Airbag recall: Anybody done yet? in US.
12-24-2019, 07:30 PM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
No - I am just saying that everything needs to be taken in context. The whole Takata airbag issue has indeed been blown way out of proportion. Yes, they may be faulty, and yes, they should be replaced, but the possibility of someone getting a faceful of shrapnel as a result of a faulty inflator is so remote that it is negligible compared to other everyday activities that are 1000 times more likely to injure or kill you. It needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
It had absolutely nothing to do with chance/odds of it happening. There's "hopefully" a zero percent chance of face shrapnel during deployment with a new airbag. Dem odds are better right.. so why not do the swap instead of chancing it? Or is the vehicle too old and not worthy?
12-24-2019, 09:19 PM
#52
Air Bag Replaced
I got a letter from MB about 6 months ago. Contacted dealer and they quickly replaced the driver's air bag. I was surprised the replacement included the plastic center with the buttons.
12-24-2019, 11:58 PM
#53
MBWorld Fanatic!
oh yea got the party started! I never said anything about abuse. How does one even abuse an airbag. My point of the message was to say if you're going to recall **** to fix, have it fixed right. It's sad to see how top tier brands are handling things like this. Everything is so blown out of proportions to cause hype and hysteria. Who's to say these people didn't have bull**** attached to their steering wheels or dash boards, i see this all the time. Stickers, photos, glued on trinquets, you name it they will glue it on their steering wheel or dash or hang it. You can die millions of different ways you have no control over. Don't sweat the small stuff guys. There's no replacement for driver training, and a well maintained car.
When is brake plus, oriellys, autozone etc.... going to have a recall for causing deaths. They sell subpar inferior brake pads that vastly increase stopping distances exponentially to unsafe conditions and then offer a lifetime warranty on them. Where do you draw the line? They may not be on your car but they are on the battering ram coming for you and your family.
When is brake plus, oriellys, autozone etc.... going to have a recall for causing deaths. They sell subpar inferior brake pads that vastly increase stopping distances exponentially to unsafe conditions and then offer a lifetime warranty on them. Where do you draw the line? They may not be on your car but they are on the battering ram coming for you and your family.
12-25-2019, 11:48 AM
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Diabolis
... the likelihood of which is about the same as you winning the lotto 6/49 jackpot 3 times in a row. While there have been a total of 24 deaths worldwide from defective Takata airbag inflators (and some 240 injuries) in total, there are ~800 deaths a year in the US alone from people getting tangled in their bed sheets. Extrapolating that to 10 years, do you still use bed sheets seeing as you're 40 times more likely to die from your bed sheets suffocating you than get a few scratches on your face from a Takata airbag (and 400 times more likely to die from bed sheet strangulation than a faulty Takata air bag)? You'd change your tune too if you find yourself gasping for air in the middle of the night with a bedsheet over your face or around your neck.
Let's start over again:
So you found 240 injuries and 24 deaths in the statistics you looked at.
Out of how many deployments?
And please notice that I did not use the word accidents.
You know what I think will happen as you will rush to find this number?
You won't find it. Because it's not so improbable at all.
The only dumbed down number available is that "airbags have saved lives 8600 times between 1987-2001". If we admit that this is synonymous with deployments, even if you think that say in the survey range of the Takata story (3 years or what?) there are now much more airbags in cars and therefore deployments a year, then you get 264 out of what, maybe 10,000 deployments (more airbags so more deployments)? So 2.5%?, 2.5 out of 100?. Not that remote, not really.
So forget about bedsheets, has nothing to to with that statistic.
Last edited by Vladds; 12-25-2019 at 11:53 AM.
12-25-2019, 02:19 PM
#55
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I think that the probability is calculated wrong in your narrative.
Let's start over again:
So you found 240 injuries and 24 deaths in the statistics you looked at.
Out of how many deployments?
And please notice that I did not use the word accidents.
You know what I think will happen as you will rush to find this number?
You won't find it. Because it's not so improbable at all.
The only dumbed down number available is that "airbags have saved lives 8600 times between 1987-2001". If we admit that this is synonymous with deployments, even if you think that say in the survey range of the Takata story (3 years or what?) there are now much more airbags in cars and therefore deployments a year, then you get 264 out of what, maybe 10,000 deployments (more airbags so more deployments)? So 2.5%?, 2.5 out of 100?. Not that remote, not really.
So forget about bedsheets, has nothing to to with that statistic.
Let's start over again:
So you found 240 injuries and 24 deaths in the statistics you looked at.
Out of how many deployments?
And please notice that I did not use the word accidents.
You know what I think will happen as you will rush to find this number?
You won't find it. Because it's not so improbable at all.
