R13 vs R14 Lug Bolt. Any Concern?
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2014 E550 Sedan
R13 vs R14 Lug Bolt. Any Concern?
I purchased a used C63 to find out that I only have 3 spacers installed, that somehow passed the Mercedes pre-purchase inspection I paid for independently.
This same shop now found out the car only has 3 spacers, now that I'm a few months down the road after purchase getting a transmission, differential and brake fluid flush. The car had 10mm spacers on 3 corners, but it has the wrong lug bolt style as well. I'm assuming the BMW dealer I purchased the car from left one of the spacers off by accident during their "inspection". The bolts are not R14 and aren't seating properly, but that's all I know. The Mercedes dealer performing the maintenance broke 2 lug bolts after they completed my maintenance items I listed above, and that is how I found out of all this fun.
Thru my search, I found Otis and RAD were preferred setups so I contacted Phil today. I'm purchasing a 12mm spacer for the front, and new lug bolts all the way around. He only has R13 style in the lengths I need, 39mm and 37mm. He assured me the difference in R13 vs R14 would not cause any issues whatsoever. Since I'm new to this, I wanted to ask your thoughts.
Would you go with the R13 in proper length, or should I look around for another vendor for R14 in the proper length?
Thanks!
This same shop now found out the car only has 3 spacers, now that I'm a few months down the road after purchase getting a transmission, differential and brake fluid flush. The car had 10mm spacers on 3 corners, but it has the wrong lug bolt style as well. I'm assuming the BMW dealer I purchased the car from left one of the spacers off by accident during their "inspection". The bolts are not R14 and aren't seating properly, but that's all I know. The Mercedes dealer performing the maintenance broke 2 lug bolts after they completed my maintenance items I listed above, and that is how I found out of all this fun.
Thru my search, I found Otis and RAD were preferred setups so I contacted Phil today. I'm purchasing a 12mm spacer for the front, and new lug bolts all the way around. He only has R13 style in the lengths I need, 39mm and 37mm. He assured me the difference in R13 vs R14 would not cause any issues whatsoever. Since I'm new to this, I wanted to ask your thoughts.
Would you go with the R13 in proper length, or should I look around for another vendor for R14 in the proper length?
Thanks!
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Without knowing the specific seat differences between R13 and R14, because that doesn't really matter. The fact is that there is a correct fitment, and all other options are in some way an incorrect fitment. They're your wheels, man. You need them to stay on, and out of an overabundance of caution - because having a wheel come off is just about the worst thing that can happen while driving, outside of hitting an elephant or having your brakes completely fail or something - you should always use exactly the recommended lug bolt. Could you be ok? Sure. But why spend any time thinking about it.
Edit: Says the guy tracking his car on titanium lug nuts, just because.... this thread is a good reminder to take my own advice probably.
Edit: Says the guy tracking his car on titanium lug nuts, just because.... this thread is a good reminder to take my own advice probably.
Last edited by BLKROKT; Feb 17, 2017 at 02:46 PM.
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2014 E550 Sedan
That's how I was thinking as well, but Phil said there is a 1 degree seat difference in the R13 and R14, make sense to me, and it would sit into the rim, just not touch the sides like a R14 would.
Any recommendations for lug bolts, other than Tikore?
Any recommendations for lug bolts, other than Tikore?
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2014 E550 Sedan
They seem to be the preferred company, but he is out of stock on the sizes I need in R14 for the short-term. I think I'll run the R13's until Phil gets the correct sizes in stock.
Thanks for your input man!
Thanks for your input man!
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2010 C63 AMG
I wouldn't, you need an R14 if you want proper contact.
Check out bhamg's image from the thread below using an R13 on OEM wheels.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-length-2.html
EDIT: Couldn't find a good picture on the internetz so I drew one. The "ball" in a ball seat lug bolt is cut from is the same size "ball" between the two (assuming the same bolt size obviously). It's just that the R13 is cut a little lower (that's how I understand it so that could be wrong...). Depending how deep the seat is in the OEM wheel, you may not get as much contact area using an R13 in an R14 wheel.
