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coding and flashing a 507 firmware and data file are complete different things. Also tuning an ecu is a different thing apart from these two.
to properly tune any ecu not just Mercedes, you need access to definition (damos) files for the particular data within the ecu. This is data that is developed by Bosch in this particular car for mercedes. Having this gives you definitions for the data. All the data. What you do with it from there makes you a good or bad tuner.
variant coding does very little to vehicle performance. Don’t confuse what variant coding can do compared to actually tuning he ecu.
torque is just a calculated number within the ecu based on several maps. It’s the basis really of any Bosch ecu and one of the main functions of the ecu. It communicates torque as a request from various modules so they can perform properly. There are several limiters within the ecu for various conditions. There is also maximum torque produced within the tcu also. This is an actual limiter. Without changing this, tuners do things within the ecu to get around it. On the 204 cars these band-aid solutions work ok mainly because the car doesn’t make enough actual torque but the moment you add a supercharger you will start getting slippage.
As far as closed loop, the moment you change actual gear ratio in the car. For example rear differential. The car will think the transmission is slipping and will put the car in limp mode. Yes it’s closed loop but it’s smart enough to know that something is right. Until proper calibration and coding is done. This requires both in this case.
I think we are talking about the same things:
Once you have the definitions, you can open up the maps of the ECU, you can see the tables, you can understand what is a engine temperature table vs timing, etc..
Once this happens, as you say, one can begin tuning, but then you can either know, or not know what you're doing, ok.
I am saying that other than Variant Coding, there is also Variant Mapping.
I am saying that once I'm honest with myself and admit that I don't really know that good what I'm doing, there is a workaround...
By variant coding, I mean the list that pops up in Xentry, where for instance, if you have access, you can change the maximum speed. There probably is a larger table than the one I have, but essentially, you select coding options and the ECU auto-tunes accordingly, a safe way, but limited too and not really tuning.
By variant mapping I mean (the following is a fictional example):
I download the map that my car has stock from the factory in my ECU. Using the definitions, I open it up and can see tables. One could be "torque demand vs coolant temperature", for instance. (again, fictional example)
I can see this, because I have the definitions.
Then should I tune this?
Although I don't know the answer, I can source from someone the variant map of the 507 with cooling package.
Now I open the "torque demand vs coolant temperature" in the 507 with cooling package
I see different numbers there, when compared with my stock C63.
I buy the OEM cooling package and install it.
Now I can go to my map and change the values in the table to what the 507 with cooling package has, cause I know that this is safe. I get more torque.
What if I buy a double flow radiator and somehow fit it in the car?
My cooling capacity increased maybe by 10% over the 507 W/cooling package(fictional)
The factory tuned the torque vs temp to allow more torque by 10% for the 507 w/cooling package vs base.
Hm, maybe I can take up in the table an additional 5% torque as compared with the 507 W/CP, then.. I get more torque.
I then go to log and watch for problems, if there are none, I can try 7%, etc.
This is what I mean and having a library of stock maps creates this capability, or so I think.
Also, I think I get what you're saying, feel free to correct me:
The name of the game, tuning wise is "requested torque", but without a supercharger, not much of this is held back anyway and therefore not much tuning is needed.
Tuning of this closed loop ECU, that gets the running conditions not from a table, but from sensors, is done in a more roundabout way. And it's done by playing around with restrictions and limitations?
So one removes the limitations off of the throttle body (base version) and possibly some associated cooling settings changes, then to get a bit more, you have to go past the TCU imposed torque restrictions, then that's it and after that the ECU close-loop-adjusts based on the amount of air it can gulp, if you continue to improve the hardware.
I think we are talking about the same things:
Once you have the definitions, you can open up the maps of the ECU, you can see the tables, you can understand what is a engine temperature table vs timing, etc..
Once this happens, as you say, one can begin tuning, but then you can either know, or not know what you're doing, ok.
I am saying that other than Variant Coding, there is also Variant Mapping.
I am saying that once I'm honest with myself and admit that I don't really know that good what I'm doing, there is a workaround...
