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First off this, is NOT a bashing thread. I'd like to know if anyone with the UPD rear arms has upgraded the rod ends and or replaced bushings with harder material. I know of one other member who has also had issues with the rod ends as well.
My C63 is track only that I trailer to/from and inspect after every event. I have had the toe arm ends fail once which was covered under warranty. The replacement rod ends and bushings have held up so far. I now have a similar issue with the camber arm ends and I want to remedy the problem rather than treating them as consumables.
The toe arm end failure may have been caused by the original bushing design. The outbound busing had a flat surface that mated to a concaved joint on the knuckle. The replacement bushings had a convexed mating surface that fit properly into the knuckle.
Here's a video of how much Left to Right play there was in the wheel.
I will be pulling the arms today for closer inspection. I did notice if I rotate the arm off center there's less Top to Bottom play in the wheel so I suspect it being the rod ends rather than the bushings.
Here's a video of the top to bottom play in the wheel.
Again, just looking for suggestions here. It's not very economical to keep replacing these parts since it involves an alignment, which involves renting a trailer. Good weather track days are limited here so missing one because I'm waiting for parts is the worst first world problem ever.
I just installed these, so yeah if the kinks fail and there’s a solution I’d be interested to know as well and just change them out now to save the trouble of doing it down the road
Are you sure that's not wheel bearing play.....the play at the wheel (and noise) seems more than the movement at the arm would account for.....just thinking out loud....difficult when I'm not actually there to see it!
Yes, a wheel bearing would have play in all directions right? It was too difficult to take a video of the arm while wiggling the wheel. Rotating the arm so it's in a different position on the rod end reduces the wiggle.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Spherical rod ends ARE consumable items on control arms at least (the ones on my adj end links are still fine after like 5yrs). Best you can do is get SKF, Aurora or QA1, put rod end boots on them, and hope for the best.
Go back to rubber or poly if you want something that lasts. Look on trackjunkies or GRM and you’ll see similar tales. It is what it is.
But agree the ones that come on the arms are junk and have to be replaced immediately. They’ll pound out after the first few track days.
My solution is to have two sets of these arms. Measure them both center to center to make sure they’re roughly identical. Swap in the fresh set when the old ones start to suck. Not ideal, but this is the life we have chosen.
(by the way, the vendor/manufacturer couldn’t care less, so forget trying to resolve this with them)
Spherical rod ends ARE consumable items on control arms at least (the ones on my adj end links are still fine after like 5yrs). Best you can do is get SKF, Aurora or QA1, put rod end boots on them, and hope for the best.
Go back to rubber or poly if you want something that lasts. Look on trackjunkies or GRM and you’ll see similar tales. It is what it is.
But agree the ones that come on the arms are junk and have to be replaced immediately. They’ll pound out after the first few track days.
Fair play on the ends being consumables, which I am fine with. However, as you mentioned, failing after 3-4 track days is too excessive. My goal with this thread is to have upgrade options (part numbers etc) that can be shared here.
Originally Posted by BLKROKT
My solution is to have two sets of these arms. Measure them both center to center to make sure they’re roughly identical. Swap in the fresh set when the old ones start to suck. Not ideal, but this is the life we have chosen.
That's a potential solution for limited downtime. I think I would probably make a fitment rig instead. It doesn't take long to swap out the ends.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by Jasonoff
Fair play on the ends being consumables, which I am fine with. However, as you mentioned, failing after 3-4 track days is too excessive. My goal with this thread is to have upgrade options (part numbers etc) that can be shared here.
The SKF and QA1 catalogs are full of part numbers. There are plenty of fitment options. When I get some time I’ll go find it again. I think I was going for SKF over QA1 mainly for quality and country of manufacture. It’s a standard size and shank length.
The more important thing is to go for full chromoly with high quality PTFE or Teflon inserts. Get the absolute top of the line (like with my end links) or you’ll keep having this issue. The cost difference between cheap and high quality isn’t substantial.
The SKF and QA1 catalogs are full of part numbers. There are plenty of fitment options. When I get some time I’ll go find it again. I think I was going for SKF over QA1 mainly for quality and country of manufacture. It’s a standard size and shank length.
The more important thing is to go for full chromoly with high quality PTFE or Teflon inserts. Get the absolute top of the line (like with my end links) or you’ll keep having this issue. The cost difference between cheap and high quality isn’t substantial.
I still have to measure what's on there which I will post up here. I still have the rod ends from the toe arms in a bin. I think the inbound end on the camber arm is the same (depending on thread direction).
