Camshaft lifts over .500" on m156/m159?
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3.0L Whipple E63 AMG
I think only someone that is local to a big name company like Comp Cams would be able to get a big lift/duration cam made for the M156.
They would have to bring a spare set of heads/block to them so they can spec out a set of cams with compatible springs and check for all clearances.
IIRC, when I installed my custom cams there was very limited room with lift before having to do major head work for clearance.
They would have to bring a spare set of heads/block to them so they can spec out a set of cams with compatible springs and check for all clearances.
IIRC, when I installed my custom cams there was very limited room with lift before having to do major head work for clearance.
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2009 c63
There is a company Oregon Cams and Colt cams that do regrinds by reducing the base circle, they can also weld to lobes. They said on most DOHC cams they can get around an additional .150" of lift, they can also add duration. Oregon Cams quoted me $100 per cam for a regrind.
I started asking around because for this other import application the heads were flowing 210cfm@.300" lift but 265cfm@.400" lift. The stock cam in that situation is only .309" lift so getting .450" lift is worth over 40HP with no losses on the curve.
For the M156, when looking at the Flow data for the stockers and ported Weitec's i was interested in spending time past .500" lift perhaps .550" lift. It'll also sound more aggressive.
Flow numbers:
Lift Stock Weistec ported
.200" 202 205
.300" 300 318
.400" 348 372
.500" 358 389
.550" 359 398
Webcams says the stock specs are:
.469/.435" lift, 11.9/11.05mm valve lift with 215/213@.05" and 233/232 advertised duration
I started asking around because for this other import application the heads were flowing 210cfm@.300" lift but 265cfm@.400" lift. The stock cam in that situation is only .309" lift so getting .450" lift is worth over 40HP with no losses on the curve.
For the M156, when looking at the Flow data for the stockers and ported Weitec's i was interested in spending time past .500" lift perhaps .550" lift. It'll also sound more aggressive.
Flow numbers:
Lift Stock Weistec ported
.200" 202 205
.300" 300 318
.400" 348 372
.500" 358 389
.550" 359 398
Webcams says the stock specs are:
.469/.435" lift, 11.9/11.05mm valve lift with 215/213@.05" and 233/232 advertised duration
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Joined: Jun 2020
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From: Texas
3.0L Whipple E63 AMG
Yeah, Webcams and PTG only add very minimal lift but more duration.
For a .500"-600" lift setup you'll most likely have to pull the heads and do some grinding so the added lift clears the heads.
Then you'll have to spec out a set of compatible valve springs, check for valve to piston clearance, ect. Also, not many tuners know how to properly tune a set of big lift cams for this platform.
It's much easier if you're local to a shop like Comp Cams where you can take a spare set of heads and block and let them do all of the work.
For a .500"-600" lift setup you'll most likely have to pull the heads and do some grinding so the added lift clears the heads.
Then you'll have to spec out a set of compatible valve springs, check for valve to piston clearance, ect. Also, not many tuners know how to properly tune a set of big lift cams for this platform.
It's much easier if you're local to a shop like Comp Cams where you can take a spare set of heads and block and let them do all of the work.
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2009 c63
If we don't increase duration much larger lifts should not hurt, but of course we should measure. Max intake valve lift is achieve as piston is pretty far down in the bore. The pistons also have valve reliefs already cut. A bigger lift but near stock duration would be like running higher ratio roller rockers in a push rod app, the ECU would have enough adaptability to account for this. The stock ECU should even be able to handle small increases of duration such as 5 degrees perhaps up to 20 degrees of total duration. Roller rockers can even be used on speed density cars, and MAF cars have a lot more adaptability than speed density.
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2007 Mercedes E63 AMG
anything of that size will require clearancing of the head, custom dual valve springs, custom retainers, and depending on camshaft size, you may run into issues where the camshaft walks over the factory bucket, so you then would need custom buckets which wouldn't be really feasible for high mileage usage if done in the way to allow for a camshaft that walks off to work.
entire head package you're easily looking at 8k without yet porting the head. then you also might want oversized valves of which may or may not be included in the 8k ballpark. just really depends where you source your parts. what i can share is, a member who had their head built with custom dual valve springs had a few of them snap and i bet in less than 3,000 miles of usage.
entire head package you're easily looking at 8k without yet porting the head. then you also might want oversized valves of which may or may not be included in the 8k ballpark. just really depends where you source your parts. what i can share is, a member who had their head built with custom dual valve springs had a few of them snap and i bet in less than 3,000 miles of usage.
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2007 Mercedes E63 AMG
to also add, you can avoid grinding of the head for larger camshaft if you change the base circle and do other trickery. changing base circles and trickery should only be utilized as a last resort as it does add weight to the valvetrain thus limiting high RPM mechanical limits
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2009 c63
This was an old post... I did find a company that could get 430cfm out of the C63 heads and the heads will fit up to 42mm intake valves ( 40mm stock ). So with 42mm intake valves and porting there could be more flow.
I checked on the SLS forums and i can't find one post where someone went after higher rpm and more flow out of the heads... Someone must have chased 10,000+ RPM out of the DOHC as pushrods are doing up to 12,000 RPM.
I checked on the SLS forums and i can't find one post where someone went after higher rpm and more flow out of the heads... Someone must have chased 10,000+ RPM out of the DOHC as pushrods are doing up to 12,000 RPM.
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From: Tri citys WA
2011 raptor 2010 C63 AMG P31
This was an old post... I did find a company that could get 430cfm out of the C63 heads and the heads will fit up to 42mm intake valves ( 40mm stock ). So with 42mm intake valves and porting there could be more flow.
