MBH Headers - Gains and Issues
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
Ok thanks!
I didn't know it would be this hard to add power and keep the signature AMG sound everyone loves about these V8s. I have never cared about the actual loudness, my goal was to just keep the sound the same at any loudness level.
I need to make some videos but I would say this is what my car sounds like, which a select few will like but Im not trying to gain attention.
I didn't know it would be this hard to add power and keep the signature AMG sound everyone loves about these V8s. I have never cared about the actual loudness, my goal was to just keep the sound the same at any loudness level.
I need to make some videos but I would say this is what my car sounds like, which a select few will like but Im not trying to gain attention.
Last edited by dmd-amg-c63; Mar 2, 2019 at 03:49 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 38
From: Seattle
2008 Mercedes Benz E63
My E63 with MBH long tubes, 200 cell cats, straight pipe to factory muffler (no X or H), ROW boxes, and Eurocharged tuned made 430 whp.
A bone stock CLS63 made 405 whp on the same dyno on the same day. That was frustrating to say the least. I thought I may have had an issue with my tune file not loading, but Jerry stated it was the Tri Y design of the headers and not a tune issue. At that point I threw in the towel on trying to make power NA and supercharged it. My car still did not make a ton of power on the dyno, but I am happy with the 126 mph trap speed.
Also if you straight pipe the car to the stock mufflers with long tubes it is RIDICULOUSLY loud at wide open throttle. I liked that at first but it will get everyone's attention and I got tired of that. It crackled on decel like a race car and the cold start would make people cover their ears. When I had an X pipe made, it made me feel like I had returned the car to stock sound wise. I miss the loudness at times, but overall am happy with the X.
A bone stock CLS63 made 405 whp on the same dyno on the same day. That was frustrating to say the least. I thought I may have had an issue with my tune file not loading, but Jerry stated it was the Tri Y design of the headers and not a tune issue. At that point I threw in the towel on trying to make power NA and supercharged it. My car still did not make a ton of power on the dyno, but I am happy with the 126 mph trap speed.
Also if you straight pipe the car to the stock mufflers with long tubes it is RIDICULOUSLY loud at wide open throttle. I liked that at first but it will get everyone's attention and I got tired of that. It crackled on decel like a race car and the cold start would make people cover their ears. When I had an X pipe made, it made me feel like I had returned the car to stock sound wise. I miss the loudness at times, but overall am happy with the X.
Last edited by layzie12g; Mar 3, 2019 at 12:32 PM.
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Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,305
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From: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
C63, SL55, E55, CLS55, ML63, C55
It not the tri-design we are consistantly making 475 to 485 wheel horsepower on a Dyno Dynamics dyno with our header and tune. Our headers are also on the fastest most powerfully m156 cars. Our headers never change they are always the same. It's not like someone get a header set from us and the primary tubes are different from the some esle who has our headers. Factors that can effect your numbers are dyno data input, temp, correction factor, the gas you run,
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 38
From: Seattle
2008 Mercedes Benz E63
MBH I know that. I was restating what I was told by the person who supplied the tune on my car. This was probably 4 or 5 years ago as well. The inconsistent horsepower gains of these cars still has me at a bit of a loss. I understand 430 on a Dyno Dynamics would be around 480 Dyno Jet but cars with similar modifications on the same dyno are producing quite different power. Trap speeds will always be the best calculator for horsepower in my opinion.
The quality of the MBH headers speak for themselves and I do not think anyone has ever doubted that. The frustration comes from spending thousands of dollars and seeing minimal gains.
The quality of the MBH headers speak for themselves and I do not think anyone has ever doubted that. The frustration comes from spending thousands of dollars and seeing minimal gains.
Last edited by layzie12g; Mar 4, 2019 at 05:35 PM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
MBH I know that. I was restating what I was told by the person who supplied the tune on my car. This was probably 4 or 5 years ago as well. The inconsistent horsepower gains of these cars still has me at a bit of a loss. I understand 430 on a Dyno Dynamics would be around 480 Dyno Jet but cars with similar modifications on the same dyno are producing quite different power. Trap speeds will always be the best calculator for horsepower in my opinion.
The quality of the MBH headers speak for themselves and I do not think anyone has ever doubted that. The frustration comes from spending thousands of dollars and seeing minimal gains.
