M156 / M159 Racing Coolant Thermostat by BlackBoost
#26
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Hello Members,
I hope this video from Tasos clearifies a bit the questions here. There are 2 more videos online on his channel.
Also here some data of an E63 AMG M157.
Stock Thermostat:
Ambient Temperature: 35 Celsius
Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius
OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius
.
BlackBoost Racing Thermostat:
Ambient Temperature: 39 Celsius
Instrument Cluster: Coolant 91 Celsius
OBD read: Coolant 92 Celsius
with an higher ambient temperature of 5D Celsius we are achieving -16D Celcius of coolant temperature.
Tasos Moschatos explenation RCT
I hope this video from Tasos clearifies a bit the questions here. There are 2 more videos online on his channel.
Also here some data of an E63 AMG M157.
Stock Thermostat:
Ambient Temperature: 35 Celsius
Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius
OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius
.
BlackBoost Racing Thermostat:
Ambient Temperature: 39 Celsius
Instrument Cluster: Coolant 91 Celsius
OBD read: Coolant 92 Celsius
with an higher ambient temperature of 5D Celsius we are achieving -16D Celcius of coolant temperature.
Tasos Moschatos explenation RCT
TK_BlackBoost - first, you are now bringing an E63 with an M157 TT engine into it. I know nothing about the M157, but the discussion here was about the M156 and M159 engines, not the M157. Second, your statement that reads "Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius; OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius" which you are presenting as evidence and basing your conclusions on is obviously very flawed as both the OBD readout and the cluster readout get the data from the same sensor in the car. If you stand on the same scale with two displays and one display shows you weigh 94 kg and the other shows 108 kg, would you really think that you just figured out a way to make yourself 14 kg lighter, or would you perhaps think that the scale may be defective?
Tasos - you may be an OK mechanic, but I am afraid I've lost some respect for you because you either don't understand basic physics, or are involved in the design / production / manufacture / sale of these aftermarket thermostats and have an interest in selling them.
If you tell me that the size of the thermostat opening on the aftermarket thermostats is larger and that they have a higher coolant flow rate than the OEM thermostats when they are fully open, I'll accept that despite the fact that no M165 or 159 engine has *EVER* been shown to suffer from coolant overheating unless AMG factory mechanics, Mercedes Benz North America and Mercedes-AMG Motorsport Customer Racing are all lying to us (and I have personally seen telemetry data from CRP Racing and DXDT Racing who ran 3 AMG GT3s all over North America at some pretty hot ambient temperatures and none of them have ever shown an issue with coolant temps).
If you continue to insist that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature vs. one that opens at a higher temperature is somehow going to magically lower the engine temperature when the coolant temperature is higher than the temperatures at which both of those thermostats fully open and they have the same size opening and thus flow rate, then I am afraid it only proves why you are a mechanic and I am an engineer seeing as you felt it appropriate to point that out in your video reply. And, Canada is not as cold as you think it is... well, maybe in the winter, but not in the summer, and furthermore, if you spend a weekend south of the border at COTA, VIR or Sebring in middle of summer, I can guarantee you that it is not any cooler than it would be anywhere in Greece.
Cheers.
#27
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Possibly, even likely yes. The problem is that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature will not drop the coolant temperature at all. You do know what the thermostat does, right? It doesn't regulate the engine temperature - it only allows the engine to warm up quicker while it is closed.
#28
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Second, your statement that reads "Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius; OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius" which you are presenting as evidence and basing your conclusions on is obviously very flawed as both the OBD readout and the cluster readout get the data from the same sensor in the car.
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Tasosmos2 (05-31-2021)
#29
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Possibly, even likely yes. The problem is that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature will not drop the coolant temperature at all. You do know what the thermostat does, right? It doesn't regulate the engine temperature - it only allows the engine to warm up quicker while it is closed.
#30
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The sensor in block, which is used for engine management, is not what's displayed in the dash. See my edited post (https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post8347320) with some datalogging. The dash temp would display in the 92-94°C range.
At any rate - WHATEVER sensor(s) the telemetry data is being pulled from on the AMG GT3 race cars, they do not indicate that the cars are ever running hot. Neither does your data except for when you had a portion of your radiator blocked.
They all run in the 105-110 C range regardless of ambient temperatures.
