When dealing with high oil OR coolant temperatures, the best guys to talk to are the shops and guys who do a lot of "street rods", especially Deuce Coupes (1932 Ford based hot rods).

Those cars are significantly smaller than a C63 and have pretty small engine spaces and the radiator size is severely limited by the historically important radiator shape and size and the tight clearance between radiator, fan, and engine. This makes them run very HOT, even just CRUISING on the street, let alone under load. (Deuce Coupes are not suitable for track use! )

After decades of accumulated passed-down knowledge and experience, those guys and shops have learned all the tricks applicable when stuffing big and powerful V8s into engine compartments that were designed for tiny 4 cylinder, double-digit horsepower engines. They've made Hemi engines survive in some of those cars, and last year, I drove a Deuce Coupe into which the owner had paid a shop to install a brand new crate Hemi engine, close to 400 hp, and matching auto transmission and ECU, and also even AC! I drove that car for about 35 minutes in the city and out in the sticks, and it ran at normal coolant and oil temperatures despite the cram job, and despite having a 3-piece hood (folding top and sides). I never had the opportunity to get the details from him. But, those details are out there at those specialist shops.

I have also driven a '34 Ford with a 454 rat engine! No cooling issues despite the obvious mismatch in car and engine sizes!

ONE of the things those shops pay special attention to is custom design shape and sizing of the fan shroud to ensure that as much air as possible is force inducted through the radiator via the fan and then used to air-wash the engine itself before being exhausted out via the chassis. This makes a huge difference in city use. And the pros know better than to run those silly underdrive pulleys on their fans.

One thing that MB did for aerodynamic fuel-saving reasons that probably hurts us is the excellent chassis sealing. That really limits any cooling that can occur outside the "designated" radiator, AC radiator, and oil cooler air paths. Seriously, removing some of the aero chassis stuff COULD make cooling better, even while hurting fuel economy and aero performance.

Jim G

 

You've got to be kidding me

 

Why? Owners have already applied aggressive aftermarket tunes, exhausts, supercharger kits, etc. Why stop there?

To some of us, preserving aftermarket warranties and day-to-day reliability is important, but a lot of owners on this forum said goodbye to those a long time ago, and have also shown that the mod and repair costs apparently don't scare them.

Compared to SERIOUS street rods, even the more modded C63s on this forum are pretty "conservative". There are street rods out there running complete aftermarket performance chassis's, aftermarket bodies, Jaguar rear suspensions and rear ends, quick change rear ends, incredible sound systems stuffed into tiny '32 passenger compartments, etc, etc. Some of them would giggle at what we call serious mods.

And that's not even considering the 10 second Japanese street cars whose bodies and engine compartments are smaller than ours. Take off your blinders.

I guess for some here, it's all just whining about still-unsolved problems, and no solutions . . .

Jim G

 

jim...jim boy...

this post was useless and pretty inaccurate. how many HP per liter do these "hot rods" make? are they ever "tracked"? apples to oranges buddy. how many of them even know what their temps are? none! what you don't know doesn't hurt you til it does.

 

I've got to (begrudgingly) agree with JimG to an extent here. Taking practical knowledge and experience with other forms of motoring can lead to creative solutions for many other cars. It's not apples-to-apples exactly, but it helps to look at these things from different perspectives. Heat is heat, and there are only so many ways to extract it. All engines operate basically the same way, and have basically the same plumbing. I have parts on my car from yachting supply stores, Summit/Jegs, and all sorts of other places pieced together to address issues.

Thanks for the insight JimG. I'm actually starting to sketch out plans for a massive transmission cooler, and it won't use MB parts that's for sure.

 

never said you were jealous. Didn't even mean to imply that. And thanks I can tell the difference between water and oil temps.

definite possibility temp sender is bad, just odd it would be "ok" before an oil change and 30 minutes later go bad. But anything is possible and since it looks to be a fairly cheap part not a huge waste to "throw parts" at the problem.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/..._pg2.htm#item8

I would appreciate a steer to any good sources of exploded views for M156. Not sure where the sender is located on the engine.

 

Thanks, Blkrokt. I think that if you do develop a workable better transmission cooler, you could probably sell a kit on this forum. Automatic transmissions are almost always a weak link in the powertrain of a performance vehicle, and since the MB tranny is so costly, a better cooler would be a great investment.

On the Chevy SSR (retro styled pickup) forum I used to hang around, one of the forum members ("Mike from AZ") who was a quality engineer by profession developed a whole SERIES of aftermarket solutions for common SSR problems, and became one of the most popular vendors and sponsors on the site. As it turned out, his engineering and quality background was a perfect fit for the many unresolved problems in the SSR when it went to market in a rush.

ONE of the products he developed and VERY successfully sold on the forum was a powerful shrouded fan assembly that a large percentage of the forum members bought. It made a HUGE difference with that vehicle, where the 2005 and 2006 model years had a 400 hp Corvette engine as standard equipment, stuffed into a 1930s style engine compartment (very narrow with very wide and very enclosive fenders, and a low vertical radiator height - sound familiar, C63 owners?.)

On that same vehicle and forum, I myself bought and installed with a friend a heavy duty "hotrod" transmission cooler for my built tranny (3000 stall converter, behind a supercharged 575 hp engine, with 300ms shifts). It dropped the transmission sensor temperature by 40 degrees.

Jim G

 

Good stuff JimG. I think the first place to start in designing a DIY transmission cooler, is to figure out every spec of the OE unit. Bigger isn't always better, and my gut tells me that the stock cooler is a fairly efficient thing. Once you figure that out, you can start looking at more efficient cores so you can fit a larger and higher efficiency improved cooler in a marginally greater space. Then figure out the end tank config, maybe custom hoses, and mounting. It doesn't sound that hard honestly. Getting the connections perfect is bound to be the trickiest part.

