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M156 / M159 Racing Coolant Thermostat by BlackBoost
Hello MBWorld members,
since the M156 / M159 platform came short lately from our side and our Billet Camshafts had a delay due to excessive road testing. Details will be announced shortly, with an pre order sale and production lead time.
Now back to this thread and topic, our Racing Coolant Thermostat for the M156 / M159 platform.
With our BlackBoost Racing Coolant Thermostat the coolant circulation with the radiator is always at 99.99% open vs the factory coolant thermostat opens at 100°C / 212°F.
with an higher ambient temperature of 5D Celsius we are achieving -16D Celcius of coolant temperature.
A perfect choise for people who enjoy tracking their cars, going to drag races but everyone who lives in a very hot environment and loves pushing his car and most important all supercharger applications.
Plug and Play solution that everyone can do by himself at home, approximately 30 mins.
MSRP: 69,00 USD
Last edited by TK_BlackBoost; 05-31-2021 at 11:00 AM.
so...what isn't being clearly stated is that this product removes the heat controlled function of the thermostat and essentially for you old school guys, is like pulling the thermostat completely out so there are 0 restrictions.
not a recommended item for 99% of people and only for the most diehard of racers in the hottest climates.
always great to have new parts developed for older chassis. thanks!
pulling the thermostat may cause flow issues as there is a bypass to recirculate the coolant. what this does is block off the recirculation so the flow is directed and non turbulent. with older engines, the thermostat holds the coolant back until up to temp. it would seem the M156 allows the coolant to recirculate until up to temp of which the thermostat allows coolant to bypass the recirculate function when hot.
Soooo… why wouldn’t you just pull the thermostat completely then? Seems like it would do the same thing, no?
alot of times when you pull the thermostat out its a big gaping hole to let coolant pass through. When you do this the water actually can flow too fast and not allow sufficient time to be cooled in the radiator. (Ever hear of guys overheating in the dead middle of winter with no thermostat?) So this is more of an always open flow restrictor to give the coolant ample time to flow through the rad and exchange heat.
most common old school practices are to gut a thermostat center mechanism but use the main body in an engine.
Black boost I do like the design but I feel like it should be still tested here in the west in moderate Temps. Although considered for racing only and blower cars. I think the mishimoto 160 thermostat is sufficient. But as always I like that you guys are innovating and still producing parts for this chassis. I'm also looking forward to the camshaft results/news.
the Mishimoto thermostat would be ideal for the majority of those worried about coolant heat issues. for those who are struggling with even that while radiator is in perfect working condition, the blackboost bypass would benefit most due to lack of flow restriction. if i were to guess a 5-8% increase in flow through the system improvement with their thermostat bypass. it would be in the hottest regions of the planet where a thermostat bypass would be needed. being as blackboost is located in the middle east, it would make sense that their product targets the needs of their extreme engine temperature customer needs.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
First of all, replacing the thermostat with one that fully opens at a lower temperature is only going to result in your engine and oil taking 1/2 a lap longer to get up to operating temperature. Nothing more. The cooling capacity of the system and thus coolant temperature once the engine has fully warmed up remains unchanged.
Second, while the thermostat may be really well built, IMHO it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. How may people have experienced high coolant temperatures on an M156 (or 159) engined car under ANY circumstances, racing / tracking in hot climates included (which, again, a thermostat can not change)? Guess what temperature the thermostat in the AMG GT3 factory endurance racers opens at?
Agree it’s a silly idea. Unless you are increasing the cooling capacity of the radiator then maybe a lower temperature thermostat would be worth it. I seen no difference win coolant temperature with the mishimoto lower temperature thermostat. Not have I noticed any coolant temperature spikes at any time with the vehicle it’s not a problem. Get a larger more efficient oil cooler and worry about the brakes trans and diff
First of all, replacing the thermostat with one that fully opens at a lower temperature is only going to result in your engine and oil taking 1/2 a lap longer to get up to operating temperature. Nothing more. The cooling capacity of the system and thus coolant temperature once the engine has fully warmed up remains unchanged.
Second, while the thermostat may be really well built, IMHO it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. How may people have experienced high coolant temperatures on an M156 (or 159) engined car under ANY circumstances, racing / tracking in hot climates included (which, again, a thermostat can not change)? Guess what temperature the thermostat in the AMG GT3 factory endurance racers opens at?
Can't really conpare to a 4.0 6 cylinder. I will tell you one thing I have seen going to a w205 c63 that it runs 3x cooler and has a way better cooling system. The m156 in the c63 is under cooled big time. I haven't seen oil temps above 210f in my w205 in 90 degree ambient temps and I'm making 706ft lbs and 556whp.
