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Alright, I've been ridiculously busy within the past year but I'd like to get some information out there on variant coding and tweaks. Only problem is I've forgotten where that whole conversation was left off. There's this thread on solving the throttle lag problem on regular W204s (and also livening up throttle response on the AMGs).
How should I go about this? List every known parameter for every control unit I can think of/have translated? List the stuff I've found useful? There's lots for me to sift through and I'd like to help out by turning this thread into the resource for variant coding.
I've dabbled with things of interest like:
throttle lag (as mentioned, obviously)
power steering weight
adjusting fuel pump coding to accept aftermarket AEM fuel pumps in place of the stock siemens units
making non-resistor/canbus LED bulbs work flawlessly
turning off seatbelt chimes
making high beam, low beam, and fog lights all function simultaneously in PFL models
custom ASSYST oil change intervals
actuation of secondary electronic water pump (function still undetermined)
climate control tweaks
raising of electronic speed limiter to 300km/h w/o a tune
possibly enabling/disabling throttle blips
etc
What I don't want this thread to be is a walkthrough guide on setting up your own STAR kit. If I'm honest, it's been so long that I don't even remember all of the steps. This thread is for people who have the setup ready to go and have basic knowledge of the file structure/software for making these changes.
and as always, i'm not responsible if you break your car.
edit: For example, by the end of this weekend, I'll have my guide up for how to change the weight/firmness of your speed sensitive power steering, which might also possibly be easier on your pump in the long run if you prefer heavier steering - Every item will be a separate post in this thread.
I talked to a tuner in germany and said you cant code throttle because it's part of the whole traction control system. But there are things you can do but he didn't really help me. It's all in german and you can literally mess your car up.
I talked to a tuner in germany and said you cant code throttle because it's part of the whole traction control system. But there are things you can do but he didn't really help me. It's all in german and you can literally mess your car up.
Does he mean throttle like the lastschlagdampfung parameter? It definitely has an effect and hasn't negatively impacted traction control.
but yeah, everything is in German, and you can absolutely screw up your car if you're not careful and just change random stuff.
Originally Posted by Jasonoff
Have you figured how to code out airbags so you don't need a resistor with fuse to trick the system?
actually tried looking into that when my seat wiring harnesses screwed up in my c250, but the SRS control unit is pretty locked down and I can't find anything in any of the .CBF files I have for the unit, variant coding is just blank or lacking anything useful
Does he mean throttle like the lastschlagdampfung parameter? It definitely has an effect and hasn't negatively impacted traction control.
but yeah, everything is in German, and you can absolutely screw up your car if you're not careful and just change random stuff.
actually tried looking into that when my seat wiring harnesses screwed up in my c250, but the SRS control unit is pretty locked down and I can't find anything in any of the .CBF files I have for the unit, variant coding is just blank or lacking anything useful
Yes that is what I tried doing. you cant adjust that on our cars because of the traction control and TCU. I've been in there and it doesn't have the same adjustments of regular cars to change it.
This is as far as I got from him.
i guess the best thing is to get a euro spec 507 firmware blasted on our cars and tune on top of that.he would not give me the files either.
This is such BS (and I don't mean Black Series), that one can't talk to a dealer and pay them to get an updated OEM firmware for your ECU and have to go roundabout hunting for workarounds.
This is such BS (and I don't mean Black Series), that one can't talk to a dealer and pay them to get an updated OEM firmware for your ECU and have to go roundabout hunting for workarounds.
I have p31 and they wont or cant flash a 507 firmware on it they said.
Yes that is what I tried doing. you cant adjust that on our cars because of the traction control and TCU. I've been in there and it doesn't have the same adjustments of regular cars to change it.
This is as far as I got from him.
i guess the best thing is to get a euro spec 507 firmware blasted on our cars and tune on top of that.he would not give me the files either.
Someone pointed these message out so I want to shed some light on coding and tuning these cars. If you have more questions just let me know here so it can help everyone reading.
I have p31 and they wont or cant flash a 507 firmware on it they said.
they won’t. As long as the hardware number on ecu is ending in 1700 or more, then it can be flashed with this firmware. it is not even up to the tech or dealer. They simply plug a device that reads your vin number and sends it to a database that knows your vehicle specs. If you don’t have a 507 or black series it won’t allow that to get flashed.
What happens when you buy a replacement ECU brand new from the dealer?
1. Is the dealer responsible to flash the proper map for your car included in the price of the ECU
2. This ECU comes with the newest firmware then?
3. Before the ECU is flashed with the stock map by the dealer, it is then blank and unlocked, to where you can access coding with a Xentry?
What happens when you buy a replacement ECU brand new from the dealer?
1. Is the dealer responsible to flash the proper map for your car included in the price of the ECU
2. This ECU comes with the newest firmware then?
3. Before the ECU is flashed with the stock map by the dealer, it is then blank and unlocked, to where you can access coding with a Xentry?
