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Bought for 1/4 of that genius. It was worth a shot, and it's probably made fractional power versus ROW. It's a bigger airbox so it must be super-powerful... duuuh you're arguing yourself here guy (different shape after the filter, different neck, made of different material with different cooling properties - these are the variables that realistic people account for). It's called a smart purchase. And I don't remember giving any advice. And unless you've gone faster, then you just look stupid bagging on me.
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point of all that is to show what a hypocrite you are.... you are a contrarian and want new positive developments to be proven wrong and try your best to do so and offer bold assertions such as "eating your shoe even if these show half the power advertised" , but then as soon as some puts a graph up showing such,, you punk out and start trying to make excuses as to how you dont believe the graph
and even at 1/4 of $2000 carbino intake, its still more $$ than the upd spacer/filter combo, but dont see you scoffing at the lack of dyno graphs from carbino ,,, again pot met kettle
Originally Posted by BLKROKT
And unless you've gone faster, then you just look stupid bagging on me.
not hard to go faster than your 11.57 bro.... done it many times..
here's a 9 sec pass in my old junkie 88 mustang gt stoker... I also have 8 sec passes after i added S480 Billet T6 turbo but would have to go find them in garage and take a pic and send to PC, so this 9 sec pass will have to suffice for now... still faster than you o'master of horsepower
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by gaspam
and even at 1/4 of $2000 carbino intake, its still more $$ than the upd spacer/filter combo, but dont see you scoffing at the lack of dyno graphs from carbino ,,, again pot met kettle
I get that math and 'smart stuff' isn't your strong suit, so let me help you out.
ROW = $350
UPD bro spacers garbage = $450
Total = $800
not hard to go faster than your 11.57 bro.... done it many times.. blah blah blah bro bragging blah
I meant in a C63 genius. I've had plenty of other fast cars too. What's next out of your pie hole, 'my dad can beat up your dad'? You don't infer obvious things very well.
Other than the 2 tricks to manipulate the dynojet? Isn't 1 enough? Isn't what you input into the computer or the vast number of things you can do to give false readings enough?
Face it, it can be done. But that's not even the fricken point here even though I just proved a dynojet can be manipulated. The point of this entire thread is how is this spacer going to give a 20+hp advantage across the board.
again, the dyno graphs were from a dynojet... what inputs??? its not a mustang/ superflow/ dyno dynamics that require inputs
and the point of how it could give you more HP is the same concept of the ROW airboxs... less restrictive.... same concept as to how KN's gives you little more power than a paper filter.... same concept as your clean filter gives you more power than dirty one...etc
I meant in a C63 genius. I've had plenty of other fast cars too. What's next out of your pie hole, 'my dad can beat up your dad'? You don't infer obvious things very well.
lol you are clueless... you realize those graphs posted earlier where with row airbox (before and after)... now in the row airbox thread you already reluctantly accepted the results that row gained around 20 whp.... the graphs in this thread are showing 20hp over the row airbox... so row+upd+filters theoretically = 40 hp over stock usa box paper filter
40 hp for 350+450 = $20 per hp
your Carbonio = $2000/4 = $500 + aFe ($150) = $650 total for supposedly 20hp = $32.5 per hp
so you over paid by 62.5% per hp vs getting row box/ upd kit ... i thought you were math expert too horsepower king
hell, even the row/filter combo alone ($500) or the upd spacer/ filter alone ($450) make the same supposed 20hp your $650 carbonio makes.... so you still paid more for the same hp vs the other 2 options in isolation... sounds like you are the one thats having trouble with math
This thread makes me more eager to get out of my c63.
Hellooooooooooo bimmerpost
Lol, don't make that mistake. Unless you love paying the idea of paying 40 hours of labor to do Valve Stem Seals, or the thought of a oil cooler in the valley of the motor that's a nightmare to replace.
lol you are clueless... you realize those graphs posted earlier where with row airbox (before and after)... now in the row airbox thread you already reluctantly accepted the results that row gained around 20 whp.... the graphs in this thread are showing 20hp over the row airbox... so row+upd+filters theoretically = 40 hp over stock usa box paper filter
40 hp for 350+450 = $20 per hp
your Carbonio = $2000/4 = $500 + aFe ($150) = $650 total for supposedly 20hp = $32.5 per hp
so you over paid by 62.5% per hp vs getting row box/ upd kit ... i thought you were math expert too horsepower king
Wait, you used theoretical and supposed numbers in your $/HP calculation, which you then used to establish a very specific over payment %? I don't have a horse in this race but this reads like a teenage kid with a civic who supposedly has a turbo which will technically give him a boner which will specifically help him impregnate Beyonce...