By variant coding, I mean the list that pops up in Xentry, where for instance, if you have access, you can change the maximum speed. There probably is a larger table than the one I have, but essentially, you select coding options and the ECU auto-tunes accordingly, a safe way, but limited too and not really tuning.
By variant mapping I mean (the following is a fictional example):
I download the map that my car has stock from the factory in my ECU. Using the definitions, I open it up and can see tables. One could be "torque demand vs coolant temperature", for instance. (again, fictional example)
I can see this, because I have the definitions.
Then should I tune this?
Although I don't know the answer, I can source from someone the variant map of the 507 with cooling package.
Now I open the "torque demand vs coolant temperature" in the 507 with cooling package
I see different numbers there, when compared with my stock C63.
I buy the OEM cooling package and install it.
Now I can go to my map and change the values in the table to what the 507 with cooling package has, cause I know that this is safe. I get more torque.
What if I buy a double flow radiator and somehow fit it in the car?
My cooling capacity increased maybe by 10% over the 507 W/cooling package(fictional)
The factory tuned the torque vs temp to allow more torque by 10% for the 507 w/cooling package vs base.
Hm, maybe I can take up in the table an additional 5% torque as compared with the 507 W/CP, then.. I get more torque.
I then go to log and watch for problems, if there are none, I can try 7%, etc.
This is what I mean and having a library of stock maps creates this capability, or so I think.
variant mapping as you defined it is variant coding. You also defined tuning as well. To go in and change something is the definition of tuning or calibration modifying.
you can’t do variant coding change for something specific to the 507 as example. That’s part of the cal.
Also, I think I get what you're saying, feel free to correct me:
The name of the game, tuning wise is "requested torque", but without a supercharger, not much of this is held back anyway and therefore not much tuning is needed.
Tuning of this closed loop ECU, that gets the running conditions not from a table, but from sensors, is done in a more roundabout way. And it's done by playing around with restrictions and limitations?
So one removes the limitations off of the throttle body (base version) and possibly some associated cooling settings changes, then to get a bit more, you have to go past the TCU imposed torque restrictions, then that's it and after that the ECU close-loop-adjusts based on the amount of air it can gulp, if you continue to improve the hardware.
On a m156 powered car that is running let’s say headers air box and small other upgrades, the tuning is quite simple. You will not see the downsides of modifying torque request tables. You start seeing the downside when you make real power. Example, supercharger. This issue is even more evident in m157 m177 cars. Making changes in torque maps on these cars have very negative affect if done wrong because those engines produce enough torque to damage components.
Nothing about torque calculation is closed loop. It is called calculated torque because it’s a hard set map or set of maps in the calibration. And to touch more in closed loop functions in the ecu, everything closed loop still has maps that are extremely accurate from the factory. For example if you start your car early in the morning, the car is in open loop for a certain amount of time before the sensors reach operating temps. The way the car runs perfect is, maps that are very accurate.
I think you are mixing up the term of closed loop function with all this being said and what it pertains to within the ecu.
most everything is done directly. Not in round about way. It is really only when you adjust maps that have communication with other modules is when you have to do it round about way, if you can’t tune these other modules. Tcu being an example for most tuners (not my self). Torque calculation is a big one that is modified and can cause issues with how the transmission and ecu functions.
ok, I can agree with this.
I have some pics, to help clarify what I'm talking about.
I think that when a 507 leaves the factory, it leaves with two sets of things:
1. The settings in Xentry such as the maximum speed. These are not calibrations and Xentry calls them I think variant coding.
This cannot be copied from a 507 to another car.
2. The map, set of calibrations in tables that you cannot see with Xentry, but only with the definitions software. This is the OEM map specific to the 507. It can be downloaded, copied and edited with a proper editor. it can be emailed too.
My car also has this set, I can look at mines with the same editor.
Once you see this table (fictional, this above is for a Subaru) for a 507, you can compare with the one from the factory for my car, extrapolate and manually change the settings in your table, to match the ones in the 507, once the hardware is similar enough.
