bhamg

The present work shows a novel method for generating in-situ low friction tribofilms containing tungsten disulphide in lubricated contacts using diallyl disulphide as sulphur precursor. The approach relies on the tribo-chemical interaction between the diallyl disulphide and a surface containing embedded sub-micrometer tungsten carbide particles. The results show that upon sliding contact between diallyl disulphide and the tungsten-containing surface, the coefficient of friction drops to values below 0.05 after an induction period. The reason for the reduction in friction is due to tribo-chemical reactions that leads to the in-situ formation of a complex tribofilm that contains iron and tungsten components. X-ray photoelectron spectroscopy analyses indicate the presence of tungsten disulphide at the contact interface, thus justifying the low coefficient of friction achieved during the sliding experiments. It was proven that the low friction tribofilms can only be formed by the coexistence of tungsten and sulphur species, thus highlighting the synergy between diallyl disulphide and the tungsten-containing surface. The concept of functionalizing surfaces to react with specific additives opens up a wide range of possibilities, which allows tuning on-site surfaces to target additive interactions.

Diabolis

If you don't put any oil in it, it would run even cooler until it seizes. Seriously.

Regarding the tungsten-based friction modifiers in the oil, yes, there has been a fair bit of R&D recently in the filed of tribology using nano-particles (of which tungsten disulfide is one), but it is it not that different from molybdenium disulfide (MoS2) and other nano-particles. Here's a recent study If you're interested in reading a long technical document, but it is nothing revolutionary compared to what is currently in use: Tungsten disulfide nanoparticles as lubricant additives for the automotive industry

skratch77

Well I'll take there word for it as this is the same company that makes ceretec and mos2 additives.ecs did a video with there oil engineer and towards the end of the video they talked about molygen and he said this oil is a perfect oil that doesn't need any mos2 or ceretec etc.

Just passing my results with this stuff and looking at all the m156s that taso has taken apart we need a better oil in these.

My car had it's whole top end done at freaking 32k miles under warranty and I'm trying to keep it from getting damaged again as I'm out of warranty soon.

Diabolis

The biggest challenge from a tribological perspective is not whether nano-particles like WS2 and MoS2 reduce friction if properly applied to the surfaces in question (all friction surfaces of Formula 1 engines have been coated with nano-particles like WS2 for some time now). The challenge is how to get them to coexist with other additives in engine oil (namely detergents) that must be present in engine oils for cars used as daily drivers and often counteract the properties of the friction modifiers. About half of the studies show that the relationship is synergistic whereas the other half shows it is antagonistic -- so while a WS2 coating in a Formula 1 engine where the oil doesn't contain any detergents or antioxidants is indeed beneficial, the same cannot be conclusively said for regular car engines where the oil has a lot of detergents, dispersants and antioxidants.

BLKROKT

bhamg

From The Guardian a few years back:

The development of nanoparticles as engine oil additives is still an emerging field. None of the major oil companies is working on this, but research is under way and smaller manufacturers are starting to put nanotechnology to work.


For example the AddNano Project, funded by the European Commission, has been investigating the use of molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) nanoparticles in engine oil for widespread commercial use. Researchers are aiming to create a product that can be manufactured cost-effectively, on an industrial scale, and which avoids endangering the health of production workers or the release of harmful chemicals into the environment.


NanoMaterials produces a range of lubricants that incorporate nanoparticles of tungsten disulfide (WS2) shaped like the famous fullerene "buckyballs". The spherical particles act as miniature ball bearings inside the engine, smoothing rough surfaces and reducing friction and heat. They also form a protective layer on the engine’s metal surfaces that minimises abrasion. NanoMaterials claims that tests have shown their WS2 particles to have better lubrication properties and thermal stability than MoS2 – the more common choice of nano-lubricant.

Competitor Millers Oils is keeping quiet about future plans for its Nanodrive engine oil, which uses particles just 5 to 10 nanometres wide. So far, it has been focussing on products for the motorsport industry – an arena in which even the slightest engine improvement matters. The company claims that replacing conventional lubricant with Nanodrive oil in a Porsche 911 race engine produced an immediate power gain of 5.6%.

