w204nyc

thats without headers correct?

CaptnCharisma

Correctamundo! Secondary cat delete, Row Airboxes with AFE filters, Agency Power Underdrive Crank Pulley, 180F thermostat(that does nothing), V6 tune, and running a full tank of E85 from G&M. Greatly exceeded my expectations.

Mag1c Carp3t

Hows that under drive pulley working out for you?

CaptnCharisma

Just fine. Not a single issue with it. Probably have about 30k miles on it. The only numbers I have supporting it though come off my butt dyno.

Savage-wp

That's good power considering you don't have headers.
Do you know what your power was before you fitted the flex fuel kit.

CaptnCharisma

Probably around 400. I never did a dyno not on E85. Before my car an E63 went ahead of me and it was putting numbers up around there.

skratch77

I wish there were e85 stations near me .there is only like 3 in my state that came up searching.there are a couple in Boston but I'm not going to drive an hour to get gas.

Celicasaur

The better breathing (flow) of exhaust gas (from fitting headers) enables the exhaust gas to expel the cylinders quicker and prepare them for a fuller charge on the next cycle. This proportion of this gain is usually more at higher rpm because the engine needs it more at higher rpm (the engine literally can't get rid of the exhaust gas fast enough at high rpm because of how quickly it's turning, hence ported cylinder heads help a lot in this respect, at least on the exhaust side). Now although the peak torque figure might not change dramatically after headers + tune etc (usually around 20/30wtq or so in most cases on this motor? ), the torque figure is still higher at higher rpm but to understand it better, you'll need to see an overlaid before/after dyno plot. Different exhaust combo's can affect how much the gain in top end vs mid-range appears. ie, decatted cars might still see something like 460whp, but only 395wtq peak whereas longtube cars might see something like 480whp and then 430whp.

Before anybody jumps on my back, this is an illustrative example ^ and I have simplified it.


This might help:

1) You can't really compare the stock figure that MB provide and then apply it to a shop dyno....you've got to do a baseline at whatever shop you choose and then use that to gauge your improvements after mods
2) Based on this ^ you shouldn't really be seeing a drop in torque. If anything, it will climb higher. I know there's the whole back-pressure misunderstanding on the interweb, and in some cases yeah you might lose a bit of low-down power, but it's not back-pressure that you want...it's flow-velocity, which you may lose from having too big an exhaust bore, but through increased scavenging that ken@magnusson mentioned, you can recoup that low end power and still improve the top end breathing for more peak power


I just deleted a couple of other points because I was starting to go off at a tangent. I think the points made above should help. If not...keep reading/researching...you'll get there eventually

Celicasaur

I'd like to do this myself also, but if I try to buy E85 out of a drum, it's only sold as race-bred E85 and hella expensive. Not really sure how the rest of us without E85 stations can make this mod happen

CaptnCharisma

I've been kinda lucky out here in Socal. Theres a G&M station just a block away and they advertise their pump E85 as race gas, 85% Ethanol and put a silly race car stick on the pump. I'd say my numbers would support what they are saying. I am kinda curious though if my car makes better use of the at most 15% ethanol in 91 than it did before I got the kit installed.

Celicasaur

Well, a lot of us are envious of you having an E85 pump so accessible to you.

470whp and no excessive headers noise

CaptnCharisma

I wouldn't mind the header noise. I just don't want to deal with the pain of the *** smog and Johnny Law if I had headers. I can see is the potential power that I can make with E85 if I had a set of long tubes though.

Savage-wp

I have the same problem here in South Africa. E85 is sold and marketed as a racing fuel, and is considerably more expensive than pump gas.
I would love to get the flex fuel mod, but it's just not worth it here in SA.

Celicasaur

Ahhh fair play. Well, headers are LOUD....it's no exaggeration when you see countless threads saying the same thing. YouTube video's simply do not do it justice. I happen to love the sound....I just don't like the fact that I'm disturbing my street (not neighbours....the street )


Yeah it hurts man. I mean...the double price thing is one thing...but then with more fuel consumption...ouch. For example to fill my car it's around....let's call it £90GBP for 66 litres of fuel. 50 litres of race bred E85 (VP or Sunaco) is £210GBP. The ratio is meant to be...let's say....70-80%....50 litres of E85 and then 16 litres of pump fuel fits into this range nicely with a ~76% ratio for max power. SO.....I need to factor 16l x £1.30 (cost per litre) which makes a tank full cost a grand total of around £231GBP and it'll return me....dunno, let's say 'a couple' mpg less than normal (according to Dave's view earlier in the thread) which would equate to 14.6 gallons x 2 = let's say 30 miles less per tank.

Hmmm...at this point I'm thinking that for the difference in cost (~£140GBP) per tank, I can get at least two 11lb bottle refills of nitrous and run a conservative 70hp hit....

OR I guess the other way to look at it would be that it would be a treat for the summer and I should only allow myself one full tank of E85 per month and drive my car slightly less t avoid wasting the mixture on trips to the supermarket.... I know that sounds stupid, but I'm not sure how else to justify this to myself. Either that or work harder and bring in more disposable income

freddy-amg

I am very lucky here in Paraguay with at least half of gas stations having E98 priced at 33% less than gas. I do the mix to get 70% ethanol at the pump. I am waiting to do a new dyno. By now i can say that the extra power is amaizing.

Savage-wp

Thanks Freddy. Just keep rubbing it in.

Mag1c Carp3t

David are the injectors Bosch or a different brand. Would you sell only the injectors?

Slow_c63

iTrader: (1)

Can you please inbox me the cost of the full kit, including price of injectors if needed and any other needed accessories.

DavesMeanE's

Thanks! PM Sent

skratch77

Hey Dave is there any concern of the fuel sensor in the gas tank? I saw a few videos of people saying after a while there fuel gauge stopped working.

Also are you guys fluid dynamics? I raced a m3 the other night in my area and he was on e85 and we pulled over and started to talk and he told me what kit he has.

When I went to his kits site it had a kit for a c63 but was the same one you guys have at eurocharged. Along with your dynos and videos.

Are you guys the same or just the main seller for the c63 kit

DavesMeanE's

1.) How did the race with the M3 go?

2.) We have had no issues with fuel gauges in the long term test cars. I have no reason to believe that there is a relationship there.

3.) We have been developing the kits with Advanced Fuel Dynamics. They are right up the road and we do quite a bit of R&D in house for them, as well as the initial development and testing of their offerings.

4.) AFD is a separate company, and the owner is a personal friend.

Thanks!

Dave

skratch77

I was very impressed with his car I was neck to neck with him up to about 110 we did 4 pulls all the same but I was starting in 3rd gear(not optimal) because I was fighting traction in second and he was in 2nd but he traps 122 so it gave me a really good run.

Very impressed how fast he was and meeting up this weekend to hit the tack up.

I actually thought he was supercharged!

DavesMeanE's

E85 Brah... It gives you wings!

Thanks!

Dave

JQuala

Being a poor pc wateecooling designer. Asus pays me in hardware so I get paid when I sell the excess ones I don't use ie: I have BNIB 6950xs, Titan xp(2017) etc money is sparadoic can I buy injectors first, then the rest of the kit kinda pay as I go?

w204nyc

I've seen at least 8 C63's here in NY running it now. Great mod for sure!