On a m156 powered car that is running let’s say headers air box and small other upgrades, the tuning is quite simple. You will not see the downsides of modifying torque request tables. You start seeing the downside when you make real power. Example, supercharger. This issue is even more evident in m157 m177 cars. Making changes in torque maps on these cars have very negative affect if done wrong because those engines produce enough torque to damage components.
Nothing about torque calculation is closed loop. It is called calculated torque because it’s a hard set map or set of maps in the calibration. And to touch more in closed loop functions in the ecu, everything closed loop still has maps that are extremely accurate from the factory. For example if you start your car early in the morning, the car is in open loop for a certain amount of time before the sensors reach operating temps. The way the car runs perfect is, maps that are very accurate.
I think you are mixing up the term of closed loop function with all this being said and what it pertains to within the ecu.
most everything is done directly. Not in round about way. It is really only when you adjust maps that have communication with other modules is when you have to do it round about way, if you can’t tune these other modules. Tcu being an example for most tuners (not my self). Torque calculation is a big one that is modified and can cause issues with how the transmission and ecu functions.
ok, I can agree with this.
When I get home, I will post some pics, to help clarify what I'm talking about.
I think that when a 507 leaves the factory, it leaves with two sets of things:
1. The settings in Xentry such as the maximum speed. These are not calibrations and Xentry calls them I think variant coding.
2. The map, set of calibrations in tables that you cannot see with Xentry, but only with the definitions software. This is the OEM map specific to the 507. It can be downloaded, copied and edited with a proper editor.
yes mostly correct. If you view the calibration you can find the variant coding data within it also and modify those. Then it won’t matter what Xentry sees or is being pointed to. For example variant coding for speedlimit has 8 possibilities. 8 hex addresses that can be modified.
What's the difference between Xentry coding and Vediamo ?
Vediamo has the coding database onboard and does not need to connect to the MB servers to code? Like the older offline up to 2012 Xentry?
What about Monaco?
Is it worth it to spend the money and buy the books to learn Vediamo and Monaco? Is the point of knowing all these to be able to access the coding table of each of the modules?
Is it important because the commonly sold map editor can only access the ECU, but not all the units on the CAN? Is this the limitation that most face, that you speak of, not being to edit the maps of any other than the ECU?
Then the TCU and SAM's you edit with the options available via coding with Vediamo and Monaco?
Does any of the Vediamo or Monaco need to have Xentry actually run in the background, to do coding? therefore, if you don't have an official Xentry, you can't use them anyway?
What's a "factory software update"? is it a module firmware update, followed by a map update of the unit, is it done via Xentry? I mean, can firmware even be updated via Xentry?
If you do a swap of a M156 into.. something else and don't want to have anything else on the CAN, only the ECU and don't want drive authorization either, because the car will sit in garage and at shows (or in case of a dedicated track car converted to manual transmission), can you buy a blank ECU and not have flashed on it a drive authorization and not have the ECU look for anything (any other unit) on the CAN?
I wonder if this is what Jay Leno got with the M156 that AMG gave him, to do a swap into am older MB...
Can I buy a TCU, send it to you and you set it up where my unofficial TCU can code it without looking for the MB servers, just like it did with my light/rain sensor, maybe change the status to "unimportant/secondary module"? (I'm kidding with this, I know that the TCU is integrated by the conductor plate, inside the transmission and probably I would have to buy the whole assembly for $$$$$)
Will the drive authorization system allow me to swap ECU's back and forth? With the Subaru I have two ECU's, the factory one and the tuned one. But security wise, it is archaic. But as far as state inspection, flashing the factory tune back and then tune isn't going to cut it forever. I like having two ECU's.
Can I PM you my car's information, to find out if there's an update for my transmission?
What's the difference between Xentry coding and Vediamo ?
Vediamo has the coding database onboard and does not need to connect to the MB servers to code? Like the older offline up to 2012 Xentry?
What about Monaco?
Is it worth it to spend the money and buy the books to learn Vediamo and Monaco? Is the point of knowing all these to be able to access the coding table of each of the modules?
Is it important because the commonly sold map editor can only access the ECU, but not all the units on the CAN? Is this the limitation that most face, that you speak of, not being to edit the maps of any other than the ECU?