My transmission has never seen above 180f and in my w204 c63 I would see 250f barely getting on the car. my old c63 would run hot as hell and any time with temps in the 90s the oil would hit 250 barely beating on it and cruise around 230 to 240. That is insanely hot so this thermostat is definitely going to help people thst are tracking the car.. lol you can't even beat on a stock w204 on a track for less than 3 min before it goes into limp mode because of oil temps.
Video Clip states this is not to be used in cold weather conditions and not for street use.
What ambient temp is considered cold? Europe weather?
Also, is this suitable for Supercharged C63s in European weather?
Hello there when we say cold weather we mean winter. this is 10C and that you are cruising at 2000rpm. without logging your engine you never know what is happening to it. its the same to tune a car with a flash tune that you flahsed on 1000 different cars to make your job easy. the ideal temperature is 80C-90C for those engines. Since we are not able to log the cars that are on European / US streets. we cant say anything to the temperatures where it is going to be good for this countries.
The easiest to have a controller OBD reader that shows you your exact temperatures not the one from the dashboard. Since dashboard will show you 90DC but in your logs you will have 100 105DC.
Especially for the M156 SC it is a very good add on, since those engines suffer a lot from the heat.
This is a plug and play installation within 30 mins done. can be installed seasonal for the summer and removed winter. Perfect for people who go to drag race, track days.
to all other questions i will take tomorrow the time with Tasos and reply to your questions. Thanks for a lot of questions its always good to do some eduction and we all learn more from the cars that we are driving.
Last edited by TK_BlackBoost; 05-30-2021 at 03:27 PM.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Originally Posted by skratch77
Can't really conpare to a 4.0 6 cylinder. I will tell you one thing I have seen going to a w205 c63 that it runs 3x cooler and has a way better cooling system. The m156 in the c63 is under cooled big time. I haven't seen oil temps above 210f in my w205 in 90 degree ambient temps and I'm making 706ft lbs and 556whp.
My transmission has never seen above 180f and in my w204 c63 I would see 250f barely getting on the car. my old c63 would run hot as hell and any time with temps in the 90s the oil would hit 250 barely beating on it and cruise around 230 to 240. That is insanely hot so this thermostat is definitely going to help people thst are tracking the car.. lol you can't even beat on a stock w204 on a track for less than 3 min before it goes into limp mode because of oil temps.
You are confusing oil temps with coolant temps. While the W204 C63s (esp. the FL MCT models with the wet clutch) are notorious for overheating the OIL, the COOLANT temperature has never been an issue on any car I've ever driven or been in. Same goes for any M159 engined SLS (not many of those on track) or for that matter the three AMG GT3s I've seen telemetry from even when running in 40C ambient.
And, EVEN IF the coolant was running too hot (which it isn't), a different thermostat is not going to solve anything. Only a larger radiator would result in lower coolant temperatures. As I said, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Can't really conpare to a 4.0 6 cylinder. I will tell you one thing I have seen going to a w205 c63 that it runs 3x cooler and has a way better cooling system. The m156 in the c63 is under cooled big time. I haven't seen oil temps above 210f in my w205 in 90 degree ambient temps and I'm making 706ft lbs and 556whp.
My transmission has never seen above 180f and in my w204 c63 I would see 250f barely getting on the car. my old c63 would run hot as hell and any time with temps in the 90s the oil would hit 250 barely beating on it and cruise around 230 to 240. That is insanely hot so this thermostat is definitely going to help people thst are tracking the car.. lol you can't even beat on a stock w204 on a track for less than 3 min before it goes into limp mode because of oil temps.
how were you tracking your trans temp in w204? Thanks
You are confusing oil temps with coolant temps. While the W204 C63s (esp. the FL MCT models with the wet clutch) are notorious for overheating the OIL, the COOLANT temperature has never been an issue on any car I've ever driven or been in. Same goes for any M159 engined SLS (not many of those on track) or for that matter the three AMG GT3s I've seen telemetry from even when running in 40C ambient.
And, EVEN IF the coolant was running too hot (which it isn't), a different thermostat is not going to solve anything. Only a larger radiator would result in lower coolant temperatures. As I said, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Not confusing them. If you can drop the coolant 15 degrees the oil will also drop.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Originally Posted by skratch77
Not confusing them. If you can drop the coolant 15 degrees the oil will also drop.
It might or it might not... but the point is that A LOWER TEMP THERMOSTAT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURES AT ALL ONCE THE ENGINE HAS FULLY WARMED UP. In other words, if for a given ambient air temp and air flow through the rad the engine coolant is at 105C, it makes no difference whether the thermostat fully opens at 80C, 87C or 100C. Which part of my statement do you disagree with?