#31
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#32
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You are now going to make me reach out to Mercedes-AMG Germany to find out what sensors are used for the dash temp and OBD temp readouts.
At any rate - WHATEVER sensor(s) the telemetry data is being pulled from on the AMG GT3 race cars, they do not indicate that the cars are ever running hot. Neither does your data except for when you had a portion of your radiator blocked.
They all run in the 105-110 C range regardless of ambient temperatures.
At any rate - WHATEVER sensor(s) the telemetry data is being pulled from on the AMG GT3 race cars, they do not indicate that the cars are ever running hot. Neither does your data except for when you had a portion of your radiator blocked.
They all run in the 105-110 C range regardless of ambient temperatures.
The OBDII temp comes from the sensor in the block just above where the thermostat housing is.
#33
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The engine being warmed up is controled by the thermostat. My car runs 10to15c cooler than stock file
#34
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I don’t know why it’s hard to understand, the thermostat simply changes the temperature at which the coolant begins to flow to the radiator and begin cooling before entering the engine. It doesn’t cool or affect the cooling in any way. The only way it can is if it was to construct flow at a pretty meaningful rate. Having it open at 10,15,55 or all the time doesn’t in any way affect the overall cooling of the engine it only allows the coolant to begin cooling in the radiator sooner in relation to engine operating temperature.
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Diabolis (05-31-2021)
#35
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I don’t know why it’s hard to understand, the thermostat simply changes the temperature at which the coolant begins to flow to the radiator and begin cooling before entering the engine. It doesn’t cool or affect the cooling in any way. The only way it can is if it was to construct flow at a pretty meaningful rate.
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Tasosmos2 (05-31-2021)
#36
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LOL.
TK_BlackBoost - first, you are now bringing an E63 with an M157 TT engine into it. I know nothing about the M157, but the discussion here was about the M156 and M159 engines, not the M157. Second, your statement that reads "Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius; OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius" which you are presenting as evidence and basing your conclusions on is obviously very flawed as both the OBD readout and the cluster readout get the data from the same sensor in the car. If you stand on the same scale with two displays and one display shows you weigh 94 kg and the other shows 108 kg, would you really think that you just figured out a way to make yourself 14 kg lighter, or would you perhaps think that the scale may be defective?
Cheers.
TK_BlackBoost - first, you are now bringing an E63 with an M157 TT engine into it. I know nothing about the M157, but the discussion here was about the M156 and M159 engines, not the M157. Second, your statement that reads "Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius; OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius" which you are presenting as evidence and basing your conclusions on is obviously very flawed as both the OBD readout and the cluster readout get the data from the same sensor in the car. If you stand on the same scale with two displays and one display shows you weigh 94 kg and the other shows 108 kg, would you really think that you just figured out a way to make yourself 14 kg lighter, or would you perhaps think that the scale may be defective?
Cheers.
the numbers that I have provided are logs, logs that have been recorded at the same day on the same car with the same driver. You said that you are the engineer and tasos just an mechanic and wont be more than that. yet you dont know that the display number on your dash is not the actual temperature on your engine? I dont know why you have to get personal here. Be happy that you are engineer, people are happy that tasos is one of the most understanding person on engines, who did as much as no one else for the AMG community. Dont get personal here please and dont think that a degree makes you a better person and or a more intelligent. I was working for the development of Merc cars in Sindelfingen, am I now a better person? No im not.
Some more things here upcoming:
- 1000W plug and play fan
- controller to controll the fan, coolant pumps at 100% efficience (can be done by ECU but then the fan is always operating at 100% some ppl dont like to have it always noisy.)
Last edited by TK_BlackBoost; 05-31-2021 at 01:29 PM.
#37
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I don’t know why it’s hard to understand, the thermostat simply changes the temperature at which the coolant begins to flow to the radiator and begin cooling before entering the engine. It doesn’t cool or affect the cooling in any way. The only way it can is if it was to construct flow at a pretty meaningful rate. Having it open at 10,15,55 or all the time doesn’t in any way affect the overall cooling of the engine it only allows the coolant to begin cooling in the radiator sooner in relation to engine operating temperature.
And, @SRG_C63 makes an excellent point in post #24 --- you actually need the engine to operate at a specific temperature in order to optimize combustion and thus power. Overcooling the engine can be just as detrimental as overheating it.
As I said earlier, this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Period.
