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Looks like excessive toe-in up front causing scrubbing like that. Three years is probably (ok definitely) too long to wait in between alignments especially if you daily drive it.
As LudeDude said, it's likely the toe-in which won't be eliminated if you're doing "factory" alignments. Next time, make sure to ask them to set the toe to "0".
As LudeDude said, it's likely the toe-in which won't be eliminated if you're doing "factory" alignments. Next time, make sure to ask them to set the toe to "0".
ok... found it...almost 3 yrs ago to the day... on summers maybe 25k miles on these? (Rears are another story we all know)
It’s camber wear. Not adjustable unless you use oem camber caster bolts to fix adjust a little or things can get pricey with adjustable arms or bushings but can dial into 0.
It’s camber wear. Not adjustable unless you use oem camber caster bolts to fix adjust a little or things can get pricey with adjustable arms or bushings but can dial into 0.
It's not camber wear. Although that can happen, wear due to toe is much more prevalent than wear due to camber. In addition, the scrubbing nature of that wear is certainly due to toe; it happens on the inside due to camber but if the static camber was zero, the whole face of the tire would look like that.
OP: your car has toe in in the rear (some is good for high speed stability) and toe out on one tire and toe in on the other up front. Also...25K miles on those fronts?!? That's enough anyway. Time for new If you want to extend the life of the tires then replace them and make sure you get as close to zero toe up front as possible.
Just as an example, here's what my last alignment looked like:
Last edited by Ludedude; 04-02-2019 at 05:43 PM.
Reason: Added photo
It's not camber wear. Although that can happen, wear due to toe is much more prevalent than wear due to camber. In addition, the scrubbing nature of that wear is certainly due to toe; it happens on the inside due to camber but if the static camber was zero, the whole face of the tire would look like that.
OP: your car has toe in in the rear (some is good for high speed stability) and toe out up front. I bet it handles lively and the car turns in and changes directions quickly as that's a great auto-cross alignment setup but not good for longevity. Also...25K miles on those fronts?!? That's enough anyway. Time for new If you want to extend the life of the tires then replace them and make sure you get as close to zero toe up front as possible.
Not camber, really? -1.7 and -1.4 as opposed to 0.13 toe settings.
Yea I would be worried about toe with those settings and the inside edge wear.
Not camber, really? -1.7 and -1.4 as opposed to 0.13 toe settings.
Yea I would be worried about toe with those settings and the inside edge wear.
Yea, really. The wear is not even, the tires are cupped and scrubbed and that's not due to camber but rather toe.
I've run way more camber (-3.0+) up front on track cars that I also drove on the street and they don't look that way, even with Hoosier R comps or even slicks. Camber wear is nice and even, not chunked to hell. I get that it's the easy answer because you can see the camber, but it's just not accurate. Toe (in or out) is a much greater contributor to wear than camber is.
It's the combo of toe out AND negative camber with over 25k miles. Looks like normal wear to me with that alignment.
I am currently at 0 toe up front and I think I'll dial in some toe out again. I ran 1/16" total toe out before and that was a nice compromise. Too much under-steer in the round-a-boots with zero.
Agree. Putting in the Mercedes camber / caster bolts will give a fixed adjustment to reduce the negative camber. Needs to be done prior to alignment and costs about $40. Does not allow adjustments like other options but those are $500 and up and don’t come without drama for many.
I put them on mine when my PSS looked exactly the same after 20k miles.
Originally Posted by Jasonoff
It's the combo of toe out AND negative camber with over 25k miles. Looks like normal wear to me with that alignment.
I am currently at 0 toe up front and I think I'll dial in some toe out again. I ran 1/16" total toe out before and that was a nice compromise. Too much under-steer in the round-a-boots with zero.
Agree. Putting in the Mercedes camber / caster bolts will give a fixed adjustment to reduce the negative camber. Needs to be done prior to alignment and costs about $40. Does not allow adjustments like other options but those are $500 and up and don’t come without drama for many.
I put them on mine when my PSS looked exactly the same after 20k miles.
It's still more caused by the toe out though. Maybe 80:20 ratio so getting rid of the camber won't fix it. Just prolong it a little bit.
Camber doesn't wear tires at extreme rates. When suspension cycles driving down a road or entering, exiting a corner camber changes.
Imagine rolling a tire down a straight line across a shop floor. This is zero toe, zero camber.
Now tilt that tire (but keep it pointed straight) and ROLL it down that line. This is camber.
Now rotate that tire 1.8 degrees and DRAG it down the same straight line. This is toe
2010 Ford G6E Turbo / 2013 C63 Coupe - AMG Performance Pack
I just had mine aligned recently when I had new rear tyres fitted. As you can see mine has less toe and less camber. Apparently mine already has the MB camber bolts installed.
Last edited by juggernaut1; 04-02-2019 at 07:49 PM.
2010 Ford G6E Turbo / 2013 C63 Coupe - AMG Performance Pack
Originally Posted by BLKSHRK
Camber doesn't wear tires at extreme rates. When suspension cycles driving down a road or entering, exiting a corner camber changes.
Imagine rolling a tire down a straight line across a shop floor. This is zero toe, zero camber.
Now tilt that tire (but keep it pointed straight) and ROLL it down that line. This is camber.
Now rotate that tire 1.8 degrees and DRAG it down the same straight line. This is toe
Which one is going to wear the tire more?
IMO - the toe causes the wear but the camber concentrates that wear as we are seeing here. If there was no camber, in theory toe would cause the wear across the entire width of the tyre.
I thought 25,000 Miles is good enough for the front tires on this car. With two sets of wheels, this can be good for 5 years, after which the rubber will be too old anyway, considering that when you buy the tires brand new, it's normal for them to be 1-2 years old. By 7 years old, they start to dry rot.
Yes, toe is worse than camber for wear. Not that camber has zero effect, it’s just not the driving force as you understand.
I understand completely what's happening. The tire is dragging along the road surface while rotating. Since they are pointed out, the inside tread blocks get most of the beating because of the direction the force is applied. Then, the negative camber amplifies it.
If there was 0 camber, the wear would look slightly different and would have lasted longer before wearing through the inside.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
+1 - all valid points above. As for that particular set, the rubber has completely cracked down to the carcass (which would also indicate that the tires were too old) and those are unsafe.
+1 - all valid points above. As for that particular set, the rubber has completely cracked down to the carcass (which would also indicate that the tires were too old) and those are unsafe.
yup... unsafe, but threw them on anyway... just to get to my Indy shop... got here fine... phew
we’ll see what the prealignment figures are... may get a quote for pre-emotive headbolt repair too.
Being conscious how low the tread is, I was caressing her trying to stretch as much life out of them as I could before putting her down for most of the winter. I plan on giving her some much needed attention like draining and pumping her with fresh fluids, adding some tasteful implants, and rewire her brain. I wanted to beat on her with a fresh pair of sneaks once the weather broke free.
While it's no excuse, I've worn down many tires well past this point and have never seen, let alone, experienced this. I check the tires just about every day keeping tabs on the condition. There was no warning, other than the warning tabs 😏, all of a sudden I just heard slapping coming from the front left end. When it happened, I remembered having come across this post and it occurred in the same area as yours. Hope it's just a coincidence...
04-02-2019, 01:22 PM
If you want to extend the life of the tires then replace them and make sure you get as close to zero toe up front as possible.