The quality of the MBH headers speak for themselves and I do not think anyone has ever doubted that. The frustration comes from spending thousands of dollars and seeing minimal gains.
From what im discovering, the gains are definitely not worth the $3k price tag and $1,000 install cost.
It it seems like the consensus (not everyone obviously) across this forum and multiple others removing the resonator and secondary will produce the most bang for your buck performance wise, still be stock sounding at lower rpms and will rip at wot, all while keeping the beautiful deep amg signature sound, just louder.
Last edited by dmd-amg-c63; Mar 8, 2019 at 09:59 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,074
Likes: 2,867
From: Los Angeles
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Well, that’s your opinion man. And one that’s not really supported by facts.
I’ve seen a secondary cat delete C63 trap 119mph. That’s pretty good. But there’s a reason why the fastest NA and supercharged cars all have headers.
At a light state of mod - standard off the shelf tune, ROW boxes - you’re not going to see much difference between a headers car and one with a secondary delete. But as you continue to increase flow and efficiency on the intake side, the stock exhaust manifolds start to become the limiting factor. It’s a fact.
And you’re not going to extract the full benefit from headers without a custom tune and adjusting the VVT, which is where you’ll be able to start pushing much more air through than with just a sec cat delete.
I’ve seen a secondary cat delete C63 trap 119mph. That’s pretty good. But there’s a reason why the fastest NA and supercharged cars all have headers.
At a light state of mod - standard off the shelf tune, ROW boxes - you’re not going to see much difference between a headers car and one with a secondary delete. But as you continue to increase flow and efficiency on the intake side, the stock exhaust manifolds start to become the limiting factor. It’s a fact.
And you’re not going to extract the full benefit from headers without a custom tune and adjusting the VVT, which is where you’ll be able to start pushing much more air through than with just a sec cat delete.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
Well, that’s your opinion man. And one that’s not really supported by facts.
I’ve seen a secondary cat delete C63 trap 119mph. That’s pretty good. But there’s a reason why the fastest NA and supercharged cars all have headers.
At a light state of mod - standard off the shelf tune, ROW boxes - you’re not going to see much difference between a headers car and one with a secondary delete. But as you continue to increase flow and efficiency on the intake side, the stock exhaust manifolds start to become the limiting factor. It’s a fact.
And you’re not going to extract the full benefit from headers without a custom tune and adjusting the VVT, which is where you’ll be able to start pushing much more air through than with just a sec cat delete.
I’ve seen a secondary cat delete C63 trap 119mph. That’s pretty good. But there’s a reason why the fastest NA and supercharged cars all have headers.
At a light state of mod - standard off the shelf tune, ROW boxes - you’re not going to see much difference between a headers car and one with a secondary delete. But as you continue to increase flow and efficiency on the intake side, the stock exhaust manifolds start to become the limiting factor. It’s a fact.
And you’re not going to extract the full benefit from headers without a custom tune and adjusting the VVT, which is where you’ll be able to start pushing much more air through than with just a sec cat delete.
We tried one one last time on the dyno and took off the intake, then placed a commercial drying fan directly in front. This added 20 hp but the fact remained that in total, I only gained 7-10 total hp and zero ft lbs from adding mbh headers, hiflow cats, x pipe and mid-section. Like I said, all these gains from others of 90-110 hp seem to be 95% tune and that’s where your $$ should go unless you have endless funds and are going to supercharge it.
I really have to give credit to Jerry for spending so much time with me doing the remote tune. Although the gains from adding the new exhaust components were disappointing, the updated Custom V7 tune definitely made the car more responsive, gave it smoother shifts and all around fell better and even added a few hp.
If I could go back, I would’ve skipped upgrading the exhaust and left it just as it was with the resonator delete and secondary cats removed and then had Jerry do a custom V7 tune.
I know it could be a lot of things/factors/altitude/etc and I plan to go run the quarter mile (at altitude) to see what my trap time is but for the money, in my opinion, it just wasn’t worth it. The sound and tone have lost that amg growl and now I feel like I’m driving a “look at me car”. I may try one last option and install an h-pipe to get the sound back but I’m sure I will lose those 7-10 hp.