Then the TCU and SAM's you edit with the options available via coding with Vediamo and Monaco?
Does any of the Vediamo or Monaco need to have Xentry actually run in the background, to do coding? therefore, if you don't have an official Xentry, you can't use them anyway?
What's a "factory software update"? is it a module firmware update, followed by a map update of the unit, is it done via Xentry? I mean, can firmware even be updated via Xentry?
If you do a swap of a M156 into.. something else and don't want to have anything else on the CAN, only the ECU and don't want drive authorization either, because the car will sit in garage and at shows (or in case of a dedicated track car converted to manual transmission), can you buy a blank ECU and not have flashed on it a drive authorization and not have the ECU look for anything (any other unit) on the CAN?
I wonder if this is what Jay Leno got with the M156 that AMG gave him, to do a swap into am older MB...
Can I buy a TCU, send it to you and you set it up where my unofficial TCU can code it without looking for the MB servers, just like it did with my light/rain sensor, maybe change the status to "unimportant/secondary module"? (I'm kidding with this, I know that the TCU is integrated by the conductor plate, inside the transmission and probably I would have to buy the whole assembly for $$$$$)
Will the drive authorization system allow me to swap ECU's back and forth? With the Subaru I have two ECU's, the factory one and the tuned one. But security wise, it is archaic. But as far as state inspection, flashing the factory tune back and then tune isn't going to cut it forever. I like having two ECU's.
Can I PM you my car's information, to find out if there's an update for my transmission?
dont Pm me please about your car update. I’m not your free dealership...
remaining questions I will try to answer. There’s once again many questions.
Xentry vediamo and Monaco work using the same concepts and definitions. Xentry is a novice and user friendly tool with very little adjustability especially as you get to newer cars. You typically need “online” access to do any real updates and you can’t at which point change coding outside of the car’s original state. Vediamo and Monaco are not user friendly at all, require a deep understanding of vehicle infrastructure but are very powerful offline and can flash and code any module as you please. Example is me flashing firmware and map data of a 507 into your non 507 2012+ c63.
I don’t know your value of money. So hard to say what things are worth to you. The books are a general concept of user flow. They don’t teach you how to not completely destroy a module by flashing wrong data or coding wrong info that causes issues with other modules on CAN network. If after 15 years no one on mbworld has answered these questions and other well known tuners can’t do this, I would think you understand user difficulties.
map editing and coding or use of vediamo or Monaco are completely irrelevant. Hard and really in depth question to answer. To do my job well. My goal is to do both with as many modules in the car that affect performance. Ecu tcu now cpc module on newer 9 speed cars.
yes firmware can be updated by Xentry. Xentry is a software that can push updates as a pass thru to any module it and the online server communicate to. On the w204 via xcp protocol on the can bus, it has ability to put the module in bootloader mode and flash entire contents. Firmware and data. I discussed this briefly. Ask a programmer more about this. Once again very in depth question that will further add confusion here
nothing on the car looks for online servers at least on a 204 chassis. If you want changes done to your tcu you will need to plug into it and make changes via Xentry vediamo Monaco or a tuner’s ability to modify the map.
I can clone an ecu for you and it will work. Just plug and drive. Or even better I can tune your ecu to have the most wild tune....and pass your state inspections. Or both!
dont Pm me please about your car update. I’m not your free dealership...
remaining questions I will try to answer. There’s once again many questions.
Xentry vediamo and Monaco work using the same concepts and definitions. Xentry is a novice and user friendly tool with very little adjustability especially as you get to newer cars. You typically need “online” access to do any real updates and you can’t at which point change coding outside of the car’s original state. Vediamo and Monaco are not user friendly at all, require a deep understanding of vehicle infrastructure but are very powerful offline and can flash and code any module as you please. Example is me flashing firmware and map data of a 507 into your non 507 2012+ c63.
