M156 HeadBolt Fairytale
07-07-2018, 12:37 AM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
M156 HeadBolt Fairytale
Had the the Benz all tuned up. Fresh moly, trans fluid, and Fuchs diff. What can I say, EC V6. , drop ins, E85 , exhaust.... she’s pulling real good. 09 C63 tearing through the Georgia mountains, so much so that I ended up with a ticket. No worries, I made up for it in the 300 mile trip when a good ole mustang taunted me. Downshifted and ripped it from 50 to 130. Yea he wasn’t having it, backed off, cruzed home. Recieved a lecture from my girl. This was last Sunday. I got it baby, I’ll drive to work ( Monday morning-we work together). Car runs great. Go on lunch, eat lunch at the casa, no worries. Got tailgated and ripped it again to 130. Get back to work. So me and my girl are ready to leave, turn the key and I get a real slow crank. I plugged in Torque Pro. Try and start again and it barely starts with throttle play. The car was running super rough and smoking (oil and gas). I pulled the codes and saw misfire 8 and 7 cylinder. I knew what was up. I decided to try and nurse the car home . I made it about 2 miles when I saw a huge cloud of white smoke come out of the right exhaust. I have an x pipe (left bank). HEADBOLTS! Got the car towed to MB. They want me to replace the spark plugs. They say the coolant leak test came back good. The problem I have is that the plugs and coils were changed 18k ago. I do not have a low cololant warning, probably because I knew what happened and turned the car off. What is the likelihood that I have misfires on cylinders 7 and 8 at the exact same time + tons of white smoke? My car is currently under warranty and at the dealer all stock, but it seems that the SA is completely unaware of the headbolt issue, so I’ll send him the TSB on Monday. I need some advice, I’m not going to pay 550$ for the plug change when that’s not the root cause. What should I tell the SA to avoid a bunch of unnecessary expenses in the process? I live in a fairly big city with 63s I’m really surprised they don’t know what’s going on with these motors. Is the TSB enough to get the tech to dive deeper or am I going to have to play 50:50? My warranty will only cover necessary work (related to the failure). Is it likely that this failure is non headbolt related? Oil looks new, only 500 miles, no signs of water. Is it possible my HB failed so only coolant hits the cylinder? Help is much appreciated.
Last edited by Dtorre1240; 07-07-2018 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Correction
07-07-2018, 05:24 AM
#2
Sounds like your head bolt is about to go.
seems the dealer is trying to avoid ur warraty claim as well.
you should do a compression test, il bet those misfire cylinders have lower compression.
seems the dealer is trying to avoid ur warraty claim as well.
you should do a compression test, il bet those misfire cylinders have lower compression.
07-07-2018, 06:27 AM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
I asked the SA. If the coolant leak test was done at operating temp or when cold. I googled this and it seems as though MB does this test cold, halfway to OT, and operating
Temp but not sure if this procedure was actually followed. Funny thing is the warranty is through a 3rd party so MB won't be footing the bill. They also mentioned my oil was over filled, about 1/2 qt. This was the ceratec additive from the oil change a week prior I'm guessing.The compression test needs to be done with the engine fairly warm for the rings to expand?
Temp but not sure if this procedure was actually followed. Funny thing is the warranty is through a 3rd party so MB won't be footing the bill. They also mentioned my oil was over filled, about 1/2 qt. This was the ceratec additive from the oil change a week prior I'm guessing.The compression test needs to be done with the engine fairly warm for the rings to expand?
Last edited by Dtorre1240; 07-07-2018 at 06:47 AM.
07-07-2018, 12:24 PM
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Were you running straight E85 at the time? Check to see if your fuel pressure holds after the pump is primed. I had similar symptoms when I had some injectors go bad.
07-23-2018, 03:48 PM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
So I’ve had the car for about a week and a half. The dealer tells me there is nothing wrong. This morning one of my radiator hoses blew off in a parking lot and all my coolant is gone. Going back to the dealer. At this point I’m almost certain there is some kind of leak from the head gasket.
07-23-2018, 04:56 PM
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
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07-23-2018, 05:31 PM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
I wish that was an option but the nearest one is several hours away. The car is at the dealer now. I told the SA to have the master tech call me in the AM.
07-23-2018, 06:00 PM
#9
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So I’ve had the car for about a week and a half. The dealer tells me there is nothing wrong. This morning one of my radiator hoses blew off in a parking lot and all my coolant is gone. Going back to the dealer. At this point I’m almost certain there is some kind of leak from the head gasket.
07-23-2018, 08:30 PM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
I agree, it seems like my headbolt failire is very minor (maybe a cracked bolt) and only shows itself under certain conditions. All the issue I have have had have been when the engine is warm. I'm guessing the heat expansion allows my problems to surface explaining why my leak down and compression test are coming back good from the dealer. At this point I have enough evidence to think my headbolts are bad. I'm going to instruct the tech to start inspection at the 7 and 8 cylinder location. It's a gamble if there isn't an issue that the service will come out of my pocket, but the odds are in my favor. Fingers crossed, I really hope it's bolts.
07-23-2018, 11:09 PM
#11
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Another story of our cars not running right on E85. Likely what triggered this deterioration. M156 isn't meant for E85, pony up the money and run higher than 91 if you can.
