UOA: Mobil 1 0W-40 + Liqui Moly MoS 2
07-17-2016, 10:24 PM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
So, gotta ask to make sure I get this right.....
Tell me where I am wrong....
The first time out I would use Ceratec, added with an oil change.
We would need 2x 300 ml bottles due to our capacity, and therefore
we would add oil just approx a half quart shy.
Its warranty friendly so if oil is changed as part of a dealer service I could just speak to
the tech and have them drop it in, most likely.
At the next change after that, I would put in one bottle of MOS2 (otherwise known as Liqui Moly 2009).
Every few changes, you may want to Ceratec again, but prolly just one bottle would suffice.
Is that right?
Tell me where I am wrong....
The first time out I would use Ceratec, added with an oil change.
We would need 2x 300 ml bottles due to our capacity, and therefore
we would add oil just approx a half quart shy.
Its warranty friendly so if oil is changed as part of a dealer service I could just speak to
the tech and have them drop it in, most likely.
At the next change after that, I would put in one bottle of MOS2 (otherwise known as Liqui Moly 2009).
Every few changes, you may want to Ceratec again, but prolly just one bottle would suffice.
Is that right?
07-18-2016, 01:39 AM
#27
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Supposedly CeraTec first (only once), then Mos2 after. Something about Mos2 makes CeraTec less effective if used first.
07-18-2016, 02:33 PM
#28
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2007 Mercedes E63 AMG
Yeah, one more change and I'm done with M1. Using Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40 my consumption was 1/2 quart per 4k miles over 5 Motul oil changes, so WAY lower. I still have 20 qts of Motul in the garage. On M1, I find that consumption increases as a direct function of throttle input.
That is the hot ticket it seems - the first Ceratec dose and then MoS 2 thereafter. I'm a believer in both of these additives.
That is the hot ticket it seems - the first Ceratec dose and then MoS 2 thereafter. I'm a believer in both of these additives.
Motul 6100 5-40w with LiquiMoly MoS2...liquid gold...runs like a top. I tried Mobil 1 0-40w with LiquiMoly MoS2 and after about a week all power gains from the fresh oil change were lost...I also leaked more oil out of the lower oil pan gasket than I ever did with Motul...also was the only time in 2 years of ownership that I ever saw low oil on my dash. Never running Mobil 1 ever again. Motul I have longer oil change intervals and power is never lost from fresh oil change to the day its is drained.
Here is some info from an email I sent to LiquiMoly... also in regards to Cera Tec, I felt as though I read somewhere that is it good practice to cycle on (add) every 30,000 miles.
Hi Barry,
it is not necessary that you clean/flush your engine before you use the Cera Tec and the Hydraulic Lifter Additive.
You can just drain the old oil with the MoS2 and add the two additives with the new oil.
Best regards
i. A. Roman Göser
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Phone: +49 731 1420-644
Fax: +49 731 1420-82
Roman.Goeser@liqui-moly.de
LIQUI MOLY GmbH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4 | 89081 Ulm | GERMANY
www.liqui-moly.de
Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost
LIQUI MOLY ist Deutschlands beliebteste Motorenöl-Marke!
LIQUI MOLY is Germany´s most popular motor oil brand!
Von: B URRY
An: Roman Göser
Datum: 13.07.2016 19:15
Betreff: Re: WG: LiquiMoly MoS2, LiquiMoly Cera Tec, and LiquiMoly Hydraulic Lifter Additive
Hi Roman,
Currently I have MoS2 in my engine. Do I need to cycle off of this for a few oil changes or use a flush to clean the engine before using Cera Tec and Hydraulic Lifter Additive? Or can I just simply drain MoS2 and upon the next refill use Cera Tec and Hydraulic Lifter Additive?
Thank you,
Barry
Hello Barry,
since David is not in the office, I assuame your questions.
You can use our Liqui Moly Cera Tec and our Liqui Moly Hydraulic Lifter Additive at the same time with out any problems.
When you change next time your oil use one and a half can from the Cera Tec and one and a half from the Hydraulic Lifter Additive.
The remainig additives can be used again for a subsequent oil change.
Should you have any further questions, please contact us.
Best regards
i. A. Roman Göser
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Phone: +49 731 1420-644
Fax: +49 731 1420-82
Roman.Goeser@liqui-moly.de
LIQUI MOLY GmbH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4 | 89081 Ulm | GERMANY
www.liqui-moly.de
Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost
LIQUI MOLY ist Deutschlands beliebteste Motorenöl-Marke!
LIQUI MOLY is Germany´s most popular motor oil brand!