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to use harder material for the bushing inserts. The aluminum may to too soft.
you know...at least for the W211, their tie rod ends have received some play in them because their arms are designed poorly and come into contact with the body in multiple locations. when contact to hard stationary suspension parts or body parts, the spherical joints/rose joints will eventually fail due to excess play.
you know...at least for the W211, their tie rod ends have received some play in them because their arms are designed poorly and come into contact with the body in multiple locations. when contact to hard stationary suspension parts or body parts, the spherical joints/rose joints will eventually fail due to excess play.
I haven't noticed any body contact witness marks. One thing I did notice, and maybe this should have been obvious. You need to have both rod ends inline with each other so the arm has full swing range of motion. Otherwise, during compression it can twist a rod end loose no matter how tight you have the jamb nut with loctite.
Ever since I sorted that issue out they haven't budged.
Edit: Maybe @shardul can chime in about what rod ends they use on the product so people have an easier time upgrading.
Also, agree with Barry. My UPD arms hit a ridge on the body in multiple places, causing big chunks to be taken out of the arms. I complained about it to UPD and they didn’t care.
After removing the arm I see the problem and it's identical to the toe arm issue I had. The knuckle has a concaved seat and I was sent flat bushings.
Looks like I will also need a new set of bushings with the convexed profile.
sadly another design flaw with all aftermarket arms.
FYI...all W211 arms have been discontinued by UPD. I purchased some new old stock brackets and 1 spare toe arm as the design of the brackets doesn't have enough strength in its design and the toe arm steel bracket began tearing. hopefully the continue to carry W204 parts and support you all.
Also, agree with Barry. My UPD arms hit a ridge on the body in multiple places, causing big chunks to be taken out of the arms. I complained about it to UPD and they didn’t care.
Yeah, if they don't supply me with the proper bushings like they did in my warranty claim last year I will go that route.
fyi, i called them directly and emailed them from their website around april. hopefully they're not out of business? thats when i purchased the new old stock brackets and incorrect toe control arm that is pretty useless for me. ended up using one of the rose joints though as one of mine picked up some play over the years.
fyi, i called them directly and emailed them from their website around april. hopefully they're not out of business? thats when i purchased the new old stock brackets and incorrect toe control arm that is pretty useless for me. ended up using one of the rose joints though as one of mine picked up some play over the years.
May have last min paddock pass tickets to the US GP. Less than an hour away so maybe I should drop in if they don't reply?
EDIT: They replied via email today and are sending out new rod ends and bushings.
With all the input do point out we manufacture multiple choices (in fact a TOTAL SYSTEM) when it comes to W204 platform!
2 Bolt on kits for front re resolving alignment issues. Also for the rear upper adjustable Camber arms. Or Lower inner Camber adjustable bushings.
Both rear kits include extra Toe adjustment to compensate for the new Camber facility.
Lower arm kit is easily accessible to adjust - accurately direct on alignment rack / under load. Also unlike upper arms when adjusting to reduce common inner edge wear it retains "top of tire to outer fender" clearance!
While KMAC Upper rear Camber arms are not soft extruded or billet aluminum but ultimate Hi-Strength forged alloy same as OEM.
Supplied with rubber or Performance bushings designed to outperform short life delrin or steel spherical bearings.
Would you sell just the arms below with performance bushings?
Hi Yes can provide Camber arms without “extra Toe” adjustment $470.
But keep in mind if lowered this “extra Toe” is provided so can compensate for the ability now to be able to change Camber (KMAC Toe provides up to twice the existing adjustment range).
I installed these UPD Rear Toe Arms (See Above) as well as FI Fabrications Upper Front Control Arms (see below). The rears look easy enough to adjust but it another thing entirely when you are "in-Situ" with the weight on the tires and the Arms retracted. Definitely have on hand the 32mm Wrench for the UPD Red Arm and a 28mm Crows Foot for the outer nuts. It would behoove you to use a Permanent Marker to specify the direction to tighten/loosen for each side, as one side is reverse cut. I don't have a picture of the damage inflicted on my passenger side due to the guy at the shop not having the Crow Foot and neglecting to use my 33mm for the Arm not knowing which way to turn what!!!!! JEEZ! It turns out the shop I brought it to beforehand had cranked down the rear Passenger Side so hard, the guy couldn't get her loose. Thus all the damage done!! I had to go home, remove the wheel and very simply remove the whole arm, unscrew the Heim Joint and put a vice on that Nut and use my DeWalt Hammer Drill with a 23mm Ratchet to power it loose!!! I then brought her back for he guy to dial it in, but since she's still slightly
pulling right, now comes adjusting the front end with Crash Bolts and or adjusting the Upper Camber to correct.
10-05-2021, 08:56 AM
