MBH Headers - Gains and Issues
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
MBH Headers - Gains and Issues
I know there are a ton of threads on headers but here is my issues, TWO PARTS and keep in mind im in denver (5280' above sea level
PART ONE: I bought a 2012 c63 amg coupe with P31, resonator delete with eurocharged V5 tune. The car ran absolutely amazing but I just wanted a few more ponies so I purchased and installed MBH headers, x-pipe, midsection, and GESI cats along with the header V7 tune from eurocharged for high altitude (colorado version).
Got the car back and the shop gave me the baseline dyno and upgraded dyno. Numbers were before 368hp / 371ftlb, and after (with new mbh stuff and header tune), 377hp / 369ftlb. Obviously something is off and have talked to Jerry about getting a custom tune but I thought I would see what people thought on here.
PART TWO: The MBH headers have completely lost that AMG signature V8 growl. It now sounds more tuned, sportier and higher-pitched. I absolutely hate it so is there a way to get the signature AMG sound back while still keeping the headers.
If I cant get the HP up and the torque up, I definitely will be going back to the original setup...
Thanks
PART ONE: I bought a 2012 c63 amg coupe with P31, resonator delete with eurocharged V5 tune. The car ran absolutely amazing but I just wanted a few more ponies so I purchased and installed MBH headers, x-pipe, midsection, and GESI cats along with the header V7 tune from eurocharged for high altitude (colorado version).
Got the car back and the shop gave me the baseline dyno and upgraded dyno. Numbers were before 368hp / 371ftlb, and after (with new mbh stuff and header tune), 377hp / 369ftlb. Obviously something is off and have talked to Jerry about getting a custom tune but I thought I would see what people thought on here.
PART TWO: The MBH headers have completely lost that AMG signature V8 growl. It now sounds more tuned, sportier and higher-pitched. I absolutely hate it so is there a way to get the signature AMG sound back while still keeping the headers.
If I cant get the HP up and the torque up, I definitely will be going back to the original setup...
Thanks
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,276
Likes: 409
C63 AMG
Answer to Part 2.
Add Eisenmann Race Exhaust system to get the signature AMG sound back with the LTH's or Akra Slip ons for a deeper more refined growl.
Answer to Part 1.
Yes those numbers are super low for the bolt ons you have. Altitude factored in, your still about 100 WHP / TQ down on most W204's with the same mods.
Add Eisenmann Race Exhaust system to get the signature AMG sound back with the LTH's or Akra Slip ons for a deeper more refined growl.
Answer to Part 1.
Yes those numbers are super low for the bolt ons you have. Altitude factored in, your still about 100 WHP / TQ down on most W204's with the same mods.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 98
From: Montreal, QC
E55 AMG & C63 AMG
At the moment I'm running:
It's civilized when driving normally, with a little more throatiness.. But a complete animal when you get on it. It's a little raspy for my taste, so might add an H-Pipe I have laying around right before the resonators.
- FI headers
- FI 3'' midpipes
- CLS63 resonators
- OEM mufflers
It's civilized when driving normally, with a little more throatiness.. But a complete animal when you get on it. It's a little raspy for my taste, so might add an H-Pipe I have laying around right before the resonators.
Last edited by MTV10; Mar 1, 2019 at 07:03 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 152
From: 'Merica
'04 E55 (Gone but not forgotten), '13 C63 P31 (RIP), another '13 C63 PP
At the moment I'm running:
It's civilized when driving normally, with a little more throatiness.. But a complete animal when you get on it. It's a little raspy for my taste, so might add an H-Pipe I have laying around right before the resonators.
- FI headers
- FI 3'' midpipes
- CLS63 resonators
- OEM mufflers
It's civilized when driving normally, with a little more throatiness.. But a complete animal when you get on it. It's a little raspy for my taste, so might add an H-Pipe I have laying around right before the resonators.
What does the X-pipe change about the sound that everyone seems to hate? Most of these exhausts are so loud the blow out every camera microphone so videos don't really let you hear them on video very well.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
Yeah, I’m in the same boat that I wanted to go back to my old setup right when I picked it up especially if I only gained 7 hp and lost a few torques. It would be tolerable if I gained 20-40 as advertised but 7, come on!
