FlexFuel for Everyone! Eurocharged ATX E85 Kits NOW AVAILABLE :)
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
Yeah, silly me for thinking that the best way to cool oil and coolant is with better..... coolers. I must be old school.
Ethanol is NOT a replacement for better coolers. There are certain benefits for sure, and the power bump is nice (not enough power isn't my most pressing issue), but that statement is just flat out wrong.
$8/gal at the track and I usually go through ~40gal on a weekend. Beats towing a trailer with 80gal of E85.
Ethanol is NOT a replacement for better coolers. There are certain benefits for sure, and the power bump is nice (not enough power isn't my most pressing issue), but that statement is just flat out wrong.
$8/gal at the track and I usually go through ~40gal on a weekend. Beats towing a trailer with 80gal of E85.
We don't need to get ugly over it, but 44o just seems like more of a band aid than a proper solution.
Thanks
Dave
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,752
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From: London, UK
W212 - E63 AMG
I see you're from the UK - what's the Ethanol/E85 availability situation over there? But honestly... It's like this - if any of y'all run race gas... MS109, VP Import, etc... you're spending boatloads on the precious 5 gallon pails of it... Ethanol is far cheaper, with all the benefits and MORE!
Cheers!
Cheers!
E85 here is pretty much non-existent. But that being said, I can have 120 litres delivered to me for £120GBP....my fuel tank is 59l (let's say 60l for this example). At a ratio of 50/50 (is the 25whp gain claim based on a 50:50 mix, or is it the max 80:20?), I'll be using around 30l of E85 per tank, which gives me 4 tank fulls...which will probably last me 2 months (I haven't taken into account the higher fuel consumption though). On the basis that 98 RON fuel is around £1.30GBP here, as long as the fuel consumption is only around 10% worse off, it wont really be costing any different to normal (assuming my math is correct...which it usually isn't). 20% worse fuel consumption....probably still wouldn't bother me much, on the basis that the power will be a lot stronger all over the powerband.
So yeah...question for you Dave is...by running a 50:50 mixture, can the ~25whp increase be seen? Also does the 25whp gain apply for just running E85 on the existing tune of the car? For the sake of streetability, I think I'd prefer not to have to worry about switching maps around for daily driving n stuff.
If both of these points can be satisfied, I think I'll be ordering in the next couple of months. Just a shame that the exchange rate and import taxes are going to hurt me a lot when i buy
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
Was just reading the thread again to catch any points I'd missed and seen your post.
E85 here is pretty much non-existent. But that being said, I can have 120 litres delivered to me for £120GBP....my fuel tank is 59l (let's say 60l for this example). At a ratio of 50/50 (is the 25whp gain claim based on a 50:50 mix, or is it the max 80:20?), I'll be using around 30l of E85 per tank, which gives me 4 tank fulls...which will probably last me 2 months (I haven't taken into account the higher fuel consumption though). On the basis that 98 RON fuel is around £1.30GBP here, as long as the fuel consumption is only around 10% worse off, it wont really be costing any different to normal (assuming my math is correct...which it usually isn't). 20% worse fuel consumption....probably still wouldn't bother me much, on the basis that the power will be a lot stronger all over the powerband.
So yeah...question for you Dave is...by running a 50:50 mixture, can the ~25whp increase be seen? Also does the 25whp gain apply for just running E85 on the existing tune of the car? For the sake of streetability, I think I'd prefer not to have to worry about switching maps around for daily driving n stuff.
If both of these points can be satisfied, I think I'll be ordering in the next couple of months. Just a shame that the exchange rate and import taxes are going to hurt me a lot when i buy
E85 here is pretty much non-existent. But that being said, I can have 120 litres delivered to me for £120GBP....my fuel tank is 59l (let's say 60l for this example). At a ratio of 50/50 (is the 25whp gain claim based on a 50:50 mix, or is it the max 80:20?), I'll be using around 30l of E85 per tank, which gives me 4 tank fulls...which will probably last me 2 months (I haven't taken into account the higher fuel consumption though). On the basis that 98 RON fuel is around £1.30GBP here, as long as the fuel consumption is only around 10% worse off, it wont really be costing any different to normal (assuming my math is correct...which it usually isn't). 20% worse fuel consumption....probably still wouldn't bother me much, on the basis that the power will be a lot stronger all over the powerband.
So yeah...question for you Dave is...by running a 50:50 mixture, can the ~25whp increase be seen? Also does the 25whp gain apply for just running E85 on the existing tune of the car? For the sake of streetability, I think I'd prefer not to have to worry about switching maps around for daily driving n stuff.
If both of these points can be satisfied, I think I'll be ordering in the next couple of months. Just a shame that the exchange rate and import taxes are going to hurt me a lot when i buy
You will still make more power, no matter what, in fact, just by plugging the system into a car running 91/93... we have seen modest 4-5whp gains by the system compensating for the 10-15% ethanol that's already in the the fuel. Not just one one car, but every car we have tested. M156's, M113k's, Hellcats, Corvette Zo6, BMW M3's (both supercharged and N/A), etc...