Again, this is my individual experience and opinions...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 147
2012 c63 AMG, 2011 GLK 350, 2019 GLS 450
Finally was able to get some custom tuning from eurocharged and...only gained ONE hp after two hours of going back and forth.
We tried one one last time on the dyno and took off the intake, then placed a commercial drying fan directly in front. This added 20 hp but the fact remained that in total, I only gained 7-10 total hp and zero ft lbs from adding mbh headers, hiflow cats, x pipe and mid-section. Like I said, all these gains from others of 90-110 hp seem to be 95% tune and that’s where your $$ should go unless you have endless funds and are going to supercharge it.
I really have to give credit to Jerry for spending so much time with me doing the remote tune. Although the gains from adding the new exhaust components were disappointing, the updated Custom V7 tune definitely made the car more responsive, gave it smoother shifts and all around fell better and even added a few hp.
If I could go back, I would’ve skipped upgrading the exhaust and left it just as it was with the resonator delete and secondary cats removed and then had Jerry do a custom V7 tune.
I know it could be a lot of things/factors/altitude/etc and I plan to go run the quarter mile (at altitude) to see what my trap time is but for the money, in my opinion, it just wasn’t worth it. The sound and tone have lost that amg growl and now I feel like I’m driving a “look at me car”. I may try one last option and install an h-pipe to get the sound back but I’m sure I will lose those 7-10 hp.
Again, this is my individual experience and opinions...
We tried one one last time on the dyno and took off the intake, then placed a commercial drying fan directly in front. This added 20 hp but the fact remained that in total, I only gained 7-10 total hp and zero ft lbs from adding mbh headers, hiflow cats, x pipe and mid-section. Like I said, all these gains from others of 90-110 hp seem to be 95% tune and that’s where your $$ should go unless you have endless funds and are going to supercharge it.
I really have to give credit to Jerry for spending so much time with me doing the remote tune. Although the gains from adding the new exhaust components were disappointing, the updated Custom V7 tune definitely made the car more responsive, gave it smoother shifts and all around fell better and even added a few hp.
If I could go back, I would’ve skipped upgrading the exhaust and left it just as it was with the resonator delete and secondary cats removed and then had Jerry do a custom V7 tune.
I know it could be a lot of things/factors/altitude/etc and I plan to go run the quarter mile (at altitude) to see what my trap time is but for the money, in my opinion, it just wasn’t worth it. The sound and tone have lost that amg growl and now I feel like I’m driving a “look at me car”. I may try one last option and install an h-pipe to get the sound back but I’m sure I will lose those 7-10 hp.
Again, this is my individual experience and opinions...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,074
Likes: 2,867
From: Los Angeles
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
^ Obviously. It’s not like the laws of math and physics work on everyone’s car but this guy. 
But if he insists on blaming the headers, have at it. One more cheap used set for someone else to enjoy.
But if he insists on blaming the headers, have at it. One more cheap used set for someone else to enjoy.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
Thank you everyone else for the solid advice and suggestions, I will keep at it!
Last edited by dmd-amg-c63; Mar 14, 2019 at 04:36 PM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
I have a kleemam shop about 30 min away so I may go in and talk to them too.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,074
Likes: 2,867
From: Los Angeles
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
How about you fix your broken-aśś car instead of saying “headerz suk” and blaming everything on that. Oh wait, of course, you’re the only person in the history of car modding to ever lose power with headers, sorry.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 853
Likes: 126
From: Cape Town
2014 Mercedes C63 AMG 507 Edition
I am running IPE headers, with IPE straight pipes to the stock resonator.
My car makes great power and sounds amazing. Before the headers, I was running with primary and secondary cats deleted and tune. I picked up good power going to the headers.
I just did a half mile event this weekend and ran 237.6km/h
At the same event a stock Porsche GT3RS ran 242 and a stock Lamborghini Huracan ran 244.
I'm pretty happy with my speeds.
I think a Eurocharged Flex Fuel kit should get me to 240.
My car makes great power and sounds amazing. Before the headers, I was running with primary and secondary cats deleted and tune. I picked up good power going to the headers.
I just did a half mile event this weekend and ran 237.6km/h
At the same event a stock Porsche GT3RS ran 242 and a stock Lamborghini Huracan ran 244.
I'm pretty happy with my speeds.
I think a Eurocharged Flex Fuel kit should get me to 240.