The only dumbed down number available is that "airbags have saved lives 8600 times between 1987-2001". If we admit that this is synonymous with deployments, even if you think that say in the survey range of the Takata story (3 years or what?) there are now much more airbags in cars and therefore deployments a year, then you get 264 out of what, maybe 10,000 deployments (more airbags so more deployments)? So 2.5%?, 2.5 out of 100?. Not that remote, not really.
So forget about bedsheets, has nothing to to with that statistic.
There have been 24 deaths and about 240 injuries attributable to faulty Takata inflators worldwide (https://www.newsomelaw.com/faqs/how-...akata-airbags/). The number of deployments itself is irrelevant as far as probability of injury goes, in the same way that the number of shots fired is irrelevant when calculating the injury or death rate caused by gun violence - they are calculated per capita.
The rest of your argument is completely false as the number of lives saved is most certainly NOT the same as number of airbags deployed -- airbags deploy in moderate to severe collisions, which are defined as "crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher)".
As for the dumbed down numbers, the NHTSA says that frontal airbags have saved 50,457 lives from 1987 to 2017 in the US alone (https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/air-bags). Now, in 2017, there were 272.48 million vehicles registered in the US alone. Worldwide that number is currently estimated to be 1.3 billion (1 billion was exceeded in 2010, 1.2 billion exceeded in 2014 - https://www.greencarreports.com/news...by-2035-report). Even going by your extremely flawed logic, if 50,000 lives have been saved in the US and the US has 1/5th of the world's cars, then worldwide that number is 5 times higher - so around 250,000 lives saved worldwide. That's still 10,000 lives saved by frontal airbags for every life lost due to a faulty inflator. Or if you;ld like another statistic, NHTSA data also shows that there were 175 deaths caused by airbag deployment in the US (104 of which were children) out of some 3.3 million airbags deployments between 1990 and 2000. That is 1 death per 19,000 deployments, or seeing as you like percentages, 0.0052631578947368%. So yeah, using bed sheets is a LOT more dangerous as they have claimed 8,000 lives in the US during that same ten year period vs. the 175 claimed by airbags (this is air bags in general, not faulty Takata inflators).
I'd respectfully suggest that you check your logic, math and sources instead.
Happy holidays!
12-25-2019, 03:27 PM
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Let's try this again.
ONLY deployments matter, why is this so hard to understand.
People want to know if when an airbag deploys it's going to save or hurt them.
The rest is irrelevant.
We are discussing here the probability of becoming a victim of a defective deployment. Accidents are the background group here. There is no flaw in this logic.
With this said: I find it hilarious that no statistic of airbag deployment is available but only the "lives saved" numbers.
BTW the lives saved number varies per source.
Now let me ask you something:
Number of deployments equals number of lives saved plus number of lives not saved, right?
I mean this is the data that is available. Lives not saved is not that big of a number so as an approximation we can take deployments as lives saved.
If you have an official (not your opinion) definition of lives saved, please post it.
Other than that I think that even the low impact deployments can still be qualified as life saving.
NHTSA as an acronym, when disambiguated means NATIONAL highway etc
So the numbers are national.
So there is no need to count vehicles worldwide and compare proportions with the US.
There were 50 k deployments in the US in how many years? 20.
Of course this is a progression as the number of air bags increased.
So the question becomes:
We know that in the last 3 years when Takata was under scrutiny 264 deaths and injuries occurred, I'm saying nationally (there are articles that have these numbers as national).
How many deployment were there in the last 3 years, nationally? 10000 per year or 100 000 per year.
I used lives saved to determine this number.
we have exact death and injury numbers for Takata. Once the deployment number becomes clear the percentage is obvious.
Now, if you found a NHTSA statistic that actually used the word deployment and compares it with injuries and fatalities, ok then post the link, I have not found it.
Happy Holidays !
ONLY deployments matter, why is this so hard to understand.
People want to know if when an airbag deploys it's going to save or hurt them.
The rest is irrelevant.
We are discussing here the probability of becoming a victim of a defective deployment. Accidents are the background group here. There is no flaw in this logic.
With this said: I find it hilarious that no statistic of airbag deployment is available but only the "lives saved" numbers.
BTW the lives saved number varies per source.
Now let me ask you something:
Number of deployments equals number of lives saved plus number of lives not saved, right?
I mean this is the data that is available. Lives not saved is not that big of a number so as an approximation we can take deployments as lives saved.
If you have an official (not your opinion) definition of lives saved, please post it.
Other than that I think that even the low impact deployments can still be qualified as life saving.
NHTSA as an acronym, when disambiguated means NATIONAL highway etc
So the numbers are national.
So there is no need to count vehicles worldwide and compare proportions with the US.
There were 50 k deployments in the US in how many years? 20.
Of course this is a progression as the number of air bags increased.
So the question becomes:
We know that in the last 3 years when Takata was under scrutiny 264 deaths and injuries occurred, I'm saying nationally (there are articles that have these numbers as national).
How many deployment were there in the last 3 years, nationally? 10000 per year or 100 000 per year.