#38
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Hello there,
the numbers that I have provided are logs, logs that have been recorded at the same day on the same car with the same driver. You said that you are the engineer and tasos just an mechanic and wont be more than that. yet you dont know that the display number on your dash is not the actual temperature on your engine? I dont know why you have to get personal here. Be happy that you are engineer, people are happy that tasos is one of the most understanding person on engines, who did as much as no one else for the AMG community. Dont get personal here please and dont think that a degree makes you a better person and or a more intelligent. I was working for the development of Merc cars in Sindelfingen, am I now a better person? No im not.
the numbers that I have provided are logs, logs that have been recorded at the same day on the same car with the same driver. You said that you are the engineer and tasos just an mechanic and wont be more than that. yet you dont know that the display number on your dash is not the actual temperature on your engine? I dont know why you have to get personal here. Be happy that you are engineer, people are happy that tasos is one of the most understanding person on engines, who did as much as no one else for the AMG community. Dont get personal here please and dont think that a degree makes you a better person and or a more intelligent. I was working for the development of Merc cars in Sindelfingen, am I now a better person? No im not.
As for the numbers on the display, I admit that I don't know which specific sensor they are being pulled from. The discrepancy here is that in one case you are showing a 14 degree difference between the OBD and dash readings (when it suits you to show said difference), but in the other there is only a 1 degree difference between the two. If they are readings from different sensors and the coolant temperature is 14 degrees cooler at the first sensor in the first measurement but only 1 degree cooler in the second, how do you explain the discrepancy? Do you see the problem here?
Last edited by Diabolis; 05-31-2021 at 01:40 PM.
#39
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And, @SRG_C63 makes an excellent point in post #24 --- you actually need the engine to operate at a specific temperature in order to optimize combustion and thus power. Overcooling the engine can be just as detrimental as overheating it.
As I said earlier, this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Period.
As I said earlier, this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Period.
In stock form with non extreme ambient temps I doubt anyone would have coolant temp issues. The car was designed for it. I highly doubt it was designed to run in 45°C temps all day long.
I myself caused coolant temp issues by adding a larger front mount oil cooler to solve oil temp issues but in turn caused the coolant temp problems. What I did (blocking some air flow to the rad so the oil cooler had priority) is probably very similar to increasing the outside ambient air to extreme temps.
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Phil1305 (05-31-2021)
#40
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Well, perhaps you should tell him that. He is the one that said "this guy doesn't know what he is talking about... he is not a mechanic" in his video reply.
As for the numbers on the display, I admit that I don't know which specific sensor they are being pulled from. The discrepancy here is that in one case you are showing a 14 degree difference between the OBD and dash readings (when it suits you to show said difference), but in the other there is only a 1 degree difference between the two. If they are readings from different sensors and the coolant temperature is 14 degrees cooler at the first sensor in the first measurement but only 1 degree cooler in the second, how do you explain the discrepancy? Do you see the problem here?
As for the numbers on the display, I admit that I don't know which specific sensor they are being pulled from. The discrepancy here is that in one case you are showing a 14 degree difference between the OBD and dash readings (when it suits you to show said difference), but in the other there is only a 1 degree difference between the two. If they are readings from different sensors and the coolant temperature is 14 degrees cooler at the first sensor in the first measurement but only 1 degree cooler in the second, how do you explain the discrepancy? Do you see the problem here?
the hole point here is to show that the actual number on the display has nothing to do with the number on the engine, for us the number on the engine matters and not a programmed value output on the display which OEM did. This is why when you monitor your display you are seing basically nothing because you dont know the actual value of temperatures.
#41
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#42
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#43
LOL.
TK_BlackBoost - first, you are now bringing an E63 with an M157 TT engine into it. I know nothing about the M157, but the discussion here was about the M156 and M159 engines, not the M157. Second, your statement that reads "Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius; OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius" which you are presenting as evidence and basing your conclusions on is obviously very flawed as both the OBD readout and the cluster readout get the data from the same sensor in the car. If you stand on the same scale with two displays and one display shows you weigh 94 kg and the other shows 108 kg, would you really think that you just figured out a way to make yourself 14 kg lighter, or would you perhaps think that the scale may be defective?
Tasos - you may be an OK mechanic, but I am afraid I've lost some respect for you because you either don't understand basic physics, or are involved in the design / production / manufacture / sale of these aftermarket thermostats and have an interest in selling them.
