Mahhhtin

2009 C63 AMG was at a mechanics shop getting the supercharger pulled off of it and having stock intake installed. They noticed the heads were warped too, so they went ahead and fixed that issue. The car sat there for about 5 months before they started all this work. When they took off the supercharger, the mechanic also stated the timing on the engine was off, and readjusted the timing to where it supposedly needed to be. After installing the stock intake manifold, mechanic stated the car was running ok (parked). Mechanic stated that he gave the car two good revs, and the car sounded crisp. Then, Mechanic stated smoke started coming out of the car, and oil was shooting everywhere coming from the valve covers. Mechanic then stated there was too much crank pressure causing all of this, and that the rings were ruined previously due to too much pressure from the supercharger. Mechanic states the sleeves are ruined, which will cost about $3300 to repair, or for me to get a new motor. What are my options here? Am I able to have them file a claim with their insurance and have the car repaired? I still owe them $1200 for the the work for making the car stock again by removing the supercharger

Also, if someone can please explain what might have caused this to happen, if it was the work the shop did, etc, that would be great.

C63AMGeez

Sounds like a ****ty mechanic, where is this shop located? If in the states I’d get the BAR involved and file a lawsuit if I brought my working AMG in there only to be told I need an engine at the end of the day. You’re entitled to all of their diagnostic specs as to how they went from a warped head, to timing being off, and then worn rings. Just sounds like a bunch of bogus and inexperienced mechanics unless you got over 200k abused miles on that thing.

Mahhhtin

The shop is located in Houston Texas. The car only has 45k miles, and had the supercharger on it for about 5k miles

deadlyvt

Why were you taking the supercharger off? Shady shop for sure if they advice to surface heads, then the timing going is off? The heads coming off would require retiming the engine anyways…. And the rings/crank issue would have been present with the supercharger and would have been worse with the added air from the supercharger coming through. Both issues should have been found prior to doing any work and if they only appeared after yeah it’s would be a shop not knowing what they are doing

Mahhhtin

The car was misfiring at high rpm, they could not pinpoint the problem, so decided to take the supercharger off and see if it fixed the issue. The shop is saying because the heads were so warped, the car wasn't able to have too much pressure and blow up like it did earlier, and that after surfacing the heads, it caused all the pressure to build up and that is what ultimately caused it to blow up. As well as the shop claiming the supercharger damaged the rings but the motor only has 45k miles

The Machinist

I think you need to get a second opinion.

The M156 doesn’t have replaceable sleeves. The cylinder walls are coated with a very thin layer of something similar to HVOF, which is about as hard as Tungsten Carbide. The carbide can be ground out and resprayed, but it’ll cost about $1000 per hole to finish grind, if you can find a machine shop with the right machines and willing to do it.

My guess is that the PCV is blocked and/or not plumbed up correctly causing crank pressure to build. But anything is possible I guess considering that this individual had the heads off.

roadtalontsi

my guess is they are full of crap, and have been the entire time. Get your car out of there ASAP. You dont remove a supercharger and just decide the heads are warped. Warped heads cause over heating, coolant consumption etc... So if that wasn't happening then that wasn't an issue. When heads are removed cam timing must be set, so sounds like they didn't set it right, and no all of a sudden it leaks from everywhere and has excessive crank pressure lol. But with a supercharger on it, it didn't have any leaks. Yeaaaaaa ok. seems legit.

Mahhhtin

Yeah the car was never overheating or having coolant issues. They claimed to notice they were warped after removing the supercharger. So what you're saying is, them not setting the timing right caused the excessive crank pressure? And no, there were zero leaks anywhere for oil. Only codes I was getting beforehand were lean codes on multiple cylinders. I'm not too mechanically inclined which is why I'm looking for answers so I can defend my claim if I have to take them to court. I'm hoping they do the right thing and put the repair on their insurance

The Machinist

I think you can plan on a lawsuit. Unfortunately, anything you get here would be inadmissible and totally useless.

You need to tell them to cease and desist any further activity with your car in writing.

You need to collect your car and take it to a reputable Indy shop to get someone who knows what’s going on to look at it and determine exactly what happened. You need their words in writing for it to hold up in court. You need to save every written word of exchange between you and the shop that messed your car up.

Timing would not have contributed to crank case pressure, or if it did, it would have had to be so far out that you’d have much more serious problems, and it wouldn’t have run at all.

Also, you can’t “notice” a head is warped simply by looking at it. You need a precision straight edge and precision measuring equipment such as a feeler gauge, etc...

If a head is bad enough to be warped just at a sideways glance, it would not have been something that was a surprise. You’d have known something was ****ed up.

I think they ****ed your timing up, smashed a bunch of valves, and took the heads off to fix it while “fixing the warpage that they conveniently discovered in passing.”

If the smash was bad enough, it would have damaged the cylinder walls to the point of causing blow by and excessive crank case pressure, which they would have discovered after putting it back together having hoped for the best.

IMO, they owe you an engine.

Mahhhtin

I really appreciate your input, thanks. Any idea what would have caused the crank pressure to increase so much? Is what they're saying about the damaged rings from the supercharger possibly true?

Mahhhtin

Text message from my mechanic, if anyone can vouch saying this is what really caused the issues that would be great. I asked if putting a new block would fix the issue.

"If we were to put a used engine in it yes. Basically what happened is the super charger caused a lot of internal damage that didn't show up until we started trying to save the engine. Now we have excessive crank case pressure that the pcv system can't handle and it basically pulling oil into the intake and causing the misfiring and also the leak from the passenger side valve cover. With the heads not sealing it was only causing misfires but now the top end is healthy so the pressure has to go somewhere."