Check out bhamg's image from the thread below using an R13 on OEM wheels.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-length-2.html
EDIT: Couldn't find a good picture on the internetz so I drew one. The "ball" in a ball seat lug bolt is cut from is the same size "ball" between the two (assuming the same bolt size obviously). It's just that the R13 is cut a little lower (that's how I understand it so that could be wrong...). Depending how deep the seat is in the OEM wheel, you may not get as much contact area using an R13 in an R14 wheel.
Last edited by Jasonoff; Feb 17, 2017 at 05:50 PM.
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I mean, what are you doing man? Use your head.
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Well I have two broken lug bolts, most likely from cheap Chinese materials, so I don't agree that's better than running a lug bolt that is off by 1 degree. Phil from Rad is telling me the R13 has 1 less degree for the head contact angle, and it would 100% be fine. I like to follow factory specs on things like this and is why posted the question here.
His explanation is an R13 bolt in a R14 wheel socket will sit inside the rim as far as the R14 bolt would, but the contact patch would be slightly less. The inverse is true if trying to use an R14 bolt in an R13 wheel socket. You wouldn't be able to get the lug bolt seated as far into the rim because the bolt head would be too large, but the R14 lug bolt would fully fill the wheel socket. Jasonoff's post clearly visualizes this, and regardless what I was told today by Otis, I'm not comfortable with. I have a car with incorrect lugs and am only trying to get a better solution than the brittle crap holding the wheel to the car now.
Looks like I need to search more for R14 lugs in 37 and 40 mm shank length. Does any have any recommendations other than Rad/Otis or Ticore (don't need titanium).
His explanation is an R13 bolt in a R14 wheel socket will sit inside the rim as far as the R14 bolt would, but the contact patch would be slightly less. The inverse is true if trying to use an R14 bolt in an R13 wheel socket. You wouldn't be able to get the lug bolt seated as far into the rim because the bolt head would be too large, but the R14 lug bolt would fully fill the wheel socket. Jasonoff's post clearly visualizes this, and regardless what I was told today by Otis, I'm not comfortable with. I have a car with incorrect lugs and am only trying to get a better solution than the brittle crap holding the wheel to the car now.
Looks like I need to search more for R14 lugs in 37 and 40 mm shank length. Does any have any recommendations other than Rad/Otis or Ticore (don't need titanium).
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Thread Starter
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2014 E550 Sedan
I wouldn't, you need an R14 if you want proper contact.
Check out bhamg's image from the thread below using an R13 on OEM wheels.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-length-2.html
EDIT: Couldn't find a good picture on the internetz so I drew one. The "ball" in a ball seat lug bolt is cut from is the same size "ball" between the two (assuming the same bolt size obviously). It's just that the R13 is cut a little lower (that's how I understand it so that could be wrong...). Depending how deep the seat is in the OEM wheel, you may not get as much contact area using an R13 in an R14 wheel.
Check out bhamg's image from the thread below using an R13 on OEM wheels.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-length-2.html
EDIT: Couldn't find a good picture on the internetz so I drew one. The "ball" in a ball seat lug bolt is cut from is the same size "ball" between the two (assuming the same bolt size obviously). It's just that the R13 is cut a little lower (that's how I understand it so that could be wrong...). Depending how deep the seat is in the OEM wheel, you may not get as much contact area using an R13 in an R14 wheel.
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2010 C63 AMG
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2014 E550 Sedan
H&R only have 35mm and 40mm lug bolts when I ideally need 37 and 39. I wouldn't think the 40mm would give me any trouble in the front over 1mm of extra length, but the 35mm, being 2mm shorter for the rear concern me.
What's the consensus on this? This seems way harder than it should be. ha
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2010 C63 AMG
So this is the dilemma I had with Rad and is why he recommended the correct length with a slightly smaller bolt head (R13).
H&R only have 35mm and 40mm lug bolts when I ideally need 37 and 39. I wouldn't think the 40mm would give me any trouble in the front over 1mm of extra length, but the 35mm, being 2mm shorter for the rear concern me.