If you tell me that the size of the thermostat opening on the aftermarket thermostats is larger and that they have a higher coolant flow rate than the OEM thermostats when they are fully open, I'll accept that despite the fact that no M165 or 159 engine has *EVER* been shown to suffer from coolant overheating unless AMG factory mechanics, Mercedes Benz North America and Mercedes-AMG Motorsport Customer Racing are all lying to us (and I have personally seen telemetry data from CRP Racing and DXDT Racing who ran 3 AMG GT3s all over North America at some pretty hot ambient temperatures and none of them have ever shown an issue with coolant temps).
If you continue to insist that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature vs. one that opens at a higher temperature is somehow going to magically lower the engine temperature when the coolant temperature is higher than the temperatures at which both of those thermostats fully open and they have the same size opening and thus flow rate, then I am afraid it only proves why you are a mechanic and I am an engineer seeing as you felt it appropriate to point that out in your video reply. And, Canada is not as cold as you think it is... well, maybe in the winter, but not in the summer, and furthermore, if you spend a weekend south of the border at COTA, VIR or Sebring in middle of summer, I can guarantee you that it is not any cooler than it would be anywhere in Greece.
Cheers.
TK_BlackBoost - first, you are now bringing an E63 with an M157 TT engine into it. I know nothing about the M157, but the discussion here was about the M156 and M159 engines, not the M157. Second, your statement that reads "Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius; OBD read: Coolant 108 Celsius" which you are presenting as evidence and basing your conclusions on is obviously very flawed as both the OBD readout and the cluster readout get the data from the same sensor in the car. If you stand on the same scale with two displays and one display shows you weigh 94 kg and the other shows 108 kg, would you really think that you just figured out a way to make yourself 14 kg lighter, or would you perhaps think that the scale may be defective?
Tasos - you may be an OK mechanic, but I am afraid I've lost some respect for you because you either don't understand basic physics, or are involved in the design / production / manufacture / sale of these aftermarket thermostats and have an interest in selling them.
If you tell me that the size of the thermostat opening on the aftermarket thermostats is larger and that they have a higher coolant flow rate than the OEM thermostats when they are fully open, I'll accept that despite the fact that no M165 or 159 engine has *EVER* been shown to suffer from coolant overheating unless AMG factory mechanics, Mercedes Benz North America and Mercedes-AMG Motorsport Customer Racing are all lying to us (and I have personally seen telemetry data from CRP Racing and DXDT Racing who ran 3 AMG GT3s all over North America at some pretty hot ambient temperatures and none of them have ever shown an issue with coolant temps).
If you continue to insist that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature vs. one that opens at a higher temperature is somehow going to magically lower the engine temperature when the coolant temperature is higher than the temperatures at which both of those thermostats fully open and they have the same size opening and thus flow rate, then I am afraid it only proves why you are a mechanic and I am an engineer seeing as you felt it appropriate to point that out in your video reply. And, Canada is not as cold as you think it is... well, maybe in the winter, but not in the summer, and furthermore, if you spend a weekend south of the border at COTA, VIR or Sebring in middle of summer, I can guarantee you that it is not any cooler than it would be anywhere in Greece.
Cheers.
1st
Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius
XENTRY read: Coolant 108 Celsius
2nd
Yes i'm just a mechanic
3rd
I don't care if you respect me or not
4th
The oem thermostat or an aftermarket thermostat have flow restriction naturally
because of the design of the thermostat
5th
That's the problem with the engineers, they think that all it's theory
6th
I'm just an employee, i don't care if the company sell 1 thermostat or 1,000
7th
If you tell me that the size of the thermostat opening on the aftermarket thermostats is larger and that they have a higher coolant flow rate than the OEM thermostats when they are fully open
This is exactly what i'm saying but you are engineer
8th
I'll accept that despite the fact that no M165 or 159 engine has *EVER* been shown to suffer from coolant overheating
I can found 20 people easily, in fact i have right now in the garage a bone stock C63 with 100k km and in a race track the coolant temp reaching at 140 degrees celsius
9th
3 AMG GT3s all over North America at some pretty hot ambient temperatures and none of them have ever shown an issue with coolant temps
You compare GT3s that have racing setup with what? with an SLS from the production line or with C63?
The 3 AMG GT3s when they racing have 100k km the engines? and do they use coolant or distilled water?