I don’t know your value of money. So hard to say what things are worth to you. The books are a general concept of user flow. They don’t teach you how to not completely destroy a module by flashing wrong data or coding wrong info that causes issues with other modules on CAN network. If after 15 years no one on mbworld has answered these questions and other well known tuners can’t do this, I would think you understand user difficulties.
map editing and coding or use of vediamo or Monaco are completely irrelevant. Hard and really in depth question to answer. To do my job well. My goal is to do both with as many modules in the car that affect performance. Ecu tcu now cpc module on newer 9 speed cars.
yes firmware can be updated by Xentry. Xentry is a software that can push updates as a pass thru to any module it and the online server communicate to. On the w204 via xcp protocol on the can bus, it has ability to put the module in bootloader mode and flash entire contents. Firmware and data. I discussed this briefly. Ask a programmer more about this. Once again very in depth question that will further add confusion here
nothing on the car looks for online servers at least on a 204 chassis. If you want changes done to your tcu you will need to plug into it and make changes via Xentry vediamo Monaco or a tuner’s ability to modify the map.
I can clone an ecu for you and it will work. Just plug and drive. Or even better I can tune your ecu to have the most wild tune....and pass your state inspections. Or both!
I can understand your comment, however, as I think that you are currently in Germany, understand this:
Here in US, updates are not at all free and available, as they are at dealerships in Germany.
In fact, 2 weeks ago, I paid the dealership $300 to scan my car for possible updates. Prior I had spoken to an AMG tech at the same dealership, who said there will be plenty, as my car had no update done, according to the Vehicle Master Report.
So, once again, seemed pretty normal to pay $300 for their time (oh and don't think that for this money, they agreed to scan all systems, no, they only scanned ECU and TCU) and their answer was that there are no updates available, well this was the answer from the manager.
The word free and the word update don't belong in the same sentence in US.
So no, I intend to pay for whatever services we can agree upon and thank you for the information so far.
Can you PM me a price for an European 507 ECU that can be plug and play for my car and I can keep using my current ECU as well when I need to?
Can you PM the price for a tune?
Also, just to see if you know anything about this:
the W204 does not get remote start out of the mercedesme ap. But I've read that this no remote start situation is not a lack of the feature but a decision Mercedes made, due to some sort of concerns and that this feature is available to shops for shop use as needed. If this is true, can you turn the feature on?
I can understand your comment, however, as I think that you are currently in Germany, understand this:
Here in US, updates are not at all free and available, as they are at dealerships in Germany.
In fact, 2 weeks ago, I paid the dealership $300 to scan my car for possible updates. Prior I had spoken to an AMG tech at the same dealership, who said there will be plenty, as my car had no update done, according to the Vehicle Master Report.
So, once again, seemed pretty normal to pay $300 for their time (oh and don't think that for this money, they agreed to scan all systems, no, they only scanned ECU and TCU) and their answer was that there are no updates available, well this was the answer from the manager.
The word free and the word update don't belong in the same sentence in US.
So no, I intend to pay for whatever services we can agree upon and thank you for the information so far.
Can you PM me a price for an European 507 ECU that can be plug and play for my car and I can keep using my current ECU as well when I need to?
Can you PM the price for a tune?
Also, just to see if you know anything about this:
the W204 does not get remote start out of the mercedesme ap. But I've read that this no remote start situation is not a lack of the feature but a decision Mercedes made, due to some sort of concerns and that this feature is available to shops for shop use as needed. If this is true, can you turn the feature on?
it is not free anywhere in the world. Updates by the factory that are deemed not recalls are a courtesy for cars that fall within warranty. Or if you pay to have it done.
it’s hard to believe they didn’t run a short test and capture every module in the car. It takes the same time and techs at dealer level have a prerogative to do this when car is out of warranty. They get paid to essentially let the car sit and get updates.
what year is your car? pm me details Please is you don’t want to share.
as far as mercedesme yes that sounds legitimate. Impossible however to add a car that isn’t on the approved list. This is protected my a lot of software and security implementation.
variant coding is toggling things on like options or region to enable functionality that already exists is what you are referring to.