Show me repeatable dyno tests on both setups. Eliminate supposed and theoretical and lets get real. Otherwise this is just and endless pissing match that reminds me of the bros on the civic forums. (no offence meant to the bros on the civic forum).
Wait, you used theoretical and supposed numbers in your $/HP calculation, which you then used to establish a very specific over payment %? I don't have a horse in this race but this reads like a teenage kid with a civic who supposedly has a turbo which will technically give him a boner which will specifically help him impregnate Beyonce...
Show me repeatable dyno tests on both setups. Eliminate supposed and theoretical and lets get real. Otherwise this is just and endless pissing match that reminds me of the bros on the civic forums. (no offence meant to the bros on the civic forum).
i sound like a civic kid and you sound like you cant read... the "supposed" power his carbonio intake was me giving him the benefit of the doubt (i actually dont think his intake makes that much, but im giving him the benefit of the doubt that it makes what it claims to make)
and as for the 3rd box (upd 20whp claim w/ independent dyno), the graphs have been posted in this thread multiple times (thats what people are debating)
so if we give the 2 airboxs, that actually have posted dynos, the benefit of the doubt that we gave mr carbonio and if we take mr used carbonio intake's supposed 20 hp (with no actual proof) for $650, and the row airbox threads actual dyno results of ~20hp for $500, and this upd space/filter thread's dyno of ~ 20hp for $450 then we have a pretty clear idea of who paid the most for the same hp
Yes. Your verbal diarrhea of replies is the cause...
you mean replies correcting all the misinformation you guys are spreading over here ? sounds like you get mad when your are wrong and no one should ever correct your incorrect statements?
arent you the one that thinks dynojets use a weather station that is outside ? seriously bro... i know you like to play on the forum and make little funny comment and post funny comeback pics/ comments, but it doesnt erase the fact that you dont know what you're talking about when it comes to the dyno... i mean you still havent called dynojet to let them know you found a flaw in their software algorithm yet have you?
Originally Posted by Jasonoff
Less than 1% change between uncorrected and corrected for a 2% change in power between ambient temp per run. These are also outside temps from the weather station. Nobody knows what the inside temps were, or intake temps etc...
Originally Posted by gaspam
you do know the weather station of a dynojet is located inside the dyno room right? its measuring the conditions of the dyno room since that is where you are dynoing
some models, like the dynojet 250i , even have it built into the dyno so you cant move its location
i sounds like a civic kid and you sound like you cant read... the "supposed" power his carbonio intake was me giving him the benefit of the doubt (i actually dont think his intake makes that much, but im giving him the benefit of the doubt that it makes what it claims to make)
and as for the 3rd box (upd 20whp claim w/ independent dyno), the graphs have been posted in this thread multiple times (thats what people are debating)
so if we take mr used carbonio intake's supposed 20 hp (with no actual proof) for $650, and the row airbox threads actual dyno results of ~20hp for $500, and this upd space/filter thread's dyno of ~ 20hp for $450 then we have a pretty clear idea of who paid the most for the same hp
But I can read, that much should be obvious since I'm responding. I don't intend to insult you. So hear me out if you will. After all, these are your words which you're choosing to type on the forum to be read, which I am reading.
You chose to use the word "theoretically" to describe a HP stacking result of the ROW+UPD+filter. Based on what I have read from you, you are knowledgeable about cars and power. I won't question that. But you should know that power modifications don't always work like that (stacking). Sometimes they do, sometimes they negate each other. A test wasn't done to show each individual part (ROW, UPD, filters) layering on each other to test how they interact and increase performance. So, I suppose that's why you chose to use the word "theoretically". Words matter...Fair?
So back to the civic forums point. I know we've all seen this type of theoretical stacking logic, without objective evidence, all over car forums (not just civic). This is why I said your point, and the whole conversation, READS the way teenage forum threads tend to go, often found on civic forums.
Tell me you haven't read something like this before..."man, I just installed my b16. Now an OBX header supposedly gains like 20hp. Then, if I add a mad jdm mugen exhaust, they gain like 10hp. Finally, i can add a turboz which we all know adds 100hp. So if I add all that and slap on some stance stickers I'll gain like 300hp. bros, watch out!"
Super exaggerated example, admittedly, but the stacking logic is similar and doesn't make sense here either. You can't cherry pick individual single dyno results, from different cars, on different dynos, on different days, and stack them up to get a theoretical result.
Regarding the "supposed" comment, I wouldn't have used supposed results to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. Show me the repeatable objective evidence or it's just oil that reduces temps by 30 degrees (per an example used earlier).