10th
If you continue to insist that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature vs. one that opens at a higher temperature is somehow going to magically lower the engine temperature when the coolant temperature is higher than the temperatures at which both of those thermostats fully open and they have the same size opening and thus flow rate, then I am afraid it only proves why you are a mechanic and I am an engineer seeing as you felt it appropriate to point that out in your video reply.
I agree with that and i'm very happy to be just a mechanic and not engineer like you.
Obviously you haven't realize that it's a piece of aluminium which closes the bypass path on the timing cover but sorry i forget, you are engineer, try to watch again the pictures
11th
I'm not in Greece i'm in U.A.E the last 10 years, when you feel how it's the 50 degrees Celsius then come and talk to me for cooling system.
Thank you for wasting my time
#44
This is essentially doing just that as in removing the thermostat. It only blocks off the front cover from recirculating coolant back into the engine which tasos did state but my dumbass didn't pay attention to. So this essentially deletes the temperature regulation the thermostat provides and is always open, again which is stated previously.
The problem with all the arguing and arrogance above is that proper logging with a stock thermostat a 180 t stat and the black boost t Stat is needed to gather data to see where the engine temperature stabilizes at. I do agree that there is no real issue with the m156 cooling system for the most part in stock form. Engines do have a certain temp at which is optimum for combustion efficiency to take place, but that's at a trade off for emissions regulation and comfort for the cabin as in heat for the winter time. Most cars are ran to around 200 degrees to mainly help combat tail pipe emissions. This also why most "performance " thermostats are around 160-180 as your engine would probably run a bit better there and make a little more power from running a tad cooler.
I would still like to see datalogs for the three given t stats with equal variables to see how the cooling system performs and where the Temps stabilize at. Ie a 30 min cruise with logs between the 3 and a 30 min idle between the 3 at the same Ambient Temperatures. Now the idle test would be a moot point as the rad fan kicking on at its programmed temp would alter the readings, but say kick on factory for stock t Stat and 180 for 180 t Stat and always on for the blackboost t Stat for a more accurate test.
Obviously the blackboost is developed for a very hot climate but id still like to see some tests done and what the data shows. Just my thoughts and not asking blackboost to do these tests.
Last edited by Phil1305; 05-31-2021 at 07:21 PM.
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BLKROKT (03-31-2023)
#45
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It does reduce operating temps AT the block (OBDII reading) because of the extra flow through the radiator. From what I have read, the M156 likes to operate in the 102-108°C range. It appears in a hot climate like the UAE, a "fully open" t-stat is restricting too much flow to the rad causing those temps to rise so they developed a solution.
By the look of things, yes. However, their original post did not state that the flow rate with the OEM thermostat is reduced even when it is fully open when compared to their bypass, and I have to admit that I did not watch their two promotional videos. They simply stated that the OEM thermostat doesn't fully open before 100C / 212F, which theirs "fixes".
It is a problem in their environment though. That's why this product was developed and from the looks of it, thoroughly tested before releasing to "their" market as well.
In stock form with non extreme ambient temps I doubt anyone would have coolant temp issues. The car was designed for it. I highly doubt it was designed to run in 45°C temps all day long.
I myself caused coolant temp issues by adding a larger front mount oil cooler to solve oil temp issues but in turn caused the coolant temp problems. What I did (blocking some air flow to the rad so the oil cooler had priority) is probably very similar to increasing the outside ambient air to extreme temps.
In stock form with non extreme ambient temps I doubt anyone would have coolant temp issues. The car was designed for it. I highly doubt it was designed to run in 45°C temps all day long.
I myself caused coolant temp issues by adding a larger front mount oil cooler to solve oil temp issues but in turn caused the coolant temp problems. What I did (blocking some air flow to the rad so the oil cooler had priority) is probably very similar to increasing the outside ambient air to extreme temps.
If you modify an M156 engine (they mention supercharging), then sure - although in that case on a W204 you'll again have to deal with the overheating oil *way before* you'll need to do anything about the coolant temperature. I have no problem with them making "you need lower coolant temperature" claims to the M157 5.5L TT crowd (which is what their temperature data is from), the M178 4L TT cars or for that matter anyone with a B180 because I know nothing about those engines. However, when it comes to any car ever made with an M156 or an M159 engine, to the best of my knowledge - and I am basing this on statistically significant amounts of first-hand data as well as information directly provided by various Mercedes-AMG divisions - overheating because of high coolant temperatures has never been an issue under any circumstances in any environment. That much I do know.
