trust me though, I know exactly what you mean by turbo lag. My sti, for example, had a gt35r in it and the usable powerband was silly. I was young and just wanted to say "mines bigger than yours."
This is not the case in a 1 series or many modern turbo cars. You may want to go play around in one, seriously. Now, don't go out and hammer a bone stock 135i expecting it to compare to a stock c63, it doesn't. However, the gains on the 1 series are much greater than the gains on a c63 and it really doesn't take much to unleash the power that the car can easily handle.
Here is a 135i with basic mods that are all relatively inexpensive. As in, everything listed can be had for about half the cost of headers for a c63:
There is 475wtq for a good while and when it tapers you have over 400whp at that point moving a tiny little car.
The motor (n54) also comes from factory able to take on 650whp+ and the tranny mods to hold the power, such as clutch packs, also wont break the bank. Not to mention you can get a 135i now that is clean for under $20k easily.
And yes, I'm saying that when you hammer it in a 1 series the boost is already there. If you're rolling there is even a kick down in the car and it'll drop you to the right gear for max boost at that moment.
Trust me though, I know exactly what you mean by turbo lag. My sti, for example, had a gt35r in it and the usable powerband was silly. I was young and just wanted to say "mines bigger than yours."
This is not the case in a 1 series or many modern turbo cars. You may want to go play around in one, seriously. Now, don't go out and hammer a bone stock 135i expecting it to compare to a stock c63, it doesn't. However, the gains on the 1 series are much greater than the gains on a c63 and it really doesn't take much to unleash the power that the car can easily handle.
02-01-2016, 06:11 PM
#36
Modern turbos are much better than they once were, even the c300 loaner car I had was better. Sure there was noticeable lag on comfort mode that drove me nuts but put it in sport plus and it completely changes and kicks in very quickly....and that's a tiny engined c300 so I can only imagine the lack of lag in a w205 which was engineered to reduce lag as much as possible
02-01-2016, 06:16 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Modern turbos are much better than they once were, even the c300 loaner car I had was better. Sure there was noticeable lag on comfort mode that drove me nuts but put it in sport plus and it completely changes and kicks in very quickly....and that's a tiny engined c300 so I can only imagine the lack of lag in a w205 which was engineered to reduce lag as much as possible
Had I known his starting point was 25 years ago I would've approached it differently in the first place haha
02-01-2016, 06:22 PM
#38
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Dude, the new TT in the C63/GTS is RIDICULOUS. There is zero lag. It feels very very close to an NA car. Turbos have really come a long way. Even with a traditional (ie non "hot V") setup, as long as the turbos are appropriately sized or even sequential, manufacturers have a lot of tricks up their sleeve to reduce lag with ECU programming now.
02-01-2016, 06:22 PM
#39
my bad, i should of said that ..but yeah they are 90's engines and it was a joke, that's impressive the kind of power that 135i is putting down, isn't the N54 engine from the 335i? i was actually going to buy a 335i before the c63 but read there were a ton of issues with them electrically, i haven't driven a newer turbo car ever i just assumed they were still struggling with it but ill have to take one out, that was the biggest thing that irked me is the lag and the usable power band, in the 1jz engines you'd pretty much only have power from 3500-6k basically, it was pretty bad lol
Last edited by avery.whss; 02-01-2016 at 06:33 PM.
02-01-2016, 06:31 PM
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
02-01-2016, 06:32 PM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
my bad, i should of said that ..but yeah they are 90's engines and it was a joke, that's impressive the kind of power that 135i is putting down, isn't the N54 engine from the 335i? i was actually going to buy a 335i before the c63 but read there were a ton of issues with them electrically, i haven't driven a newer turbo car ever i just assumed they were still struggling with it but ill have to take one out, that was the biggest thing that irk'd me is the lag and the usable power band, in the 1jz engines you'd pretty much only have power from 3500-6k basically, it was pretty bad lol
The n54 is also in the 335, yes. I just had the little 135 rocket which is where my frame of reference is. My brother has a 335 with the n54 right now, stock, and I'm still impressed every time I'm in that car.
These modern TT cars are nothing to mess around with.
02-01-2016, 06:34 PM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
Still a new-ish platform, but I think part of the issue is we had higher expectations based on the last TT platforms bmw pushed out and the gains we saw from those previous gen motors. On these m3/m4 s55 motors they are pretty tuned from factory, much more so than previous gens.