I used lives saved to determine this number.
we have exact death and injury numbers for Takata. Once the deployment number becomes clear the percentage is obvious.
Now, if you found a NHTSA statistic that actually used the word deployment and compares it with injuries and fatalities, ok then post the link, I have not found it.
Happy Holidays !
Last edited by Vladds; 12-25-2019 at 05:53 PM.
12-25-2019, 08:11 PM
#57
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Let's try this again.
ONLY deployments matter, why is this so hard to understand.
People want to know if when an airbag deploys it's going to save or hurt them.
The rest is irrelevant.
We are discussing here the probability of becoming a victim of a defective deployment. Accidents are the background group here. There is no flaw in this logic.
With this said: I find it hilarious that no statistic of airbag deployment is available but only the "lives saved" numbers.
BTW the lives saved number varies per source.
Now let me ask you something:
Number of deployments equals number of lives saved plus number of lives not saved, right?
I mean this is the data that is available. Lives not saved is not that big of a number so as an approximation we can take deployments as lives saved.
If you have an official (not your opinion) definition of lives saved, please post it.
Other than that I think that even the low impact deployments can still be qualified as life saving.
NHTSA as an acronym, when disambiguated means NATIONAL highway etc
So the numbers are national.
So there is no need to count vehicles worldwide and compare proportions with the US.
There were 50 k deployments in the US in how many years? 20.
Of course this is a progression as the number of air bags increased.
So the question becomes:
We know that in the last 3 years when Takata was under scrutiny 264 deaths and injuries occurred, I'm saying nationally (there are articles that have these numbers as national).
How many deployment were there in the last 3 years, nationally? 10000 per year or 100 000 per year.
I used lives saved to determine this number.
we have exact death and injury numbers for Takata. Once the deployment number becomes clear the percentage is obvious.
Now, if you found a NHTSA statistic that actually used the word deployment and compares it with injuries and fatalities, ok then post the link, I have not found it.
Happy Holidays !
ONLY deployments matter, why is this so hard to understand.
People want to know if when an airbag deploys it's going to save or hurt them.
The rest is irrelevant.
We are discussing here the probability of becoming a victim of a defective deployment. Accidents are the background group here. There is no flaw in this logic.
With this said: I find it hilarious that no statistic of airbag deployment is available but only the "lives saved" numbers.
BTW the lives saved number varies per source.
Now let me ask you something:
Number of deployments equals number of lives saved plus number of lives not saved, right?
I mean this is the data that is available. Lives not saved is not that big of a number so as an approximation we can take deployments as lives saved.
If you have an official (not your opinion) definition of lives saved, please post it.
Other than that I think that even the low impact deployments can still be qualified as life saving.
NHTSA as an acronym, when disambiguated means NATIONAL highway etc
So the numbers are national.
So there is no need to count vehicles worldwide and compare proportions with the US.
There were 50 k deployments in the US in how many years? 20.
Of course this is a progression as the number of air bags increased.
So the question becomes:
We know that in the last 3 years when Takata was under scrutiny 264 deaths and injuries occurred, I'm saying nationally (there are articles that have these numbers as national).
How many deployment were there in the last 3 years, nationally? 10000 per year or 100 000 per year.
I used lives saved to determine this number.
we have exact death and injury numbers for Takata. Once the deployment number becomes clear the percentage is obvious.
Now, if you found a NHTSA statistic that actually used the word deployment and compares it with injuries and fatalities, ok then post the link, I have not found it.
Happy Holidays !
"NHTSA data also shows that there were 175 deaths caused by airbag deployment in the US (104 of which were children) out of some 3.3 million airbags deployments between 1990 and 2000. That is 1 death per 19,000 deployments, or seeing as you like percentages, 0.0052631578947368%." That is 3.3 million deployments, with 175 deaths attributable to the air bags during a 10 year period between 1990 and 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag...ity_statistics, footnote 117 if you're actually interested). And, those deployments are during a time where airbags were still nonexistent ion low-end cars or common on mid-range vehicles, and they were nor nearly as evolved as they are today. Today every car has 8-12 airbags in it.
And no, number of deployments DOES NOT EQUAL number of lives saved plus number of lives not saved. The vast majority of collisions where the airbags deploy would not have been fatal even without the airbags, so that is not a "life saved". The vehicle occupants could have possibly sustained more (or more severe) injuries, but the crash would not have been fatal to begin with. It's just another fallacy in your argument.
The HNTSA query tool is at https://cdan.dot.gov/query. The are now over 6 million moderate to severe collisions (where the airbags deploy) in the US EVERY YEAR. That's AT LEAST 36 million airbag deployments in the US since 2014 (the time of the first Takata faulty airbag related death), resulting in 16 deaths in the US. The NHTSA query tool is at https://cdan.dot.gov/query. Do you still want to talk about odds?