you can't apply this same functionality to an Engine Computer in whole as as shown in HP tuners there are many toggles for variant features. In regards to rev matching for downshifts, if the code does not exist within the computer it will not be possible without rewrite of code base and complete OS write to the computers OS that does support the feature. To enable this you will need someone with the ability, technical skill, and appropriate hardware and software to edit code bases and combine/hack/edit. This only works if the code binary has enough free bits between sections of code to apply. You cannot shift maps or code around as the computer looks to a bit/byte location for code/maps. Additionally, if the older computers hardware does not have the right size ROM chip or the hardware speed or specification to support this will not be possible.
this type of developer is rare as generally speaking the return in investment never is enough. an example of this, a guy in sweden for a specific audi 1.8t platform has remapped the secondary oxygen sensor to utilize a flex fuel sensor, and repurposed a map that exists, to now be used as a flex fuel map. you cannot add what does not exist.
variant coding is toggling things on like options or region to enable functionality that already exists is what you are referring to.
you can't apply this same functionality to an Engine Computer in whole as as shown in HP tuners there are many toggles for variant features. In regards to rev matching for downshifts, if the code does not exist within the computer it will not be possible without rewrite of code base and complete OS write to the computers OS that does support the feature. To enable this you will need someone with the ability, technical skill, and appropriate hardware and software to edit code bases and combine/hack/edit. This only works if the code binary has enough free bits between sections of code to apply. You cannot shift maps or code around as the computer looks to a bit/byte location for code/maps. Additionally, if the older computers hardware does not have the right size ROM chip or the hardware speed or specification to support this will not be possible.
this type of developer is rare as generally speaking the return in investment never is enough. an example of this, a guy in sweden for a specific audi 1.8t platform has remapped the secondary oxygen sensor to utilize a flex fuel sensor, and repurposed a map that exists, to now be used as a flex fuel map. you cannot add what does not exist.
Bro we are using the hardware and software Mercedes uses to build the cars. Like the hardware that programs a module to tell it what it is and does. Not even close to hp tuners lol
variant coding is toggling things on like options or region to enable functionality that already exists is what you are referring to.
you can't apply this same functionality to an Engine Computer in whole as as shown in HP tuners there are many toggles for variant features. In regards to rev matching for downshifts, if the code does not exist within the computer it will not be possible without rewrite of code base and complete OS write to the computers OS that does support the feature. To enable this you will need someone with the ability, technical skill, and appropriate hardware and software to edit code bases and combine/hack/edit. This only works if the code binary has enough free bits between sections of code to apply. You cannot shift maps or code around as the computer looks to a bit/byte location for code/maps. Additionally, if the older computers hardware does not have the right size ROM chip or the hardware speed or specification to support this will not be possible.
this type of developer is rare as generally speaking the return in investment never is enough. an example of this, a guy in sweden for a specific audi 1.8t platform has remapped the secondary oxygen sensor to utilize a flex fuel sensor, and repurposed a map that exists, to now be used as a flex fuel map. you cannot add what does not exist.
all true. The topic of coding came up so I answer as much as I can.
but if you want rev match added to non rev match car, I can do also. I have done many clk black series w211 w219 chassis with m156 etc. it does require all new software in ecu and tcu.
all true. The topic of coding came up so I answer as much as I can.
but if you want rev match added to non rev match car, I can do also. I have done many clk black series w211 w219 chassis with m156 etc. it does require all new software in ecu and tcu.
Can you do anything about the downshift barks? Mine and a few others the downshift bark was pretty loud then Mercedes did gearbox software updates and the downshift noise isnt loud or hardly there at all.
I think that at this point all the people who should, are watching this, so I need to ask this other question, not exactly Variant related:
Tunes that people get, are they locked?
Here's the background:
One of the tuning platforms for Subaru is Ecutek. the tuning maps are edited using this. SO the settings of the tune are changed, the files is saved for flashing and the flashing facility loaded. Ecutek then offers a passowrd feature.
So in reality, you get the tune, your car does what it does, 6 months later you go to get a different tune from someone else and …. nope, the map is locked and cannot be removed.
In the end, you can send your ECU out and have this professionally removed, but it's a problem. Success rate is 80%, bricking is possible.