The Machinist

I highly doubt it. There are a lot of guys around here successfully running 7 and 800 HP supercharged without issue. With an engine like yours that only had 45kmi on it, your rings weren’t even broken in yet. As a matter of fact, rings that run on carbide like ours, or “nanoslide” as MB call it, never really break in.

I think the only way the boost could have damaged your engine is from a tuning issue. If it was detonating or running lean it could have melted a piston, but that would manifest with its own symptoms, none of which you have mentioned.

I think the crank pressure issue is caused by a mistake they made during assembly, or by damage they caused before disassembly.

The Machinist

I can’t remember or you didn’t mention. What year is your car? Did it have the updated head bolts?

Diabolis

Aside from what may physically be causing the issues with the car, am I the only one here that thinks you have no recourse whatsoever? You installed an unapproved aftermarket modification - a supercharger - to an engine that was not designed for forced induction applications and would by definition make it operate outside of its design parameters. How can you possibly claim - let alone prove in court - that it was not the addition of the S/C that caused the problems you describe as opposed to the shop's negligence? They'll counter-sue you for legal costs and lost time and EASILY win. When you decided to f**k with the engine in the first place, you knowingly installed a modificaion that by definition at best shortens its life, and at worst makes it go ka-boom in short order. You and you alone assumed all responsibility for the mod, and this is the expected end result.

The Machinist

^^Yeah that’s a good point too.

The courts aren’t going to care whether or not the initial install of the S/C was done properly or not even if you could prove it. It’s an aftermarket mod which isn’t OE approved.

Mahhhtin

Yes, it's a 2009 with updated head bolts. To your other comment, thanks again for your knowledge on the subject. I'm going to talk with them today in person and see how they would like to proceed

hachiroku

i'm curious to know if having the car at the shop not being worked on for 5 months wasn't a red flag to the quality of work and lack of dedication to customers this shop exhibits.

superchargers don't warp heads...and burning of oil could be because your PCV was bad. superchargers introduce a lot more blowby through the crankcase in comparison to a standard M156. if you had that much blowby that the valve covers were spitting oil when they shouldn't have, that means your rings are shot or you have a blown motor.

hachiroku

also, to add...if your engine had that much blowby that the PCV couldn't keep up. that is a direct response to a bad tune destroying your engine or engine that was not in the best condition for boost. sadly bad tunes have destroyed many engines out there. there is also the possibility of failure of parts due to to much power, but most people aren't running that much power as the factory rotating assembly can take around 900whp with a proper tune without failure.

Mahhhtin

Hmmmm I did just have the ECU reflashed from Eurocharged going from 650cc injectors to stock injectors with headers on the reflash. The PCV was brand new, only a few months old. The shop is saying the rings were already shot due to the supercharger

roadtalontsi

so the crankcase pressure is excessive after their repairs or are they stating before as well? If it was actually the rings you'd think they'd notice something with the cylinder heads off. I have 50k+ miles on stage 2 supercharger with multiple drift sessions, 3 road course days (yes mildly overheated) and dozens of drag strip outings. Literally going through rear tires every 3-4k miles aside from the drifting those lasted 2-3 runs lol. Two transmissions later.... and motor is still rock solid. I'm in Dallas if you can't find a good place locally.

C63AMGeez

Two trans??

Anyways you’d think the first course would be to check compression and leak down test before pulling heads. Just sounds like they screwed up somewhere in the process and I agree trying to fight this with aftermarket parts installed voids any argument. I’d get more details on their findings depending on how advanced the shop tools go. Whats concerning is you went in with concerns of lean codes and misfiring and ended up with worn rings? Also I’m sure if oil in the intake was causing your misfires you would’ve seen excessive smoke out of your exhaust.

Mahhhtin

They are saying the crankcase pressure was excessive after the repairs, and said that after resurfacing the heads is what caused the other issues to finally show up with the worn piston rings.

hachiroku

what supercharger kit and pulley do you have...kind of sounds like you blew your motor due to the tune.

hachiroku

not saying this is the cause for that, but this is common of "shelf tune" companies who sell "supercharger" tunes. have yet to see one that shifted correctly. the 722.9 transmission can handle 700whp without breaking a sweat and 750whp or more in MCT form.

Diabolis

I'm inclined to agree with Barry (@hachiroku) about the engine itself being ruined. I just went through the same thing on an LS motor (yes, it's a different animal altogether, but it is still a typical Otto cycle four stroke spark ignition piston engine). Exactly the same symptoms - puking massive amounts of oil through the heads - following servicing and a partial rebuild, which at the end required a brand new engine block and rotating assembly. Compression and leakdown were perfectly fine, and even the crankcase pressure was not excessively high. All the damage was at the bottom of the cylinder bores, which became apparent only when we tore down the (freshly rebuilt) motor.

Whether it was a bad tune, too much crankcase pressure from the S/C, bad workmanship at the shop or any combination thereof is irrelevant at this point. With warped heads I suspect that you'll likely need a new engine. As others have said, the M156 has no sleeves - the cylinder bores are twin-wire-arc-spray coated during manufacturing (basically it's a metal vapour deposition) that result in a very hard but also very thin metal coating (about 4-5 mils), and there isn't enough material to be honed without getting into the soft metal which would make rebuilding it futile, and if the heads are also warped you'll unfortunately need a whole new motor (long block). The only way to know for sure what needs replacing would be to tear down the engine, but I suspect that it would be considerably cheaper to get a used engine that is (hopefully) in good mechanical condition than to start building an M156 with a new engine block while trying to salvage whatever parts may still be usable from yours even if the crank, rods and pistons are still serviceable.