I checked on the SLS forums and i can't find one post where someone went after higher rpm and more flow out of the heads... Someone must have chased 10,000+ RPM out of the DOHC as pushrods are doing up to 12,000 RPM.
I checked on the SLS forums and i can't find one post where someone went after higher rpm and more flow out of the heads... Someone must have chased 10,000+ RPM out of the DOHC as pushrods are doing up to 12,000 RPM.
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2009 c63
I haven't looked in years... But from memory not even more than 10 degrees of duration and the lift isn't that much more... To get real lift one would have to clearance the head and have custom pistons. I can't believe out of such a potent platform that zero people have tried it... I do know someone ran 14:1 on E85 and got a great gain of almost 100hp over the high HP 93 octane builds by doing so... But no one has made this thing rev like a DOHC can do!
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2009 c63
So right now i will quote that without looking that the SLS cams are around 214 degrees duration @.050" and the C63 are closer to 204 degrees duration @.050"... The lift on both is under .500", the SLS slightly more... The head can be clearanced for cams into the .600" range and perhaps .700" lift ( i don't know that much ) but over .600" is possible with head clearancing. On a 3.0L i'm familiar with that extra "only .100 lift is worth 30HP, so on 6.2L it could easily +50HP with zero downsides.
A real RPM cam on these DOHC will be 240-250 @ .050" on pushrods the .050" is up to 280-300 duration.
A real RPM cam on these DOHC will be 240-250 @ .050" on pushrods the .050" is up to 280-300 duration.
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3.0L Whipple E63 AMG
So right now i will quote that without looking that the SLS cams are around 214 degrees duration @.050" and the C63 are closer to 204 degrees duration @.050"... The lift on both is under .500", the SLS slightly more... The head can be clearanced for cams into the .600" range and perhaps .700" lift ( i don't know that much ) but over .600" is possible with head clearancing. On a 3.0L i'm familiar with that extra "only .100 lift is worth 30HP, so on 6.2L it could easily +50HP with zero downsides.
A real RPM cam on these DOHC will be 240-250 @ .050" on pushrods the .050" is up to 280-300 duration.
A real RPM cam on these DOHC will be 240-250 @ .050" on pushrods the .050" is up to 280-300 duration.
Intake:
- Lift: .469"
- Duration: 215* @ .050"
- Lift: .435"
- Duration: 213* @ .050"
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2009 c63
I don't know everything. I was around in the original 5.0 mustang days with the small block 8.2" deck ford... I was around when they were discovering it's potential and when TFS heads came out and all of that. Chevy LS really elevated pushrod naturally aspirated power to an entirely different level.. But with a great set of heads and a great cam you could be awesome on a SBF...
The SBF guys couldn't run too many RPM because the "long runners" of the cobra and gt40 style intakes limited them to under 5800 rpm.. The long intake runners boosted off idle and low end torque, but the harmonic resonance didn't work at higher rpm and shut down the power...
SBF guys had a mindset that had them at .525-.550" lift on short durations... The Chevy LS guys "weren't scared" to run cams over .600" lift for the street. Usually .600-.625"... That extra almost .100" lift gave them increased torque and hp over the SBF guys.
So.. Even in 3.0-3.5L V6 engines with DOHC. When they have weak lift cams of sub .500" lift, getting an additional .100" lift and keeping duration the same gives an additional 25-30HP without ported heads.
On the wonderful 6.2L AMG C63 with the great flowing heads a extra .100" lift will probably give an easy conservative 50HP increase while keeping power band the same. This is important because the C63 ( non-SLS ) intake shuts down power before 7000... While it gives more rpm than a "cobra" or "gt40" style intake on a original ford 5.0, if you tried to get 7000+ rpm out of it it will shut down on power, because it's tuned for power under 7000 rpm.
The SBF guys couldn't run too many RPM because the "long runners" of the cobra and gt40 style intakes limited them to under 5800 rpm.. The long intake runners boosted off idle and low end torque, but the harmonic resonance didn't work at higher rpm and shut down the power...
SBF guys had a mindset that had them at .525-.550" lift on short durations... The Chevy LS guys "weren't scared" to run cams over .600" lift for the street. Usually .600-.625"... That extra almost .100" lift gave them increased torque and hp over the SBF guys.
So.. Even in 3.0-3.5L V6 engines with DOHC. When they have weak lift cams of sub .500" lift, getting an additional .100" lift and keeping duration the same gives an additional 25-30HP without ported heads.
On the wonderful 6.2L AMG C63 with the great flowing heads a extra .100" lift will probably give an easy conservative 50HP increase while keeping power band the same. This is important because the C63 ( non-SLS ) intake shuts down power before 7000... While it gives more rpm than a "cobra" or "gt40" style intake on a original ford 5.0, if you tried to get 7000+ rpm out of it it will shut down on power, because it's tuned for power under 7000 rpm.
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2009 c63
anything of that size will require clearancing of the head, custom dual valve springs, custom retainers, and depending on camshaft size, you may run into issues where the camshaft walks over the factory bucket, so you then would need custom buckets which wouldn't be really feasible for high mileage usage if done in the way to allow for a camshaft that walks off to work.
entire head package you're easily looking at 8k without yet porting the head. then you also might want oversized valves of which may or may not be included in the 8k ballpark. just really depends where you source your parts. what i can share is, a member who had their head built with custom dual valve springs had a few of them snap and i bet in less than 3,000 miles of usage.
entire head package you're easily looking at 8k without yet porting the head. then you also might want oversized valves of which may or may not be included in the 8k ballpark. just really depends where you source your parts. what i can share is, a member who had their head built with custom dual valve springs had a few of them snap and i bet in less than 3,000 miles of usage.