As long as the same tuner does the tune, it's not a problem.
The controversy is raging there, because on one side, it's normal for tuners to want to protect their work, but it's not normal for owners to have to jump through hoops to tune their car subsequently.
The point of some of the tuning boxes is the same , to protect the tune. but if your at a later time renounce the tune in a box and want a dyno tune from a different platform, your ECU may need to be un-married from the tuning box and that can be easy... or not.
What's the situation like, what have people seen with our cars? do people get stuck with a tuning platform, or a tune?
If your ECU has been locked it will be locked out at the time of reading not at the time of flashing so tuning the ECU should be no issues
not necessarily accurate. He is referring to a password that is only recognized by ecutek or in a location of the data that maybe even the oem calibration recognizes as a password.
in the case of a w204 c63, there is no way to actually protect the contents. It can be read via BDM (background debut mode) very easily. Only way to protect this is to glue the cover shut or put some form of glue over the bdm port but this can be removed. Really there is no way you can protect your contents as a tuner.
Can you do anything about the downshift barks? Mine and a few others the downshift bark was pretty loud then Mercedes did gearbox software updates and the downshift noise isnt loud or hardly there at all.
any tuner worth their salt could. do they want to...generally no. it involves introducing dirty variables into your perfect mapping. also, it occurs when lift throttle/zero throttle not necessarily downshift. when you input dirty variables to make sound throttle response is greatly diminished at crack of throttle opening. if you strictly want this for downshift it requires dumping fuel in zero load values above 3k as well and timing edits.
any tuner worth their salt could. do they want to...generally no. it involves introducing dirty variables into your perfect mapping. also, it occurs when lift throttle/zero throttle not necessarily downshift. when you input dirty variables to make sound throttle response is greatly diminished at crack of throttle opening. if you strictly want this for downshift it requires dumping fuel in zero load values above 3k as well and timing edits.
the back fire or pop and bang or burble is exactly this. It is completely terrible. Maybe what he is referring to is schubabschaltung maps (google it). These are the maps that are over run fuel that the factory implements for the sound you get. These can only be adjusted so much before you start doing what you pointed out. It is a disaster waiting to happen. I’ve have seen turbos explode from this.
any tuner worth their salt could. do they want to...generally no. it involves introducing dirty variables into your perfect mapping. also, it occurs when lift throttle/zero throttle not necessarily downshift. when you input dirty variables to make sound throttle response is greatly diminished at crack of throttle opening. if you strictly want this for downshift it requires dumping fuel in zero load values above 3k as well and timing edits.
Originally Posted by Kirklandhans
the back fire or pop and bang or burble is exactly this. It is completely terrible. Maybe what he is referring to is schubabschaltung maps (google it). These are the maps that are over run fuel that the factory implements for the sound you get. These can only be adjusted so much before you start doing what you pointed out. It is a disaster waiting to happen. I’ve have seen turbos explode from this.
Nope what I am on about is I bought the c63 from new in 2013, on downshifts when changing gear it used to do a loud wiplash bang on downshifts, Mercedes then updated the gearbox software around 2015/2016 and the noise is hardly there anymore, not as violent and is pretty tame in sound. The car even used to be this loud standard.
to previous post, thats not really much crack and burble. easily done using schubabschaltung. using the appropriate maps this could be doubled.
even then the flexibility isn't enough for what people are looking for. my E63 with factory tune did as the video shows after resonators were cut out.
Yes I just want back what it used to sound like from new before the gearbox update, if you watch the full video you can tell the difference in sound volume and also tone. I am not after this awful aftermarket pops and bangs people put on.
What would Mercedes have done to the gearbox software to make this quite?
Remapping and secondary decat does bring some noise back but nothing like the first 10-20 seconds of that video on a stock c63.
I will wait to see what kirklandhans says as surely you can rollback a gearbox update to an early version?
02-10-2020, 03:32 PM
(I'm kidding with this, I know that the TCU is integrated by the conductor plate, inside the transmission and probably I would have to buy the whole assembly for $$$$$)