I'm not trying to be combative, this is just all very crazy and I'm sure you're better than what you've displayed. I'll honestly give you the benefit of that doubt. Cheers!
Last edited by jshimer23; Aug 24, 2016 at 04:20 PM.
I just asked my friend if I can use his dyno to do a full pulls.i will post ALL the conditions on the dyno sheet also and not sure why the dyno operator in this thread has not posted the information yet.i asked him 3 times now.here is a side by side of my home made spacer that was done in 15 min and cost zero to do you just need your old filters to cut the housing out.
as you can see there is an area where the air coming in hits the filter.i don't think these will make power under the curve but maybe something north of 6000 rpms where the engine is pulling in as much air volume as it can get.
you do know the weather station of a dynojet is located inside the dyno room right? its measuring the conditions of the dyno room since that is where you are dynoing
some models, like the dynojet 250i , even have it built into the dyno so you cant move its location
Originally Posted by jshimer23
But I can read, that much should be obvious since I'm responding. I don't intend to insult you. So hear me out if you will. After all, these are your words which you're choosing to type on the forum to be read, which I am reading.
You chose to use the word "theoretically" to describe a HP stacking result of the ROW+UPD+filter. Based on what I have read from you, you are knowledge about cars and power. I won't question that. But you should know that power modifications don't always work like that (stacking). Sometimes they do, sometimes they negate each other. A test wasn't done to show each individual part (ROW, UPD, filters) layering on each other to test how they interact and increase performance. So, I suppose that's why you chose to use the word "theoretically". Words matter...Fair?
So back to the civic forums point. I know we've all seen this type of theoretical stacking logic, without objective evidence, all over car forums (not just civic). This is why I said your point, and the whole conversation, READS the way teenage forum threads tend to go, often found on civic forums.
Tell me you haven't read something like this before..."man, I just installed my b16. Now an OBX header supposedly gains like 20hp. Then, if I add a mad jdm mugen exhaust, they gain like 10hp. Finally, i can add a turboz which we all know adds 100hp. So if I add all that and slap on some stance stickers I'll gain like 300hp. bros, watch out!"
Super exaggerated example, admittedly, but the stacking logic is similar and doesn't make sense here either. You can't cherry pick individual single dyno results, from different cars, on different dynos, on different days, and stack them up to get a theoretical result.
Regarding the "supposed" comment, I wouldn't have used supposed results to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. Show me the repeatable objective evidence or it's just oil that reduces temps by 30 degrees (per an example used earlier).
I'm not trying to be combative, this is just all very crazy and I'm sure you're better than what you've displayed. I'll honestly give you the benefit of that doubt. Cheers!
i appreciate your logical response and i totally get your stacking mods point and example (and yes heard it many times back in the VW/audi forum days)... but i dont think that is the case in this dyno example for the before and after... in the pre upd spacer/ filter combo, the car had the row boxes and that was the baseline (the before).... so the baseline was not stock.. it was with row box, which we have seen can dyno ~20 whp higher than stock box, so we are starting with a higher starting point. now in the "after" dyno with the addition of the upd spacer/filter setup they showed around 20 whp gain.... so what i was trying to point out, that the gain was on top of whatever gain the row boxes were gaining (we dont know what it was on this car because they didnt do a "before rowbox dyno" )...
to put all this to rest, the best would be for stock air box dyno, a row air box dyno, a upd spacer kit dyno and then a upd spacer + row box dyno all on same car
until then, its looks like on this particular customer's car, they gained around 20 whp over their previous row box setup....
Somebody on here said that they would test the spacers. They would do dyno runs with their car as is, and then fit the spacers, and run again. He said that if he gained even half of what they claim he would happily pay for the spacers. If not, he would return them.
Now, if I was the manufacturer of these spacers, this would be an opportunity to prove that your product works.
I am in the camp that cannot see how a simple spacer can net those sort of gains.
i appreciate your logical response and i totally get your stacking mods point and example (and yes heard it many times back in the VW/audi forum days)... but i dont think that is the case in this dyno example for the before and after... in the pre upd spacer/ filter combo, the car had the row boxes and that was the baseline (the before).... so the baseline was not stock.. it was with row box, which we have seen can dyno ~20 whp higher than stock box, so we are starting with a higher starting point. now in the "after" dyno with the addition of the upd spacer/filter setup they showed around 20 whp gain.... so what i was trying to point out, that the gain was on top of whatever gain the row boxes were gaining (we dont know what it was on this car because they didnt do a "before rowbox dyno" )...
to put all this to rest, the best would be for stock air box dyno, a row air box dyno, a upd spacer kit dyno and then a upd spacer + row box dyno all on same car
until then, its looks like on this particular customer's car, they gained around 20 whp over their previous row box setup....