Von: David Kaiser/Liqui Moly/DE
An: Roman Göser/Liqui Moly/DE@LM
Kopie: David Kaiser/Liqui Moly/DE@LM
Datum: 13.07.2016 09:16
Betreff: WG: LiquiMoly MoS2, LiquiMoly Cera Tec, and LiquiMoly Hydraulic Lifter Additive
Gesendet von: Gisela Sicar
Hi Roman,
kannst du bitte dem Kunden ein Feedback geben. David ist auf Geschäftsreise.
Vielen Dank und gruß,
Gisela
----- Weitergeleitet von Gisela Sicar/Liqui Moly/DE am 13.07.2016 09:15 -----
Von: B URRY
An: david.kaiser@liqui-moly.de, tim.hoke@liquimoly.us
Datum: 12.07.2016 22:45
Betreff: LiquiMoly MoS2, LiquiMoly Cera Tec, and LiquiMoly Hydraulic Lifter Additive
Hello David,
I had a few questions in regards to proper product usage. At the moment I have been using LiquiMoly MoS2 with Motul 8100 5-40w for the past 36,000+ miles. Since then I have gained further interest to also use your Cera Tec and Hydraulic Lifter Additive within my engine. Could you please walk me through the proper process to appropriately cycle through these products. I currently have MoS2 and Motul in my engine currently. I have in the past 36k miles heard lifter noise twice. The M156 Mercedes engine is notorious for having lifter failure issues, and I'd like to prolong or prevent any lifter damage in the future. Thank you.
Vehicle Info
2007 Mercedes E63 AMG (W211 with M156 Engine)
118,000 miles
Thank you,
Barry
it is not necessary that you clean/flush your engine before you use the Cera Tec and the Hydraulic Lifter Additive.
You can just drain the old oil with the MoS2 and add the two additives with the new oil.
Best regards
i. A. Roman Göser
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Phone: +49 731 1420-644
Fax: +49 731 1420-82
Roman.Goeser@liqui-moly.de
LIQUI MOLY GmbH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4 | 89081 Ulm | GERMANY
www.liqui-moly.de
Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost
LIQUI MOLY ist Deutschlands beliebteste Motorenöl-Marke!
LIQUI MOLY is Germany´s most popular motor oil brand!
Von: B URRY
An: Roman Göser
Datum: 13.07.2016 19:15
Betreff: Re: WG: LiquiMoly MoS2, LiquiMoly Cera Tec, and LiquiMoly Hydraulic Lifter Additive
Hi Roman,
Currently I have MoS2 in my engine. Do I need to cycle off of this for a few oil changes or use a flush to clean the engine before using Cera Tec and Hydraulic Lifter Additive? Or can I just simply drain MoS2 and upon the next refill use Cera Tec and Hydraulic Lifter Additive?
Thank you,
Barry
Hello Barry,
since David is not in the office, I assuame your questions.
You can use our Liqui Moly Cera Tec and our Liqui Moly Hydraulic Lifter Additive at the same time with out any problems.
When you change next time your oil use one and a half can from the Cera Tec and one and a half from the Hydraulic Lifter Additive.
The remainig additives can be used again for a subsequent oil change.
Should you have any further questions, please contact us.
Best regards
i. A. Roman Göser
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer
F & E / Anwendungstechnik
Phone: +49 731 1420-644
Fax: +49 731 1420-82
Roman.Goeser@liqui-moly.de
LIQUI MOLY GmbH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4 | 89081 Ulm | GERMANY
www.liqui-moly.de
Amtsgericht Ulm HRB 1383 | Geschäftsführer: Ernst Prost
Court of registration Ulm, HRB 1383 | Managing Director: Ernst Prost
LIQUI MOLY ist Deutschlands beliebteste Motorenöl-Marke!
LIQUI MOLY is Germany´s most popular motor oil brand!
Von: David Kaiser/Liqui Moly/DE
An: Roman Göser/Liqui Moly/DE@LM
Kopie: David Kaiser/Liqui Moly/DE@LM
Datum: 13.07.2016 09:16
Betreff: WG: LiquiMoly MoS2, LiquiMoly Cera Tec, and LiquiMoly Hydraulic Lifter Additive
Gesendet von: Gisela Sicar
Hi Roman,
kannst du bitte dem Kunden ein Feedback geben. David ist auf Geschäftsreise.
Vielen Dank und gruß,
Gisela
----- Weitergeleitet von Gisela Sicar/Liqui Moly/DE am 13.07.2016 09:15 -----
Von: B URRY
An: david.kaiser@liqui-moly.de, tim.hoke@liquimoly.us
Datum: 12.07.2016 22:45
Betreff: LiquiMoly MoS2, LiquiMoly Cera Tec, and LiquiMoly Hydraulic Lifter Additive
Hello David,
I had a few questions in regards to proper product usage. At the moment I have been using LiquiMoly MoS2 with Motul 8100 5-40w for the past 36,000+ miles. Since then I have gained further interest to also use your Cera Tec and Hydraulic Lifter Additive within my engine. Could you please walk me through the proper process to appropriately cycle through these products. I currently have MoS2 and Motul in my engine currently. I have in the past 36k miles heard lifter noise twice. The M156 Mercedes engine is notorious for having lifter failure issues, and I'd like to prolong or prevent any lifter damage in the future. Thank you.