1: A dealership or independent shop with online access is capable of performing the work. If you are buying a replacement ecu and it is not warranty related, you will pay for the ecu and cost of time it takes to flash the ecu. Usually a 2-3 hour process. The dealer or independent shop plug in their Xentry tool and go to the command that states vehicle received new module. The tool then goes its thing to talk to Mercedes’ server and flash the module. It’s usually flashes the latest version released by Mercedes for that particular vehicle. You can’t just go in and select from various files. It’s all automated and pretty full proof.
2. answered in question one. Typically for an ecu that is brand new. Yes.
3. it is in what’s called bootloader mode or basis variant. There is data inside but it makes very little sense if you compare that data to an actual map. You can always access the ecu with Xentry or developer software to code an ecu. It being “blank” has nothing to do with you being able to code the ecu. As long as the ecu is not damaged it can be accessed for coding.
Can you share with us some things we can do in vidiamo to help the platform out.
The original poster made a thread about throttle response that he changed on his c300. Those options are not available.
Some things that I'm interested in is raising torque in each gear and how to change gear ratios like on the sls.
Also willing to pay for eurospec 507 firmware that came with row boxes.
everything you are referring to is not related to coding except for maybe changing the pedal map. It is related to recalibration of the ecu (tuning it).
you can adjust the pedal map but most times then not, this will have a bad effect. You can reset throttle adaptations which will help throttle response.
raising torque in each gear is transmission related and also a calibration effort. Not only coding.
Changing gear ratio can possibly be done via coding but help me understand why. You have to change the actual gear ratio also when you change this. Otherwise the car won’t run. Also this requires a lot of adjustments in the tcu.
Thank you for the info, seeing as you clearly know what you're writing, don't mind if I ask some more.
As far as the 507 and map and coding, I may be able to contribute some info:
In the Subaru World, you can get access to remap the ECU with an open source software. You gain access to around 60% of the tables that the factory uses to run the car, the rest were not reverse engineered yet, being considered not that important..
Once you have the software and think of yourself as a "Subaru god" (lol), you start wondering what you can do with all this might.
Almost nothing
Because you would not know exactly what is a beneficial change to make. One that would not backfire. Increase boost limit? Well, when the local temperature is 16F and the car feels a lot more powerful, if you floor it in high gear, you will overboost.
etc.
So how to do this?
… using variant maping.
By reading what the factory did to the car that has 50 more HP than yours from the factory, you start to understand their thinking, to see what safely works and to make these changes.
So once you have the coding software, you then go hunting for factory maps.
I have over 30.
With 5 speed transmission, with 6 speed transmission, for high octane availability nations, for low octane, for track only, for automatic, for cars equipped with water spray, for twinscroll cars, for cars with titanium turbine, for cars with larger compressor.
Then you analyze the changes. For titanium turbine, the factory felt comfortable with rising the boost. Why? you can figure it out then customize your map with what you have under the hood.
So yes, the 507 Map would be an asset, to see and analyze.
507 Germany, probably higher octane? what did they do, what can you turn up?
etc
Now, I will attempt some answers about requested changes, a tuner can correct me, I'm only an amateur tuner, although I read a lot and have experimented with these concepts.
Gear ratios:
Gear ratios in a manual transmission are used by the ECU in a car with no TCU to determine which gear is engaged. The transmission is purely mechanical therefore the ECU is blind to this info.
Once the ECU knows the gear that is engaged, it can then determine based on the boost per gear table, how much boost is allowed and prevent overboost in high gear.
Translation to C63?
I don't know, maybe the TCU confirms data from the electronic shifter position with real time feedback of wheel speed vs RPM? Maybe this is why in the adaptations the size of the tire is stored, so that it can accurately calculate the speed? With an error in this verification process maybe it modulates the torque wrong?
Torque:
I may be wrong here, but I think the way to look at torque is similar with Amperage in electricity. The correct way may be "torque demand". the ECU calculates how much torque is needed based on quite a number of factors, one being the traction control.
Now another thing: The C63 is truly closed loop, so the ECU runs the car based on real time data. In theory, this means that it should self-adapt to any hardware modification. I'm still trying to figure out how it then responds to re-mapping and what exactly do you even map, since it doesn't read from a table, like the open loop cars.
My question is:
What about the TCU?
Is that closed loop too? or maybe THAT runs the car off of a table. Maybe here's where the key is. You tune the TCU and the ECU's limitations which are set by the TCU torque demand, then change..
Anyway, sorry for the length of this, please post some more info.
Thank you for the info, seeing as you clearly know what you're writing, don't mind if I ask some more.
As far as the 507 and map and coding, I may be able to contribute some info:
In the Subaru World, you can get access to remap the ECU with an open source software. You gain access to around 60% of the tables that the factory uses to run the car, the rest were not reverse engineered yet, being considered not that important..
Once you have the software and think of yourself as a "Subaru god" (lol), you start wondering what you can do with all this might.
Almost nothing
Because you would not know exactly what is a beneficial change to make. One that would not backfire. Increase boost limit? Well, when the local temperature is 16F and the car feels a lot more powerful, if you floor it in high gear, you will overboost.
etc.