Thats the main issue, has anyone actually done dyno tests for a stock p31 c63 with resonator and secondary cat delete compared to headers, resonator delete, secondary cat delete and x-pipe? Every site for the headers claims 90-120hp gains with a tube but how much of that is the tune. Eurocharged gets you 90hp alone
i honestly would’ve never bought them for $3k, paid $1k for install to only gain 7 hp and LOSE torque.
I guess the next step is to see if a custom tune by jerry at eurocharged will help the issue but honestly, if it still sounds like same, going back and selling the entire setup.
Trying not to drop money on more parts, especially akrapovic, I may try the h-pipe by mikes exhaust too, thank you for that suggestion. Isn’t the OEM exhaust Eisenmann already?
Thats the main issue, has anyone actually done dyno tests for a stock p31 c63 with resonator and secondary cat delete compared to headers, resonator delete, secondary cat delete and x-pipe? Every site for the headers claims 90-120hp gains with a tube but how much of that is the tune. Eurocharged gets you 90hp alone
i honestly would’ve never bought them for $3k, paid $1k for install to only gain 7 hp and LOSE torque.
I guess the next step is to see if a custom tune by jerry at eurocharged will help the issue but honestly, if it still sounds like same, going back and selling the entire setup.
Trying not to drop money on more parts, especially akrapovic, I may try the h-pipe by mikes exhaust too, thank you for that suggestion. Isn’t the OEM exhaust Eisenmann already?
Last edited by dmd-amg-c63; Mar 1, 2019 at 11:29 PM.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
And yes it’s low compared to other at this altitude but those are uncorrected. I know there can be drama with people correcting their numbers.
Point is is I did a baseline with three runs and then 3 runs after, max gain was 7 hp, loss of 3 ft lb.
And it sounds worse!!!! Imo
Point is is I did a baseline with three runs and then 3 runs after, max gain was 7 hp, loss of 3 ft lb.
And it sounds worse!!!! Imo
Last edited by dmd-amg-c63; Mar 1, 2019 at 11:39 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 147
2012 c63 AMG, 2011 GLK 350, 2019 GLS 450
I have the same setup minus the cats. Night and day difference power wise. I gained 40 to the wheels. With no other changes. Regardless of your altitude you should notice the difference. The sound I personally love it’s absurd. Iv literally had people scream while Reving at cars and coffee cause I can get it to sound like gun shots with the pops. As far as the h pipe. There is an h pipe on the stock resonators would be double doing it. The x pipe smoothed out the exhaust note and actually takes the sound down. The only way to truly change the sound from a higher pitchy sound of headers is to change the catback section. I personally love how it sounds.
Last edited by AMGonFire; Mar 2, 2019 at 12:27 AM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
I have the same setup minus the cats. Night and day difference power wise. I gained 40 to the wheels. With no other changes. Regardless of your altitude you should notice the difference. The sound I personally love it’s absurd. Iv literally had people scream while Reving at cars and coffee cause I can get it to sound like gun shots with the pops. As far as the h pipe. There is an h pipe on the stock resonators would be double doing it. The x pipe smoothed out the exhaust note and actually takes the sound down. The only way to truly change the sound from a higher pitchy sound of headers is to change the catback section. I personally love how it sounds.
So you think those cats are the cause of me losing so much power? I was told I would lose 5, maybe 8 hp at most but I hope it’s not responsible for losing out on 33 hp
but again, I went from a stock exhaust WITH the stock cats but with the resonator delete and secondary cats deleted so I would think just adding the headers would’ve gained a lot more.
I’ve been searching for some data on the actual increase from a header replacement only
Last edited by dmd-amg-c63; Mar 2, 2019 at 01:35 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 147
2012 c63 AMG, 2011 GLK 350, 2019 GLS 450
i bought 200 cel GEsi hiflow cats, was told by multiple shops these are the best cats on the market since I need them for Colorado (won’t pass emissions without them).
So you think those cats are the cause of me losing so much power? I was told I would lose 5, maybe 8 hp at most but I hope it’s not responsible for losing out on 33 hp
but again, I went from a stock exhaust WITH the stock cats but with the resonator delete and secondary cats deleted so I would think just adding the headers would’ve gained a lot more.
I’ve been searching for some data on the actual increase from a header replacement only
So you think those cats are the cause of me losing so much power? I was told I would lose 5, maybe 8 hp at most but I hope it’s not responsible for losing out on 33 hp
but again, I went from a stock exhaust WITH the stock cats but with the resonator delete and secondary cats deleted so I would think just adding the headers would’ve gained a lot more.