Vehicle Info
2007 Mercedes E63 AMG (W211 with M156 Engine)
118,000 miles
Thank you,
Barry
Last edited by hachiroku; 07-18-2016 at 02:36 PM.
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07-18-2016, 02:44 PM
#29
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07-20-2016, 02:28 PM
#30
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Hachiroku et al,
As mentioned many times in the past, Mobil 1 0W-40 is a lot thinner when cold than the rest of oils mentioned in the thread, and moreover has a very good detergent additive package. Due to the very low viscosity at startup, you're likely to burn four times as much M1 0W-40 as you are any 5W-40 oil. Regarding the oil leak from your engine - oil leaks are NOT caused by the oil. If you have a leak, you have a defect with the engine; the only reason why you are seeing leaks with the M1 and not the other oil(s) is beacause the M1 has (a) much smaller molecules that are able to get in places - or in your case, through places like worn or broken seals or gaskets - where other oils can't, and (b) the M1 has cleaned up whatever amounts of gunk and deposits were on those seals previously clogging up the leaky areas.
Liqui Moly's entire product line is MoS2-based lubricants since they came up with the production process in the late 1950's. MoS2 is a great dry lubricant - Moly powders and pastes (greases) are used pretty much everywhere where the application calls for it - but there is no evidence one way or the other that it does anything in engine oil as the solid Moly particles are essentially suspended by the oil. Unlike other additives (like all PTFE based garbage for example), MoS2 is not likely to damage anything in the engine with the priovisio that it ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT BE USED IN ANYTHING THAT CONTAINS A CLUTCH or other components that require a certain level of friction for their operation as the MoS2 particles will adhere to the clutch plates under high pressure and make them slip (for the record, MCT cars are fine - the wet clutch is immersed in the transmission oil, not the motor oil). Furthermore, there are more modern alternatives to MoS2, so the argument about it being a superior lubricant is nowadays pretty much null and void as there are now other compounds that provide very similar lubrication characteristics. While Liqui Moly is an OK oil, it is not anythign exceptional.
I am not familar with the Cera Tec additive so I can't comment on the same. As a general rule of thumb though - modern motor oils are now light years ahead of where they were some 20 years ago. A properly designed motor oil - ANY of the ones that have the required manufacturer approval (whether we're talking about MB 229.5, Porsche A40 or VAG 502.00) - already has the chemistry and all the additives that your engine needs, so there is absolutely no need for any aftermerket oil additives at all. If for any reason you're partial to MoS2 or Liqui Moly, if I were in your shoes I'd just use Liqui Moly Leichtlauf 5W-40 oil instead of adding things to the engine oil that are not only not approved by the manufacturer but have to potential to block the filter or otherwise impede oil flow and thus damage things either as a result of inadequate flow (lubrication) or cooling of some engine component.
As mentioned many times in the past, Mobil 1 0W-40 is a lot thinner when cold than the rest of oils mentioned in the thread, and moreover has a very good detergent additive package. Due to the very low viscosity at startup, you're likely to burn four times as much M1 0W-40 as you are any 5W-40 oil. Regarding the oil leak from your engine - oil leaks are NOT caused by the oil. If you have a leak, you have a defect with the engine; the only reason why you are seeing leaks with the M1 and not the other oil(s) is beacause the M1 has (a) much smaller molecules that are able to get in places - or in your case, through places like worn or broken seals or gaskets - where other oils can't, and (b) the M1 has cleaned up whatever amounts of gunk and deposits were on those seals previously clogging up the leaky areas.
Liqui Moly's entire product line is MoS2-based lubricants since they came up with the production process in the late 1950's. MoS2 is a great dry lubricant - Moly powders and pastes (greases) are used pretty much everywhere where the application calls for it - but there is no evidence one way or the other that it does anything in engine oil as the solid Moly particles are essentially suspended by the oil. Unlike other additives (like all PTFE based garbage for example), MoS2 is not likely to damage anything in the engine with the priovisio that it ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT BE USED IN ANYTHING THAT CONTAINS A CLUTCH or other components that require a certain level of friction for their operation as the MoS2 particles will adhere to the clutch plates under high pressure and make them slip (for the record, MCT cars are fine - the wet clutch is immersed in the transmission oil, not the motor oil). Furthermore, there are more modern alternatives to MoS2, so the argument about it being a superior lubricant is nowadays pretty much null and void as there are now other compounds that provide very similar lubrication characteristics. While Liqui Moly is an OK oil, it is not anythign exceptional.