So how to do this?
… using variant maping.
By reading what the factory did to the car that has 50 more HP than yours from the factory, you start to understand their thinking, to see what safely works and to make these changes.
So once you have the coding software, you then go hunting for factory maps.
I have over 30.
With 5 speed transmission, with 6 speed transmission, for high octane availability nations, for low octane, for track only, for automatic, for cars equipped with water spray, for twinscroll cars, for cars with titanium turbine, for cars with larger compressor.
Then you analyze the changes. For titanium turbine, the factory felt comfortable with rising the boost. Why? you can figure it out then customize your map with what you have under the hood.
So yes, the 507 Map would be an asset, to see and analyze.
507 Germany, probably higher octane? what did they do, what can you turn up?
etc
Now, I will attempt some answers about requested changes, a tuner can correct me, I'm only an amateur tuner, although I read a lot and have experimented with these concepts.
Gear ratios:
Gear ratios in a manual transmission are used by the ECU in a car with no TCU to determine which gear is engaged. The transmission is purely mechanical therefore the ECU is blind to this info.
Once the ECU knows the gear that is engaged, it can then determine based on the boost per gear table, how much boost is allowed and prevent overboost in high gear.
Translation to C63?
I don't know, maybe the TCU confirms data from the electronic shifter position with real time feedback of wheel speed vs RPM? Maybe this is why in the adaptations the size of the tire is stored, so that it can accurately calculate the speed? With an error in this verification process maybe it modulates the torque wrong?
Torque:
I may be wrong here, but I think the way to look at torque is similar with Amperage in electricity. The correct way may be "torque demand". the ECU calculates how much torque is needed based on quite a number of factors, one being the traction control.
Now another thing: The C63 is truly closed loop, so the ECU runs the car based on real time data. In theory, this means that it should self-adapt to any hardware modification. I'm still trying to figure out how it then responds to re-mapping and what exactly do you even map, since it doesn't read from a table, like the open loop cars.
My question is:
What about the TCU?
Is that closed loop too? or maybe THAT runs the car off of a table. Maybe here's where the key is. You tune the TCU and the ECU's limitations which are set by the TCU torque demand, then change..
Anyway, sorry for the length of this, please post some more info.
a lot to answer here.
coding and flashing a 507 firmware and data file are complete different things. Also tuning an ecu is a different thing apart from these two.
to properly tune any ecu not just Mercedes, you need access to definition (damos) files for the particular data within the ecu. This is data that is developed by Bosch in this particular car for mercedes. Having this gives you definitions for the data. All the data. What you do with it from there makes you a good or bad tuner.
variant coding does very little to vehicle performance. Don’t confuse what variant coding can do compared to actually tuning he ecu.
torque is just a calculated number within the ecu based on several maps. It’s the basis really of any Bosch ecu and one of the main functions of the ecu. It communicates torque as a request from various modules so they can perform properly. There are several limiters within the ecu for various conditions. There is also maximum torque produced within the tcu also. This is an actual limiter. Without changing this, tuners do things within the ecu to get around it. On the 204 cars these band-aid solutions work ok mainly because the car doesn’t make enough actual torque but the moment you add a supercharger you will start getting slippage.
As far as closed loop, the moment you change actual gear ratio in the car. For example rear differential. The car will think the transmission is slipping and will put the car in limp mode. Yes it’s closed loop but it’s smart enough to know that something is right. Until proper calibration and coding is done. This requires both in this case.
Another question I have is why the usa spec car when running euro air boxes the fuel trims go to +25 to +30 at a stop light and with usa boxes they stay around +5.
Is there a different calibration for row boxs in the firmware or is it normal on euro spec cars also.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by skratch77
This guy has tuned the fastest amgs in the world lol
No shït, really? That’s cool.
Where is he located? Perhaps he’d like to help those of us (commercially) with the more unusual requests... I talked to Jerry last week about some of the coding-related things I need to fix and he told me I’m SOL basically lol.
Another question I have is why the usa spec car when running euro air boxes the fuel trims go to +25 to +30 at a stop light and with usa boxes they stay around +5.
Is there a different calibration for row boxs in the firmware or is it normal on euro spec cars also.
message him and He can fix this. Wrong calibration and coding. Both wrong. Common issue with so many tuners.
Where is he located? Perhaps he’d like to help those of us (commercially) with the more unusual requests... I talked to Jerry last week about some of the coding-related things I need to fix and he told me I’m SOL basically lol.
Another question I have is why the usa spec car when running euro air boxes the fuel trims go to +25 to +30 at a stop light and with usa boxes they stay around +5.
Is there a different calibration for row boxs in the firmware or is it normal on euro spec cars also.
Where is he located? Perhaps he’d like to help those of us (commercially) with the more unusual requests... I talked to Jerry last week about some of the coding-related things I need to fix and he told me I’m SOL basically lol.
Hes in Germany and tuned a c63s that ran 144 mph in the 1/4 mile here full stock weight
02-07-2020, 08:46 PM