 

Did you also purchase the (VÄTH) Vaeth Trans Cooler? We would def appreciate your take and feedback on the Vaeth units as there is none, and no photo I can find on their Trans Cooler. C63 FL models come with a significantly larger Trans Cooler (same as used on the Black Series) than the PFL models, but FL MCT is known to still see high temps.

Found this older thread on Vaeth products, and there is even mention of a FUEL cooler using a seemingly counter-current system. Interesting stuff, def need more application data:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...-products.html

 

Serial operation and exact location of the cooler to maximize airflow were also big factors on the SSR tranny cooler. We ADDED the new cooler to the existing cooler circuit, and we positioned it for as much airflow as we could find. The cooler we bought had costlier more complex fin shape and density too, and we spared no expense in getting low resistance couplings to minimize flow impedance, since we were adding the cooler inline with the loest-bid, crappy factory cooler.

I also added an oil cooler to my Harley, again going with the largest, most efficient fin shape, and with hi-flow couplings that cost notably more than typical. That dropped the oil temperature in the Harley oil tank from 240 to 205 max, and cruising in ore moderate temperatures at 185 to 190.

Jim G

 

I thought the same, 44O was one bigger cooler for engine oil and the other in the wheel arch was trans cooler?

Are they both engine oil coolers then on the 44O package?

 

44O Package only upgrades both the Aux Oil Cooler in the Passenger Wheel Arch (and deletes the existing fan there), and the Main Oil Cooler to Black Series specs. The upgraded Main Oil cooler now sits lower and in position parallel to ground, which aids in air flow across both this oil cooler, and the existing Trans Cooler above it.

The 44O Package does nothing to upgrade the existing Trans Cooler. It does include new/different Trans Oil Lines to reroute around the upgraded Main Oil Cooler.

 

Talked about it a bit here too, but never called for specs. There was a link to the Vath product in there, but doesn't appear to send you to the trans cooler anymore.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post7130066

Found it. Page 12 on this list. 690EUR
http://www.vaeth.com/images/Vaeth/PD...L_ENG_W204.pdf

 

Thanks for clearing that up, Am I correct in thinking that the trans cooler is what Weistec mention you can add to the ports of the upgraded trans pan? I contacted them regarding an additional oil cooler for that but got no response.

I think eventually I will get the 44O package then use a company near by that builds race cars to see if there is any futher improvements they could make over the two additional black series ones, If they can make improvements and I can test them against the 44O package I will then sell the black series coolers and just keep the lines, wheel arch and undertray.

 

Yes, I believe what Weistec is referring to add to the ports on their upgraded Trans Pan is an additional cooler for the Trans Pan itself (as we already have a Trans Cooler), which would likely require a pump and new lines

 

Thanks, Jim. Yeah, seen that before. ~$800 USD is a bit spendy for just a Trans Cooler. Wish we had some photos and specs to see and compare to our stock one.
I'll email Vaeth and see what they can provide.

$1760 USD for the Fuel Cooler

 

"Serious" street rods spend most of their time idling or parked. Perhaps a few quick passes down the drag strip and that's it.

Now if you were talking about track cars that see consistent long and repeated applications of full throttle then you'd have something that makes sense. Cooling for the drag strip is practically a non-event.

Source: I've had more than one.

 

You and I obviously "use" serious street rods differently. I USE mine well beyond "idling" and "parked" modes.

But by the way, "parked" and "parade" use usually provokes street rod overheating much faster than track time, as there is no airflow.

Jim G

 

One small electric fan and that's that cooling problem at low speed solved.

 

Uh, no. Personal experience: on my supercharged (575hp) Chevy SSR retro pickup, TWO electric fans side by side in a double cowl were not enough to keep it cool in stop and go traffic.

Actually LISTEN to any actual shop that does a lot of street rods, and they will tell you that this is the number one challenge on most of them.

Jim G

 

Chevy SSR reference sighted

How many fans does it take for the Mustang? Over/under is 8, taking bets.

 

Interestingly, I never had a cooling problem in stop and go, ever, with the Mustang, even with the Rousch kit which brought the engine to about 470 crank hp. The Mustang body by the way was ALMOST EXACTLY the same width and length car as the C63. The only significant dimensional difference was in the height of the greenhouse (The C63 is a couple of inches higher).

I also don't appear to have a cooling problem with the C63. Recently, I got stuck in a BC-Hydro-induced traffic jam that lasted 4 miles at stop and go, with go being never higher than walking speed and never beyond 30 feet at a time. The coolant gauge never moved so I never even looked at the oil reading. So whatever MB did works great in stop and go, but apparently falls short on a track.

Every car has its peculiarities. When I was into Corvettes, the Z06s when tracked overheated their differentials before their engines. GM finally added differential coolers.

Jim G

 

Yeah I'm actually looking right now at some of the Corvette and GT-R forums to see what they're doing for additional transmission cooling on track. I'm finding some interesting solutions out there.

 

My cars are built, not bought. I don't need to listen to specious advice from someone at a "shop" with no more credentials than flunking out of auto shop in high school.

 

Actually, I was thinking that about YOU, but was too polite to say so. Up until I moved to Canada 11 months ago, 2 of my best friends in Texas were owner and operators of hot rod and restoration shops, and I spent a lot of time watching, talking with them, and doing my own vehicles with them. I suspect I know a hell of a lot more about custom cars than you do.

But hey, do it your way. Maybe you are naturally smarter than all the rest of us.

Jim G