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11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
Finally complete. M156 Lock Plates.
I finally had a chance to install parts that I made into the engine that I own.
Satisfaction, vindication, adversity....
I designed these with some improvements to the OE design, aside from the obvious- the pin seat is more robust than the OE design which is prone to wear. This prevents eventual sluggish unlocking as would be present in a refurbished OEM part from a worn pin seat. This among other reasons is why I decided to abandon refurbishing OE parts as suitable candidates are nonexistent.
The material they are made from is US sourced AISI 4340 quenched and tempered steel, with high carbon-chromium bearing steel used at the key hole reinforcement. The area prone to the most extreme wear is hardened to 62HRC.
I attempted to upload a video of the first start, but the forum seems to dislike whatever format my iPhone shoots in.
Most of my progress is documented on IG @63machinist
11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
Originally Posted by deadlyvt
Toy are the one producing these for dyne performance? I had a feeling you might have been when I seen them pop up on their IG
We decided it would be beneficial to team up.
They have experience where I lack it in terms of interfacing with customers and doing internet things that I cannot. The people at Dyne are driven individuals with a dedication to this platform, which is something that I place a lot of value in.
I have experience in building things that are bomb proof for stuff that flies, and not so much in audience outreach. Hell, I barely know how to operate this damn iPhone.
11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
Originally Posted by The Machinist
Both I guess?
They are to be released.
I will be taking mine back apart in 20-25k to examine them when I replace my cams though.
Unfortunately, it would be unrealistic to do long term testing of these before release. Most owners will have sold their cars or moved on long before the results came out.
None of us (myself or the individuals at Dyne) have an engine that we are willing to subject to 10,000 dry cold starts all at once to simulate 13 years of wear in an accelerated manner in the name of science.
If I had an engine on a test stand that I didn’t care about I could program an Arduino to start the engine and run for 5 minutes every hour until the experiment was concluded. But I don’t.
11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
Originally Posted by high boost hero
Are these similar to what people have bought from 63 motorsport or are these in addition?
The design is a bit different as shown in the Tasos video. The high wear area has been reenforced with a hardened steel insert to increase the lifetime of them.
Congrats! That's really beautiful, impressive and thoughtful work, but I have no idea how these things actually work. I see you created a port vs an open channel. Is the idea that oil pressure raises the pin and then locks the cams into the desired position? It makes sense to give the little pin all the support it can get with us lunatics running around mashing the gas peddle. I think that open channel would give the pin a chance to rock enough to start the wear damage in addition to a sub-optimal metal hardness. Am I close? Thanks and Best
11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
Originally Posted by AMGSPY
Congrats! That's really beautiful, impressive and thoughtful work, but I have no idea how these things actually work. I see you created a port vs an open channel. Is the idea that oil pressure raises the pin and then locks the cams into the desired position? It makes sense to give the little pin all the support it can get with us lunatics running around mashing the gas peddle. I think that open channel would give the pin a chance to rock enough to start the wear damage in addition to a sub-optimal metal hardness. Am I close? Thanks and Best
Pretty close.
Think of the phasers as a rotary hydraulic cylinder. It works the same as a regular hydraulic ram, but instead of linear motion, it gives rotational motion.
When the engine stops, oil slowly drains out of the phasers through the rotary unions as well as through the OEM sealing surfaces, which to be polite, are imperfect.
When cranking over, the lack of oil pressure allows the spring loaded pin to pop into the bore, locking the phaser out until it receives pressure.
When pressure arrives, it flows through the channel, into the small relief area beneath the pin, which lifts it out of the bore and allows the phaser to phase.
Position is controlled by a duty cycle from the ECU to the solenoids which control oil flow to the advance or retard side of the phaser, and feedback is given via the cam position sensors.
Contrary to other information stated elsewhere, that is the only time the phasers should be locking and unlocking. During initial startup.
The ECU cannot command a phaser lock. That action is performed solely by an absence of oil pressure in combination with spring pressure on the locking pin.
The port is created by porting the hardened insert which is shrunk into the part. The 360 degree support is a beneficial side effect.
I’ll reread this when I get home and add anything I’ve missed.
Thank you Machinist. I knew almost none of that. I was just always looking at these things without thinking through how they worked exactly, what they did, and why. Best
Position is controlled by a duty cycle from the ECU to the solenoids which control oil flow to the advance or retard side of the phaser, and feedback is given via the cam position sensors.
Contrary to other information stated elsewhere, that is the only time the phasers should be locking and unlocking. During initial startup.
The ECU cannot command a phaser lock. That action is performed solely by an absence of oil pressure in combination with spring pressure on the locking pin..
I think these are great heck they are better than 63 Motorsports. But the adjusters do return to home position during operation as evidenced by this map here. Especially the exhaust. I truthfully have nothing against your products but come on… not sure why this is a point of contention? Why post misleading info? This is a stock map. So contrary to the AMG engineers? Kerry!
11’ C63 AMG; D2 Audi A8; 15’ Golf TDi; 97’ F350PSD; B6 Audi S4; D1 Audi V8; A2 VW GTi
Originally Posted by go team
I think these are great heck they are better than 63 Motorsports. But the adjusters do return to home position during operation as evidenced by this map here. Especially the exhaust. I truthfully have nothing against your products but come on… not sure why this is a point of contention? Why post misleading info? This is a stock map. So contrary to the AMG engineers?
Yes, you are absolutely right about there being a home position, however, “home position” != locked. If you watch the live data and the commanded position on something like that Autel tablet I was using, as well as pulse width on a 4 channel oscilloscope directly on the solenoids (like with my antique Tektronics 564B) it continually varies and corrects to try to maintain the phase angle commanded on those tables even at home position.
We’re both right, just at different latitude I think.
The only time the phaser is “locked” is in the absence of oil pressure.
Let’s coexist brother. I still want to collaborate on a project together if you’re down. Let’s do this.
Last edited by The Machinist; Sep 10, 2022 at 02:35 AM.
Isn't that why you only hear the chatter from a worn plate on startup? The pin is not locking properly, oil pressure enters the phaser and it goes away because the pin is retracted while the car is running even if the phaser is at the "home" position similar to being locked.
Yes, you are absolutely right about there being a home position, however, “home position” != locked. If you watch the live data and the commanded position on something like that Autel tablet I was using, as well as pulse width on a 4 channel oscilloscope directly on the solenoids (like with my antique Tektronics 564B) it continually varies and corrects to try to maintain the phase angle commanded on those tables even at home position.
We’re both right, just at different latitude I think.
The only time the phaser is “locked” is in the absence of oil pressure.
Let’s coexist brother. I still want to collaborate on a project together if you’re down. Let’s do this.
I can somewhat agree on this. Albeit partially. It’s a start. Again nothing against the product.
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Kerry!