What's the consensus on this? This seems way harder than it should be. ha
H&R only have 35mm and 40mm lug bolts when I ideally need 37 and 39. I wouldn't think the 40mm would give me any trouble in the front over 1mm of extra length, but the 35mm, being 2mm shorter for the rear concern me.
What's the consensus on this? This seems way harder than it should be. ha
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Rad emailed me back last night and said for $2/bolt they will grind down the bolts to proper spec length. This, or me using a belt sander looks like the best option, as has been pointed out. It's just surprising there isn't more shank length options out there as common as spacers are.
I wanted to update this thread for any future searches since it seems even after several years, the lug bolt length options haven't changed.
I wanted to update this thread for any future searches since it seems even after several years, the lug bolt length options haven't changed.
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2010 C63 AMG
Rad emailed me back last night and said for $2/bolt they will grind down the bolts to proper spec length. This, or me using a belt sander looks like the best option, as has been pointed out. It's just surprising there isn't more shank length options out there as common as spacers are.
I wanted to update this thread for any future searches since it seems even after several years, the lug bolt length options haven't changed.
I wanted to update this thread for any future searches since it seems even after several years, the lug bolt length options haven't changed.
I just installed spacers, H&R, F = 12 mm, R =10 mm using 40 mm H&R bolts. It looks good, but it is tight with the 245/265 tires, no rubbing but I haven't pushed it or loaded it up yet.
I was concerned about the rear bolts being too long but I could move the wheel no rubbing. I also measured the clearance with a depth mic and it is ~45 mm (conservative) from the bottom of the seat until you hit something (oem shank 26-27 mm and H&R is 40 mm). I also pulled the bolts after driving a bit, no marks/scoring. The H&R sheet does say to be careful with some MB models as there is as little as 2 mm clearance. Torqueq to 96 lb ft per manual. (actually 96 first pass, 98 second pass after driving a bit)
They do give the car more of a 'pitbull' like stance.
I was concerned about the rear bolts being too long but I could move the wheel no rubbing. I also measured the clearance with a depth mic and it is ~45 mm (conservative) from the bottom of the seat until you hit something (oem shank 26-27 mm and H&R is 40 mm). I also pulled the bolts after driving a bit, no marks/scoring. The H&R sheet does say to be careful with some MB models as there is as little as 2 mm clearance. Torqueq to 96 lb ft per manual. (actually 96 first pass, 98 second pass after driving a bit)
They do give the car more of a 'pitbull' like stance.
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So that you can sleep tonight, I did read the link, and I'm using 40mm bolts for the front.
The factory 27mm length + a 12mm spacer in the front = 39mm. I'm sure the 40mm will be fine.
The rear is 27mm + a 10mm spacer =37mm's and I've seen conflicting accounts on fitment. This is why I'm using a 40mm, bolt shaved down to 37mm, rather than a 35mm "in stock" bolt.
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2010 C63 AMG
So that you can sleep tonight, I did read the link, and I'm using 40mm bolts for the front.
The factory 27mm length + a 12mm spacer in the front = 39mm. I'm sure the 40mm will be fine.
The rear is 27mm + a 10mm spacer =37mm's and I've seen conflicting accounts on fitment. This is why I'm using a 40mm, bolt shaved down to 37mm, rather than a 35mm "in stock" bolt.
The factory 27mm length + a 12mm spacer in the front = 39mm. I'm sure the 40mm will be fine.
The rear is 27mm + a 10mm spacer =37mm's and I've seen conflicting accounts on fitment. This is why I'm using a 40mm, bolt shaved down to 37mm, rather than a 35mm "in stock" bolt.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...65-18-pss.html
Why not do 12mm all around anyway?
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Lots of users have a 10mm spacer with 40mm bolt in the rear. I think I heard of one person saying a 40mm bolt bolt hit the rear parking brake spring.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...65-18-pss.html
Why not do 12mm all around anyway?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...65-18-pss.html
Why not do 12mm all around anyway?