Technical director Martyn Mann says that Nanodrive “boosts power and torque because less energy is being wasted through friction. It’s the cheapest power increase you can get, leading to more competitive lap times.”

skratch77

Well that nano **** is in this oil lol ws2 or what ever you want to call it.

Diabolis

W is the chemical symbol for Tungsten (Wolfram). WS2 = Tungsten disulfide. MoS2 = Molybdenum disulfide.

And yes, Millers had been making racing oils with nano-tech for a while. I now run Millers Nanodrive in the C5Z track rat and the motor has held up remarkably well, but the oil does get changed after every 6-7 hours of abuse.

Gazwould

https://www.fastcar.co.uk/tuning/mil...anodrive-test/

kkkk

Has anyone in aus/nz tried Penrite HPR5 in the M156 engines? Theres a high Zn content which can only be good=justifyDensity at 15°C, kg/L0.857Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 40°C91Viscosity, Kinematic, cSt at 100°C14.4Viscosity Index167Cold Cranking Viscosity, cP at -30°C6400Zinc, Mass %0.124Phosphorus, Mass %0.113Sulphated Ash, Mass %1.28Total Base Number (TBN)10.4

Jasonoff

After market wet sump I take it?

Diabolis

Yes. It's a blueprinted Lingenfelter LS6 block with a custom oil pan with multiple pickup points, a high volume oil pump and an Accusump.

Jasonoff

You have any oil pressure data from long high G left turns?

Diabolis

LOL - sounds like you've been there! No quantitative data, but I have a large red oil pressure warning light connected to a separate sender that I can see in my peripheral vision at all times. It never used to light up on street tires or r-comps, but when I switched to full racing slicks it would flicker at the exit of turn 3 (right turn - not left) at Mosport. That's when the new oil pan went on... it is internally baffled and has this louvered windage tray covering the bottom that prevents the oil from sloshing around and pooling up during high G turns. Never seen the light come on since.

Savage-wp

Skratch77 are you still running the Molygen oil?
if yes, is your engine still running well.
Did you ever get an oil analysis done?

My car is out of warranty, and Im thinking about trying this oil.

skratch77

Yes I'm on my 3rd oil change with it and sticking with it. I have not done an analysis but dont really need to as the engine sounds and runs perfectly. Lifter tap and top end noise is about 75% less and i havnt heard cam adjusters chatter in months with it.

Jasonoff

You can hear when bearings and lifter surfaces wear slightly more than normal? That's essentially a super power!

In reality, you have absolutely no clue what's going on without an oil analysis. Quieter operation doesn't necessarily mean better protection.

skratch77

No my top end sounded like I needed new cams and lifters. My cam adjusters every 5 or so starts would rattle and that is all gone now.

I had 4k worth of parts in my cart before trying this oil. The oil.is doing everything they say it should and you can hear the engine has better protection.

I also have lower engine Temps and can drive my car for about 15 minutes and it won't hit 197. It will hover around 190 and 194.

Jasonoff

Doesn't matter what you say. No oil analysis means it's just your feelings. You can't detect nano/micro-sized wear particles being scraped off with your ears. It needs to be tested at a lab.

Are you afraid of the results? Is it a cost thing? I can send you an Amsoil test kit.

Savage-wp

Good to hear, thanks.

skratch77

here is what my car sounded like before Molygen

And here is how its sounds now and been sounding better since with zero cam adjuster rattle on starts. Car literally sound like a new engine.


I dont need an analysis to tell me my car sounds 100x better and my oil and coolant Temps are substantially lower and no cam adjuster rattle on every start hot or cold.

Jasonoff

I don't think you're grasping the concept of what everyone else in this thread who knows what they're talking about is trying telling you. I give up...

sventastic82

Just a stupid question, because I’m not an oil expert.
Is the viscosity of 0W40 vs 5w40 not the same at operating temp?

BTW liqui moly molygen is not MB approved at least not on 229.5

skratch77

And I give up on how your not grasping the concept that my valve train cams,lifters adjusters are not making tapping noises anymore running molygen.

Do you need an oil analysis to hear the difference in my videos?

What analysis do you need? Molygen is basically liqui moly high tech with ceretec added to it.

skratch77

Yes but 0w30 is 229.5 approved. Would you run that in your m156?