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
+1 on the Torque app and a good OBDII sender. I get real-time trans temps on my C5Z track rat using an OBDLink MX+ and an old Samsung tablet (you just need to know the HEX PID code). I've never tried it on the Merc but it might also work.
How may people have experienced high coolant temperatures on an M156 (or 159) engined car under ANY circumstances, racing / tracking in hot climates included (which, again, a thermostat can not change)? Guess what temperature the thermostat in the AMG GT3 factory endurance racers opens at?
Not until I added additional coolers in front of the rad but cutting holes in the bumper, beam, grille and hood helps with that though.
I did toss in a 180°F thermostat thinking it could potentially help on the cooldown lap. Probably a waste but "while I was in there" ya know...
Edit... Re: Tasos video comments to this post (likely just lost in translation)
I have a much larger oil cooler in the bottom opening which solved oil temp issues. BUT, after adding a shroud to force air INTO the oil cooler it impeded air flow to the bottom of the radiator (there is NO ac condenser btw). Logging below, the car went into limp mode once the coolant got over 114°C and I believe that was a mid 20°C day.
It's a trailered track only car no longer on public roads so I opened additional air paths TO the radiator through the bumper and beam and added hood vents to compensate which solved the coolant temp issues.
Since it's relevant to this thread, here's some data logs with the OE thermostat on a 17°C day vs a 27°C day.
I now have a Mishimoto 180°F thermostat which I will also data log.
I live in Canada but this is not a street driven vehicle and typically see anywhere from 15°C to 35°C ambient temps where it's mostly in the mid to high 20s.
Since my vehicle is track only, maybe this Racing Coolant Thermostat by BlackBoost could be beneficial for my application?
You are confusing oil temps with coolant temps. While the W204 C63s (esp. the FL MCT models with the wet clutch) are notorious for overheating the OIL, the COOLANT temperature has never been an issue on any car I've ever driven or been in. Same goes for any M159 engined SLS (not many of those on track) or for that matter the three AMG GT3s I've seen telemetry from even when running in 40C ambient.
And, EVEN IF the coolant was running too hot (which it isn't), a different thermostat is not going to solve anything. Only a larger radiator would result in lower coolant temperatures. As I said, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
There is nothing to add to this.
Originally Posted by Diabolis
First of all, replacing the thermostat with one that fully opens at a lower temperature is only going to result in your engine and oil taking 1/2 a lap longer to get up to operating temperature. Nothing more. The cooling capacity of the system and thus coolant temperature once the engine has fully warmed up remains unchanged.
Second, while the thermostat may be really well built, IMHO it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. How may people have experienced high coolant temperatures on an M156 (or 159) engined car under ANY circumstances, racing / tracking in hot climates included (which, again, a thermostat can not change)? Guess what temperature the thermostat in the AMG GT3 factory endurance racers opens at?
Same here.
Originally Posted by Diabolis
It might or it might not... but the point is that A LOWER TEMP THERMOSTAT IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT ENGINE COOLANT TEMPERATURES AT ALL ONCE THE ENGINE HAS FULLY WARMED UP. In other words, if for a given ambient air temp and air flow through the rad the engine coolant is at 105C, it makes no difference whether the thermostat fully opens at 80C, 87C or 100C. Which part of my statement do you disagree with?
Rarely have I read such good posts.
Bigger water cooler, okay... Although the M156 has absolutely no water temperature problems. Even at 95 degrees fahrenheit air temperature and 30 min full throttle on the race track there were no problems with the water temperature.
Oil temperature is the problem.
If you're revising the engine and you need a new thermostat anyway because it's defective, okay ...
But as an upgrade? Nope.
Edit:
Just saw Taso's video...
Surely the thermostat has its justification if you want to drive a rally at the equator. But when I, as a C63 M156 owner, look at my water and oil temperatures after a stint on the race track, I immediately know what I have to work on ...
If you then drive at night in low temperatures, the car takes far too long to come up to temperature. For a car that is driven exclusively on the track or above 45 degrees Celsius all the time, okay.
In 90% of all other cases it has more disadvantages than advantages.
The thermostat is a compromise to achieve the optimum combustion temperature and operating temperature. And that in all situations.
If you live in an area where the temperatures are extremely hot and you demand everything from the engine, the thing is probably justified.
I think a better compromise would actually be a thermostat that opens a little earlier and does not open permanently.
Bigger water cooler, okay... Although the M156 has absolutely no water temperature problems. Even at 95 degrees fahrenheit air temperature and 30 min full throttle on the race track there were no problems with the water temperature.
Oil temperature is the problem.
If you're revising the engine and you need a new thermostat anyway because it's defective, okay ...
But as an upgrade? Nope.
Dude dropping water running through the engine block by 15 degrees will lower oil temps.
05-26-2021, 11:46 AM