I was honestly just commenting about your stacking example. Your original point I certainly get.
Generally speaking performance parts don't work in complete isolation, they interact and you tend to get a cumulative affect (positive, negative, or neutral). Given that we have an n of 1, we could also conclude that that the spacer allowed the ROW box to work better and with a standard US box, with charcoals, the spacer does nothing. That's not my conclusion but there is no evidence, yet, that disproves it. It's no reason to make this thread a complete disaster though.
I agree with you 100%, until a scientific(like) test is performed, we've got 1 example based on what was done with that car that day. Based on someone else's setup they may net nothing. Until the part in question is isolated, and tested, we're all just pissing in the wind. I think, we're saying the same thing.
Me, I'm a natural skeptic until I see sound evidence. I may not be as cynical as some others in this thread but I see where they are coming from as well. I personally hope we see some well thought out tests to settle this one.
I'll slide out of the rest of this one and wait for Skratch's results as an analog for the spacers. Back to lurking for me.
Lol, don't make that mistake. Unless you love paying the idea of paying 40 hours of labor to do Valve Stem Seals, or the thought of a oil cooler in the valley of the motor that's a nightmare to replace.
Na, I'm saying this subsection is becoming bimmerpost and I'm looking at moving into another MB.
i know it's not my place to chime in but honestly i can't see any benefit to these over ROW boxes ...seriously, what the hell are a few extra inches going to do?
yeah they look cool, but i highly doubt you pulled 30whp from these or whatever the number is ...it was probably a cool day when you ran the dyno so your car put down 30 more hp compared to a 30C+ day
i haven't bothered to look at all the sheets i don't care ..just wanted to say that these are probably useless - and i've bought every air kit in the book for AMG's ...ROW boxes do the best with some dry filters
i know it's not my place to chime in but honestly i can't see any benefit to these over ROW boxes ...seriously, what the hell are a few extra inches going to do?
yeah they look cool, but i highly doubt you pulled 30whp from these or whatever the number is ...it was probably a cool day when you ran the dyno so your car put down 30 more hp compared to a 30C+ day
i haven't bothered to look at all the sheets i don't care ..just wanted to say that these are probably useless - and i've bought every air kit in the book for AMG's ...ROW boxes do the best with some dry filters
You are a little late to the dance. The dyno operator has already responded in this thread that they were back to back dyno pulls within 30 minutes of each other and that both runs were corrected.
I'm still skeptical, but would like some verification. Maybe MB really did screw up the filter box design.
You are a little late to the dance. The dyno operator has already responded in this thread that they were back to back dyno pulls within 30 minutes of each other and that both runs were corrected.
I'm still skeptical, but would like some verification. Maybe MB really did screw up the filter box design.
dyno pulls don't mean jack though - if you want numbers ..hit the 1/4 mile.
a c63 that was just started up and put on the dyno while the engine is still <75C is going to put more power down then a c63 pushing 110C .."correction" or not ...computers can only account for so many variables in the real world
i mean a human being will sprint their fastest in the first <10 sprints but once your brain starts to feel the heat - GG
Last edited by worldofcars; Aug 24, 2016 at 06:47 PM.
dyno pulls don't mean jack though - if you want numbers ..hit the 1/4 mile.
Dyno's are great tools for showing changes in HP. But yes, many people that pop in and out here are victims of thinking 450whp on a dyno in Denver is the same as 450whp on a dyno in NYC.
Somebody on here said that they would test the spacers. They would do dyno runs with their car as is, and then fit the spacers, and run again. He said that if he gained even half of what they claim he would happily pay for the spacers. If not, he would return them.
Now, if I was the manufacturer of these spacers, this would be an opportunity to prove that your product works.
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seriously bro... i know you like to play on the forum and make little funny comment and post funny comeback pics/ comments, but it doesnt erase the fact that you dont know what you're talking about when it comes to the dyno... i mean you still havent called dynojet to let them know you found a flaw in their software algorithm yet have you?
and i totally get your stacking mods point and example (and yes heard it many times back in the VW/audi forum days)... but i dont think that is the case in this dyno example for the before and after... in the pre upd spacer/ filter combo, the car had the row boxes and that was the baseline (the before).... so the baseline was not stock.. it was with row box, which we have seen can dyno ~20 whp higher than stock box, so we are starting with a higher starting point. now in the "after" dyno with the addition of the upd spacer/filter setup they showed around 20 whp gain.... so what i was trying to point out, that the gain was on top of whatever gain the row boxes were gaining (we dont know what it was on this car because they didnt do a "before rowbox dyno" )...