02-01-2016, 06:43 PM
#43
Super Member
02-01-2016, 06:52 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
I wish the b8 rs4 avant was here. Oh my. I'd even find the money if I had to sell myself for an rs6 but I just don't like the rs7 body.
02-01-2016, 08:27 PM
#45
Super Member
Thread Starter
Yes the S4 is really a 335i/C450 competitor. I had a b8 s4 and only after stage 2 did it become something to be truly messed with. Guys are running 11.4 1/4 now in that car. Puts the power down nicely. I loved the thing and would have kept it if I could have had it in addition to the C63.
02-02-2016, 10:27 AM
#46
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2012 C63 AMG
When you say GTR, folks are not thinking R32 they are thinking R35. There is no way one of our cars keeps up with an R35. I just sold my 2010 R35, so trust me I know. It's not about power, it's about traction - at least for an acceleration race. And let's not even talk about handling. I love my C63 for its' sound, style, interior, etc - but it's not even in the same league as the R35 GTR in terms of performance.
Last edited by mbcomer; 02-02-2016 at 10:51 AM.
02-02-2016, 11:16 AM
#47
Super Member
it's a twin turbo V6 ...not sure how you can say "mod for mod" ...you're comparing NA to forced induction...if you want to do mod for mod, slap a SC on a c63 then compare it to a TT car. You can't compare TT to NA ..TT is already cheating by forcing more air down the beasts throat.
This is merely automotive semantics. Try your own hand at netting those times in either car. You'll see that you can either knock them down easily, or may not be able to reach them without a great deal of effort.
-Believe everything you read?
02-02-2016, 12:16 PM
#48
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2012 CTS-V
The ATS-V is very under rated from the factory.
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...e-87-whp-gains
Here's another one from Fasterproms.
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...eel-horsepower
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...e-87-whp-gains
New Era Performance put their ATS-V on a Dynojet to get a baseline. The stock dyno numbers from the LF4 direct injected 3.6 liter V6 are 431 horsepower and 438 lb-ft of torque at the wheels.
So how about the tuned figures? Horsepower jumps from 431 to the wheels to 518 for a gain of 87 at the wheels. The torque figure increases from 438 lb-ft at the wheels to 527 lb-ft at the wheels for a gain of 89 lb-ft.
Here's another one from Fasterproms.
The Cadillac twin turbo and direct injected 3.6 liter LF4 V6 engine continues to impress. You may remember last month New Era Performance posted their baseline and tune results. Now Fasterproms takes their crack at the car but also added catless downpipes.
The Fasterproms baseline is slightly less at 417 rear wheel horsepower and 405 lb-ft of rear wheel torque. This can be attributed to weather conditions and fuel.
What is important here are the power and torque gains. Tune only the car goes to 518 horsepower and 506 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. That is 101 rear wheel horsepower gained tune only and the torque gain mirrors the power gain.
Add catless downpipes into the mix and horsepower goes to 558 to the wheels and torque jumps to 539 lb-ft at the wheels. A major difference over stock with your basic bolt on modifications.
The Fasterproms baseline is slightly less at 417 rear wheel horsepower and 405 lb-ft of rear wheel torque. This can be attributed to weather conditions and fuel.
What is important here are the power and torque gains. Tune only the car goes to 518 horsepower and 506 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. That is 101 rear wheel horsepower gained tune only and the torque gain mirrors the power gain.
Add catless downpipes into the mix and horsepower goes to 558 to the wheels and torque jumps to 539 lb-ft at the wheels. A major difference over stock with your basic bolt on modifications.
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...eel-horsepower
02-03-2016, 12:15 AM
#49
Super Member
The ATS-V is very under rated from the factory.
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...e-87-whp-gains
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...e-87-whp-gains
Impressive for a DI-FI V6... Though it's not the first in history to break a boundary.
DI and FI (I have long preached) are a deadly combo.
Take the VE from the effective displacement of said V6, or any adequately-paired V8, etcetera... And watch the proverbial plateaus soar.
End of the day it comes down to software, transmission losses, and rubber....
Oh, and the driver....
Not a whole lot different than a well-endowed fellow who either knows how to row a boat, or sinks like Jack Dawson.
02-03-2016, 08:23 AM
#50
The ATS-V is very under rated from the factory.
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...e-87-whp-gains
Here's another one from Fasterproms.
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...eel-horsepower
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...e-87-whp-gains
Here's another one from Fasterproms.
http://www.caddyboost.com/content.ph...eel-horsepower
that is some fairly impressive stock dyno results , very underrated from the factory if these are accurate.
Have you had a chance to drive the new cts and ats v?