#46
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Let's start:
1st
Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius
XENTRY read: Coolant 108 Celsius
2nd
Yes i'm just a mechanic
3rd
I don't care if you respect me or not
4th
The oem thermostat or an aftermarket thermostat have flow restriction naturally
because of the design of the thermostat
5th
That's the problem with the engineers, they think that all it's theory
6th
I'm just an employee, i don't care if the company sell 1 thermostat or 1,000
7th
If you tell me that the size of the thermostat opening on the aftermarket thermostats is larger and that they have a higher coolant flow rate than the OEM thermostats when they are fully open
This is exactly what i'm saying but you are engineer
8th
I'll accept that despite the fact that no M165 or 159 engine has *EVER* been shown to suffer from coolant overheating
I can found 20 people easily, in fact i have right now in the garage a bone stock C63 with 100k km and in a race track the coolant temp reaching at 140 degrees celsius
9th
3 AMG GT3s all over North America at some pretty hot ambient temperatures and none of them have ever shown an issue with coolant temps
You compare GT3s that have racing setup with what? with an SLS from the production line or with C63?
The 3 AMG GT3s when they racing have 100k km the engines? and do they use coolant or distilled water?
10th
If you continue to insist that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature vs. one that opens at a higher temperature is somehow going to magically lower the engine temperature when the coolant temperature is higher than the temperatures at which both of those thermostats fully open and they have the same size opening and thus flow rate, then I am afraid it only proves why you are a mechanic and I am an engineer seeing as you felt it appropriate to point that out in your video reply.
I agree with that and i'm very happy to be just a mechanic and not engineer like you.
Obviously you haven't realize that it's a piece of aluminium which closes the bypass path on the timing cover but sorry i forget, you are engineer, try to watch again the pictures
11th
I'm not in Greece i'm in U.A.E the last 10 years, when you feel how it's the 50 degrees Celsius then come and talk to me for cooling system.
Thank you for wasting my time
1st
Instrument Cluster: Coolant 94 Celsius
XENTRY read: Coolant 108 Celsius
2nd
Yes i'm just a mechanic
3rd
I don't care if you respect me or not
4th
The oem thermostat or an aftermarket thermostat have flow restriction naturally
because of the design of the thermostat
5th
That's the problem with the engineers, they think that all it's theory
6th
I'm just an employee, i don't care if the company sell 1 thermostat or 1,000
7th
If you tell me that the size of the thermostat opening on the aftermarket thermostats is larger and that they have a higher coolant flow rate than the OEM thermostats when they are fully open
This is exactly what i'm saying but you are engineer
8th
I'll accept that despite the fact that no M165 or 159 engine has *EVER* been shown to suffer from coolant overheating
I can found 20 people easily, in fact i have right now in the garage a bone stock C63 with 100k km and in a race track the coolant temp reaching at 140 degrees celsius
9th
3 AMG GT3s all over North America at some pretty hot ambient temperatures and none of them have ever shown an issue with coolant temps
You compare GT3s that have racing setup with what? with an SLS from the production line or with C63?
The 3 AMG GT3s when they racing have 100k km the engines? and do they use coolant or distilled water?
10th
If you continue to insist that a thermostat that simply opens at a lower temperature vs. one that opens at a higher temperature is somehow going to magically lower the engine temperature when the coolant temperature is higher than the temperatures at which both of those thermostats fully open and they have the same size opening and thus flow rate, then I am afraid it only proves why you are a mechanic and I am an engineer seeing as you felt it appropriate to point that out in your video reply.
I agree with that and i'm very happy to be just a mechanic and not engineer like you.
Obviously you haven't realize that it's a piece of aluminium which closes the bypass path on the timing cover but sorry i forget, you are engineer, try to watch again the pictures
11th
I'm not in Greece i'm in U.A.E the last 10 years, when you feel how it's the 50 degrees Celsius then come and talk to me for cooling system.
Thank you for wasting my time
And, just because I can find 20 people that think lizard people live among us, that doesn't make it so. You have a bone stock C63 with 100k km and in a race track the coolant temp reaching at 140 degrees celsius - but you don't have any issues with overheating oil? Really?