I am not familar with the Cera Tec additive so I can't comment on the same. As a general rule of thumb though - modern motor oils are now light years ahead of where they were some 20 years ago. A properly designed motor oil - ANY of the ones that have the required manufacturer approval (whether we're talking about MB 229.5, Porsche A40 or VAG 502.00) - already has the chemistry and all the additives that your engine needs, so there is absolutely no need for any aftermerket oil additives at all. If for any reason you're partial to MoS2 or Liqui Moly, if I were in your shoes I'd just use Liqui Moly Leichtlauf 5W-40 oil instead of adding things to the engine oil that are not only not approved by the manufacturer but have to potential to block the filter or otherwise impede oil flow and thus damage things either as a result of inadequate flow (lubrication) or cooling of some engine component.
07-20-2016, 04:36 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
*This message approved by professional tribologists and lubrication engineers worldwide.*
http://bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
Molybdenum Disulfide
Molybdenum is a very hard metal with a number of industrial uses. It is combined with chromium in steel to make the steel harder and more resistant to bending. Most of the bicycle frames produced today use chromium and molybdenum steel. Because the steel is so much harder, the manufacturers can use less, thereby making the frame lighter. Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts.
Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.
The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts. This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance. This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.
Eventually, there is metal to metal contact, which damages these moving parts and creates large amounts of heat. Fortunately, this is not the case with some lubricants.The layer of moly that forms on these moving surfaces can withstand pressures of 500,000 psi, without being squeezed out. Engineers and scientists have tried for years to use Moly in motor oils but they had been unsuccessful because they could not find a way to keep Moly in suspension. Once Moly was put into suspension it would gradually settle out. It was easy to see it come out of suspension because a black sludge would collect on the bottom of the oil containers. In engines it would settle to the bottom of the crankcase or clog oil pathways and filters.
Engineers have overcome these obstacles. They have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn’t filtered out. Since that time theproduct has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today’s engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
http://bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
Molybdenum Disulfide
Molybdenum is a very hard metal with a number of industrial uses. It is combined with chromium in steel to make the steel harder and more resistant to bending. Most of the bicycle frames produced today use chromium and molybdenum steel. Because the steel is so much harder, the manufacturers can use less, thereby making the frame lighter. Molybdenum Disulfide (Moly) has been used for decades in lubricating pastes and greases because it is slippery and forms a protective coating on metal parts.
Moly exists as microscopic hexagonal crystal platelets Several molecules make up one of these platelets. A single molecule of Moly contains two sulfur atoms and one molybdenum atom. Moly platelets are attracted to metal surfaces. This attraction and the force of moving engine parts rubbing across one another provide the necessary thermochemical reaction necessary for Moly to form an overlapping protective coating like armor on all of your engine parts. This protective armor coating has a number of properties that are very beneficial for your engine.
The Moly platelets that make up the protective layers on your engine surfaces slide across one another very easily. Instead of metal rubbing against metal, you have Moly platelets moving across one another protecting and lubricating the metal engine parts. This coating effectively fills in the microscopic pores that cover the surface of all engine parts, making them smoother. This feature is important in providing an effective seal on the combustion chamber. By filling in the craters and pores Moly improves this seal allowing for more efficient combustion and engine performance. This overlapping coating of Moly also gives protection against loading (perpendicular) forces. These forces occur on the bearings, and lifters. The high pressures that occur between these moving parts tend to squeeze normal lubricants out.
Eventually, there is metal to metal contact, which damages these moving parts and creates large amounts of heat. Fortunately, this is not the case with some lubricants.The layer of moly that forms on these moving surfaces can withstand pressures of 500,000 psi, without being squeezed out. Engineers and scientists have tried for years to use Moly in motor oils but they had been unsuccessful because they could not find a way to keep Moly in suspension. Once Moly was put into suspension it would gradually settle out. It was easy to see it come out of suspension because a black sludge would collect on the bottom of the oil containers. In engines it would settle to the bottom of the crankcase or clog oil pathways and filters.
Engineers have overcome these obstacles. They have developed a process that keeps Moly in suspension and isn’t filtered out. Since that time theproduct has undergone extensive independent testing in labs and in the field for many years to insure that the product stands up to the rigorous needs of today’s engines. With the plating action of Moly reducing friction which reduces heat, this helps keep rings free from carbon buildup, prevents blow-by, decreases emission, and extends oil life.
Last edited by bhamg; 07-20-2016 at 08:29 PM.
07-20-2016, 04:42 PM
#33
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
For "research" find the master threads on MOS 2 here, where the pros weigh in on the whether it's the real deal:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...rty_Oil_Additi
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...rty_Oil_Additi