I’ve been searching for some data on the actual increase from a header replacement only
as far as sound goes part of your problem is you took out the stock resonator. Put it back in. If you don’t like the sound after that you can straight pipe the x pipe portion. Start with that. As far as power, was the second dyno done on the same day same dyno? If not that’s part of your issue. Also this Colorado tune not sure what that means but I think your best bet is a dyno tune from Jerry. With your elevation and such will be your best bet. The cats will cause you to lose power but not as much as that unless they are clogged or there is a defect. I’m not familiar with the brand but even still they shouldn’t rob as much power as your saying.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,768
Likes: 419
'10 C63
How old are your O2 sensors. When I swapped to catless headers, I forgot to include new sensors so the shop reused the old ones. Compared to tune only, I picked up like 10 whp. With new O2 sensors, my gains were 23 whp over my tune only runs. Also, from what I have read, the EC tune for headers is pretty rich. Their “tune only” file is supposedly much more dialed in. I cannot verify as I didn’t monitor AFR
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
Dyno was same dyno, similar weather but different days. The resonator and second cats were deleted prior to my purchase. I loved the sound before but with the headers, not so much. So you’re saying leave the headers on and try putting the resonator back on? I’ll try to find a video with that setup
The tune is from Jerry at eurocharged. And yes, the charts have the afr fairly rich at around 17 max but it’s the afr numbers are pretty similar across all dyno runs (before and after)
im not throwing any codes so I believe the O2 sensors are good, their only a few years old and no issues.
The tune is from Jerry at eurocharged. And yes, the charts have the afr fairly rich at around 17 max but it’s the afr numbers are pretty similar across all dyno runs (before and after)
im not throwing any codes so I believe the O2 sensors are good, their only a few years old and no issues.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,697
Likes: 381
2005 E55
Headers for me only picked up 20whp on base header oe tuning file. All those posts of crazy gains are complete bs. Every dyno reads different but for me I was making 442 whp with p31 on row boxes and pro dry filters.
After doing fi headers,300 cell high flow cats and remus exh on base header file I made 460 whp.
On race map and 82mm TB and ms109 fuel I made 479whp on MY dyno and trapped 121.
I'll post the before and after dyno for you.
After doing fi headers,300 cell high flow cats and remus exh on base header file I made 460 whp.
On race map and 82mm TB and ms109 fuel I made 479whp on MY dyno and trapped 121.
I'll post the before and after dyno for you.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
Headers for me only picked up 20whp on base header oe tuning file. All those posts of crazy gains are complete bs. Every dyno reads different but for me I was making 442 whp with p31 on row boxes and pro dry filters.
After doing fi headers,300 cell high flow cats and remus exh on base header file I made 460 whp.
On race map and 82mm TB and ms109 fuel I made 479whp on MY dyno and trapped 121.
I'll post the before and after dyno for you.
After doing fi headers,300 cell high flow cats and remus exh on base header file I made 460 whp.
On race map and 82mm TB and ms109 fuel I made 479whp on MY dyno and trapped 121.
I'll post the before and after dyno for you.
Im really starting to see that headers alone don’t add much power for the crazy $4k I spent. But I’m still going to have jerry do the custom tune and see what can be squeezed out. From there, I’ll know if I want to go back to the old setup or try an h-pipe or add the resonator back (with headers on)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,768
Likes: 419
'10 C63
Dyno was same dyno, similar weather but different days. The resonator and second cats were deleted prior to my purchase. I loved the sound before but with the headers, not so much. So you’re saying leave the headers on and try putting the resonator back on? I’ll try to find a video with that setup
The tune is from Jerry at eurocharged. And yes, the charts have the afr fairly rich at around 17 max but it’s the afr numbers are pretty similar across all dyno runs (before and after)
im not throwing any codes so I believe the O2 sensors are good, their only a few years old and no issues.
The tune is from Jerry at eurocharged. And yes, the charts have the afr fairly rich at around 17 max but it’s the afr numbers are pretty similar across all dyno runs (before and after)
im not throwing any codes so I believe the O2 sensors are good, their only a few years old and no issues.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
im one step closer to removing them, thank you!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,697
Likes: 381
2005 E55
Dont give up yet.get a tweaked tune and drive the car for a few weeks.it will adapt and get better.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 61
Likes: 3
From: Denver, CO
2012 Mercedes C63 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,697
Likes: 381
2005 E55