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
After spending most of last season sorting out cooling issues, first oil, then coolant. I have observed there's absolutely no direct relationship between what's displayed on the dash and what's read at the sensor OBDII has access to. I have seen the dash display 94 and CTS 102, then the dash display 92 but the CTS 105 which didn't make much sense to me.
#48
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2007 Mercedes E63 AMG
my 2 cents on this topic is...
a reduction of flow restriction by bypassing of the thermostat will assist in keeping temps lower to a point, but if you've already reached the maximum efficiency of that heat exchanger, you've reached the maximum and yes you'll need a larger heat exchanger or improved flow across that heat exchanger. while I do see the merit in a product for the most extreme of temperatures as a workaround to redesign of the entire cooling system, my racing experience background understands there is no replacement for a properly designed high efficiency cooling system like a thicker radiator or in the case of all of my race cars and friends race cars, a dual pass extra thick aluminum custom radiator. one other thing, as seen with turbocharged vehicles with large aluminum radiators that still over heat on the race track, this is generally caused by a reduction of airflow and essentially things like a larger air to air intercooler slowing and heating the air before it touches the engine radiator which at this point does put the radiator in a less than ideal situation to actually provide any cooling. in situations like this, a redesign of the airflow and placement of each individual heat exchanger is the ultimate solution here. we all already know the heat exchanger placement and design for the W204 is lacking and subpar and would best benefit from a redesign, i.e. like the 44o or black series configuration.
as Phil stated, the only way we'll know for sure is the see the datalogs for varying situations. daily driving, race situations, and supercharged situations. do we need more parts and development for the M156/M159, yes, but parts like these are used for very specific use cases of which the majority of us will not have a need for which was stated. with that in mind, I do personally know racers that would run this type of product. across my racing life, about 10% of racers i've encountered would go this route before a 2nd or 3rd cooling system full redesign to rule out hot run conditions. i am not one of them, but as mentioned, i've encountered about 10% of racers that would use a product like this until they've fully redesigned their cooling system from the ground up.
a reduction of flow restriction by bypassing of the thermostat will assist in keeping temps lower to a point, but if you've already reached the maximum efficiency of that heat exchanger, you've reached the maximum and yes you'll need a larger heat exchanger or improved flow across that heat exchanger. while I do see the merit in a product for the most extreme of temperatures as a workaround to redesign of the entire cooling system, my racing experience background understands there is no replacement for a properly designed high efficiency cooling system like a thicker radiator or in the case of all of my race cars and friends race cars, a dual pass extra thick aluminum custom radiator. one other thing, as seen with turbocharged vehicles with large aluminum radiators that still over heat on the race track, this is generally caused by a reduction of airflow and essentially things like a larger air to air intercooler slowing and heating the air before it touches the engine radiator which at this point does put the radiator in a less than ideal situation to actually provide any cooling. in situations like this, a redesign of the airflow and placement of each individual heat exchanger is the ultimate solution here. we all already know the heat exchanger placement and design for the W204 is lacking and subpar and would best benefit from a redesign, i.e. like the 44o or black series configuration.
as Phil stated, the only way we'll know for sure is the see the datalogs for varying situations. daily driving, race situations, and supercharged situations. do we need more parts and development for the M156/M159, yes, but parts like these are used for very specific use cases of which the majority of us will not have a need for which was stated. with that in mind, I do personally know racers that would run this type of product. across my racing life, about 10% of racers i've encountered would go this route before a 2nd or 3rd cooling system full redesign to rule out hot run conditions. i am not one of them, but as mentioned, i've encountered about 10% of racers that would use a product like this until they've fully redesigned their cooling system from the ground up.
Last edited by hachiroku; 06-01-2021 at 12:04 AM.
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Phil1305 (06-01-2021)
#49
Likewise my friend. If you had said "it's just a thermostat bypass", all of this could have been easily avoided.
And, just because I can find 20 people that think lizard people live among us, that doesn't make it so. You have a bone stock C63 with 100k km and in a race track the coolant temp reaching at 140 degrees celsius - but you don't have any issues with overheating oil? Really?
And, just because I can find 20 people that think lizard people live among us, that doesn't make it so. You have a bone stock C63 with 100k km and in a race track the coolant temp reaching at 140 degrees celsius - but you don't have any issues with overheating oil? Really?
Last edited by SRG_C63; 06-01-2021 at 01:43 AM.