Just more and more power on up as you cut in more %
And yes to you other question, advertised power is based on your CURRENT tune, with more being available with the "HotMap"
Thanks!
Dave
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,074
Likes: 2,867
From: Los Angeles
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
But what you said here is a total joke, and makes it look like either a) you have no idea what you're talking about, or b) you're just desperate to sell more of these kits by throwing out total falsehoods and wild claims hoping that something sticks.
No person who actually knows these cars can say with a straight face that the 44O kit is a "band aid". Maybe you're confused what I'm talking about.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
I know this is your thread Dave, and I wish you the best of luck with this kit - it's certainly good for some people and as a happy EC customer I want you guys to do well.
But what you said here is a total joke, and makes it look like either a) you have no idea what you're talking about, or b) you're just desperate to sell more of these kits by throwing out total falsehoods and wild claims hoping that something sticks.
No person who actually knows these cars can say with a straight face that the 44O kit is a "band aid". Maybe you're confused what I'm talking about.
But what you said here is a total joke, and makes it look like either a) you have no idea what you're talking about, or b) you're just desperate to sell more of these kits by throwing out total falsehoods and wild claims hoping that something sticks.
No person who actually knows these cars can say with a straight face that the 44O kit is a "band aid". Maybe you're confused what I'm talking about.
Here's what I mean by "band-aid". MB - "Oops, our cars go into limp after a couple hard laps on the track on the vehicle that is our most *track ready* offering"
You just can't drive them hard for long, on warm days without having cooling issues. All I'm saying. MB fix - sell more coolers. Car should have come with them from the start.
Been an MB diag tech/team leader for over a decade before opening my shop, and have vast experience on the M156, M113, M157, and pretty much everything else MB has to offer. I have foreman notes for every conference call since 2003. I have a 59' 190SL in the shop right now, and just a week ago I had an SLS. Tomorrow I will have an UGR 1,600whp Gallrado here. I'm not tooting my own horn. Just showing my credentials. I know some things...
Thanks
Dave
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,697
Likes: 381
2005 E55
yes I figured the ECU would target fuel trims to compensate for the injectors but my main concern with people without a specific tune would run dangerously lean up top end when using e85.
right now I'm seeing 13.2 up top and I don't want to go any leaner.even with bigger injectors won't the car lean out on e85 with the map demanding more fuel?
I'm at 442whp on 93 map and have not tested 104 map as it's winter up here and the car is stored.
right now I'm seeing 13.2 up top and I don't want to go any leaner.even with bigger injectors won't the car lean out on e85 with the map demanding more fuel?
I'm at 442whp on 93 map and have not tested 104 map as it's winter up here and the car is stored.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
yes I figured the ECU would target fuel trims to compensate for the injectors but my main concern with people without a specific tune would run dangerously lean up top end when using e85.
right now I'm seeing 13.2 up top and I don't want to go any leaner.even with bigger injectors won't the car lean out on e85 with the map demanding more fuel?
I'm at 442whp on 93 map and have not tested 104 map as it's winter up here and the car is stored.
right now I'm seeing 13.2 up top and I don't want to go any leaner.even with bigger injectors won't the car lean out on e85 with the map demanding more fuel?
I'm at 442whp on 93 map and have not tested 104 map as it's winter up here and the car is stored.
Can be hard to explain in print, but if you call Adam, he will tell you more than you care to know - HAHA
512-777-2799
Thanks
Dave
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 251
Likes: 34
From: San Diego, CA
2015 G63, Sold 2010 C63 AMG Development Package
Another little update. Finally had a somewhat dry day here. On my way to work when I decided to get on it. With brand new rubber the car spun its tires shifting into 3rd and I had even put the throttle down all the way. It's never done that before so I was a little shocked. I've been getting decent gas mileage too out of it. My last fill up was saturday and I'm still above a 1/4 tank and the car is my daily driver. This has certainly been my favorite mod to the car yet.
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Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
Another little update. Finally had a somewhat dry day here. On my way to work when I decided to get on it. With brand new rubber the car spun its tires shifting into 3rd and I had even put the throttle down all the way. It's never done that before so I was a little shocked. I've been getting decent gas mileage too out of it. My last fill up was saturday and I'm still above a 1/4 tank and the car is my daily driver. This has certainly been my favorite mod to the car yet.
Please keep us posted
Thanks!
Dave
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 918
Likes: 21
From: NYC
2017 C63S coupe '09 C63, '15 Durango RT, '14 Jeep SRT8
Another little update. Finally had a somewhat dry day here. On my way to work when I decided to get on it. With brand new rubber the car spun its tires shifting into 3rd and I had even put the throttle down all the way. It's never done that before so I was a little shocked. I've been getting decent gas mileage too out of it. My last fill up was saturday and I'm still above a 1/4 tank and the car is my daily driver. This has certainly been my favorite mod to the car yet.
Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 164
Likes: 9
From: Miami, Fl
2009 C63
I know this is your thread Dave, and I wish you the best of luck with this kit - it's certainly good for some people and as a happy EC customer I want you guys to do well.
But what you said here is a total joke, and makes it look like either a) you have no idea what you're talking about, or b) you're just desperate to sell more of these kits by throwing out total falsehoods and wild claims hoping that something sticks.
No person who actually knows these cars can say with a straight face that the 44O kit is a "band aid". Maybe you're confused what I'm talking about.
But what you said here is a total joke, and makes it look like either a) you have no idea what you're talking about, or b) you're just desperate to sell more of these kits by throwing out total falsehoods and wild claims hoping that something sticks.
No person who actually knows these cars can say with a straight face that the 44O kit is a "band aid". Maybe you're confused what I'm talking about.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
Update on the E55 platform!
We have been building a sort of "Frankenstein" E55 around here, and we just had it on the dyno today. Naturally, as we are Eurocharged ATX, Jerry handled the tuning on this monster of a car!
It presented with very good numbers, but it's got more to give
these runs on 68%, moving up to 85% or so tomorrow
Thanks
Dave
We have been building a sort of "Frankenstein" E55 around here, and we just had it on the dyno today. Naturally, as we are Eurocharged ATX, Jerry handled the tuning on this monster of a car!
It presented with very good numbers, but it's got more to give
these runs on 68%, moving up to 85% or so tomorrow
Thanks
Dave
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 918
Likes: 21
From: NYC
2017 C63S coupe '09 C63, '15 Durango RT, '14 Jeep SRT8
Picked my car up today and initial start up was fine. Every start up since has been normal. Rough idle after start up just once but no check engine light.
Initial thoughts....it's different. Haven't had time to use E85 but I will tomorrow. Full tank of it. But without it, surprisingly the car shifts better lol. Sounds different inside the cabin in a good way. Idling is calmer and quieter if that makes any sense.
Tomorrow I am filling up with full tank of E85, I will report how she feels. Probably wont dyno because number never meant sh*t to me.
Initial thoughts....it's different. Haven't had time to use E85 but I will tomorrow. Full tank of it. But without it, surprisingly the car shifts better lol. Sounds different inside the cabin in a good way. Idling is calmer and quieter if that makes any sense.
Tomorrow I am filling up with full tank of E85, I will report how she feels. Probably wont dyno because number never meant sh*t to me.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 10
From: Los Angeles
2009 C63
Picked my car up today and initial start up was fine. Every start up since has been normal. Rough idle after start up just once but no check engine light.
Initial thoughts....it's different. Haven't had time to use E85 but I will tomorrow. Full tank of it. But without it, surprisingly the car shifts better lol. Sounds different inside the cabin in a good way. Idling is calmer and quieter if that makes any sense.
Tomorrow I am filling up with full tank of E85, I will report how she feels. Probably wont dyno because number never meant sh*t to me.
Initial thoughts....it's different. Haven't had time to use E85 but I will tomorrow. Full tank of it. But without it, surprisingly the car shifts better lol. Sounds different inside the cabin in a good way. Idling is calmer and quieter if that makes any sense.
Tomorrow I am filling up with full tank of E85, I will report how she feels. Probably wont dyno because number never meant sh*t to me.
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 918
Likes: 21
From: NYC
2017 C63S coupe '09 C63, '15 Durango RT, '14 Jeep SRT8
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 425
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e63 amg w212 6.3
Picked my car up today and initial start up was fine. Every start up since has been normal. Rough idle after start up just once but no check engine light.
Initial thoughts....it's different. Haven't had time to use E85 but I will tomorrow. Full tank of it. But without it, surprisingly the car shifts better lol. Sounds different inside the cabin in a good way. Idling is calmer and quieter if that makes any sense.
Tomorrow I am filling up with full tank of E85, I will report how she feels. Probably wont dyno because number never meant sh*t to me.
Initial thoughts....it's different. Haven't had time to use E85 but I will tomorrow. Full tank of it. But without it, surprisingly the car shifts better lol. Sounds different inside the cabin in a good way. Idling is calmer and quieter if that makes any sense.
Tomorrow I am filling up with full tank of E85, I will report how she feels. Probably wont dyno because number never meant sh*t to me.
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 918
Likes: 21
From: NYC
2017 C63S coupe '09 C63, '15 Durango RT, '14 Jeep SRT8
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
Thread Starter
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 541
Likes: 130
From: Georgetown, TX
93' 500E, 95' Corolla
Super Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 918
Likes: 21
From: NYC
2017 C63S coupe '09 C63, '15 Durango RT, '14 Jeep SRT8