07-23-2018, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by blackbenzz
Pressurizing the coolant system. Head bolts most likely
07-24-2018, 04:00 AM
#13
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Give them a call.
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
They have quiet some experience with the M156.
I assume your current dealer in the one in Greenville, if so they are not that good with AMG's. They refused doing an alignment on my car because it was lowered on springs. Coworker has also bad experience with them. Damaged wheel and forgot to tighten up a coolant cap.
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
They have quiet some experience with the M156.
I assume your current dealer in the one in Greenville, if so they are not that good with AMG's. They refused doing an alignment on my car because it was lowered on springs. Coworker has also bad experience with them. Damaged wheel and forgot to tighten up a coolant cap.
Last edited by sventastic82; 07-24-2018 at 04:07 AM.
07-24-2018, 07:35 AM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
Give them a call.
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
They have quiet some experience with the M156.
I assume your current dealer in the one in Greenville, if so they are not that good with AMG's. They refused doing an alignment on my car because it was lowered on springs. Coworker has also bad experience with them. Damaged wheel and forgot to tighten up a coolant cap.
http://www.blueridgemb.com/
They have quiet some experience with the M156.
I assume your current dealer in the one in Greenville, if so they are not that good with AMG's. They refused doing an alignment on my car because it was lowered on springs. Coworker has also bad experience with them. Damaged wheel and forgot to tighten up a coolant cap.
08-20-2018, 03:09 AM
#17
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Cooling systems should contain fluid and zero air. Air pockets create pressure known as 'air-lock' and result in hotter engines, often enough to overheat an engine.
When the head sealing is compromised on a motor, there is a continual supply of pressurised air/gas and evil coming from the chambers. TBH a hose popping off is actually a nice warning (albeit inconvenient and messy) to stop driving and take action. Sooner or later the next thing to happen could be a total head gasket/headbolt failure, resulting in a hydrolocked motor, or warped head(s) if allowed to overheat.
When the head sealing is compromised on a motor, there is a continual supply of pressurised air/gas and evil coming from the chambers. TBH a hose popping off is actually a nice warning (albeit inconvenient and messy) to stop driving and take action. Sooner or later the next thing to happen could be a total head gasket/headbolt failure, resulting in a hydrolocked motor, or warped head(s) if allowed to overheat.
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08-21-2018, 01:58 PM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
So a quick update, Mercedes took responsibility for the hose popping off. They said that the metal u-clip was worn and did not hold the hose like it should. This is the hose they disconnect for the leak down test. I took the car on a business trip over 400 miles and have not had any issues since. I have a feeling that either 1 ) some how the e85 kit is causing an issue with the injectors randomly or 2) my oil being over filled around a quart could have caused the engine to blow oil back into the cylinder. At the moment I am running all of the mods except the e85 kit. My goal is to see if the issue happens again, then I will know that the problem doesn't follow the flex kit. I have had zero low coolant warnings to date. I may have a few injectors that are on there way out that may get pushed harder than normal when hooked up to the flex kit.
The plan is to get new injectors once my car gets out of the body shop because some outstanding citizen keyed my car down to the metal.
The plan is to get new injectors once my car gets out of the body shop because some outstanding citizen keyed my car down to the metal.
Last edited by Dtorre1240; 08-21-2018 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Typo
10-01-2018, 08:19 AM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
Update: I took off the fuel rail, cleaned ,and flow tested all the injectors, everything looks good. Next, I am going to take off the intake manifold and clean/inspect both the throttles and manifold and everything else related along with install an oil catch can. I'll see where that takes me. I found this video of the exact same thing my car was doing. Maybe the flex kit does something to the injectors that can cause them to get stuck? Is it possible the increased duty cycle adds stress to these injectors that when ran on 93 they don't act funny? The Flex Kit is off the car and no issues since. I think at this point I can rule out head bolts.
10-01-2018, 06:10 PM
#20
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Update: I took off the fuel rail, cleaned ,and flow tested all the injectors, everything looks good. Next, I am going to take off the intake manifold and clean/inspect both the throttles and manifold and everything else related along with install an oil catch can. I'll see where that takes me. I found this video of the exact same thing my car was doing. Maybe the flex kit does something to the injectors that can cause them to get stuck? Is it possible the increased duty cycle adds stress to these injectors that when ran on 93 they don't act funny? The Flex Kit is off the car and no issues since. I think at this point I can rule out head bolts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNfF8MyavCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNfF8MyavCk
The injectors are very sensitive and can stay open especially after testing.
10-02-2018, 06:45 AM
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2009 C63, 2007 650I, 2014 F350
I've been running Bosch 590cc injectors with the Eflexfuel kit for a while now. Runs like a champ, with no issues. At WOT, running straight E85, with headers, the 590 injectors never get above 40% duty cycle. You will need EV1 adapters for those though.
10-02-2018, 08:29 AM
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2009 C63 AMG, 1998 Nissan Frontier
Appreciate the feedback everyone. I think what I am going to do is run the updated stock injectors until my warranty runs out to avoid any issues if I need to make a claim. Are there any that are direct plug in?
