Dima

yeah I am concerned about 20 inch ones. The insurance seems to be a must have.

eatmydust

That interest and mf is a sign of the times not the car. BMW experiencing same issue. that's why many are picking older models that have high msrp off. C43 is too new for that... for now

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

I don't care about OMOE either TBH. I'm really not worried about the wheels - maybe I'll be kicking myself later but it does not seem like it will be an issue.

Of course - still hard to justify at the end of the day.

flocons

If you really sit down an think about it, what exactly is the benefit of hand-built? All the AMG fans I talk to is about "hand-built this" and "hand-built that". To be honest, I actually think of it more as a vice than a virtue. The auto industry is riddled with documented accounts and factual data suggesting that hand-built is actually synonymous with unreliable (here's looking at you <insert any uk based automaker here>. So other than Merc's own marketing, I don't see how the fact of having an engine being hand built can justify a higher cost.

alexwang

Thanks for the advice! I will go have the car checked out should this ever come up again.

W205C43PFL

Hand built is a good way for AMG to separate from competitors, it adds value or specialness or uniqueness, maybe it is just marketing or maybe there is more to it. Robots uses less electricity than trained engineers so that labour needs to be paid by someone, otherwise human error does exist but so are errors in robots, as for who/what has less errors you already know the answer.

W205C43PFL

Thank you for your impressions!

W205C43PFL

At least we get offered the 20s on the C 43 and not just the C 63 now, I mean they do look good especially if you don't live in pothole city.

W205C43PFL

Since looks like people like to compare the BMW competitor to this car, here is a new video on it:

W205C43PFL

Was this posted yet? 2nd usa video review? Sort of? From a salesperson not journalist...

Dima

This must be the most bias review ever. Didn't even like the steering which every other reviewer found to be great. And against his own car with downpipes and a brand new AMG, right.

flocons

There's a difference between explaining why things are expensive and justifying why things are expensive. I think most people here know why things are expensive; labor, material, rarity. The list goes on and on. Those are not justifications. Now, if I'm buying something and I want that thing to be last long and be durable, I may pick the product based on material. If that material happens to be more expensive because it's harder to find, but is objectively more durable, I would be able to justify that cost.

With the hand built engine, there's no metric to quantifiably justify the extra cost (we don't even know what that extra cost is). However, if you randomly selected a one of those hand built engines and put it up against the exact same engine, I would take the machine one every single time. Human error is random and often hard to rectify. Even the best engine builders will have a bad day now and then. With machines, you isolate problem (which will be repeatable) and fix it.

There's no special needle where the engine maker injects "MOAR SOUL" into the engine when hand making it. He/she is following a set of instructions; same as machines.

Anyhow, my point is I think Mercedes has done a great job marketing an inferior process to make it seem special. However at the end of the day, it's basically doing something for the sake of doing something, not necessarily a better product. Merc engines are great engines, not because they are hand built. They are great because they are designed well. Justifying buying an AMG because of the "hand-built" process is irrational by every single conceivable metric.

Dima

I know, right? People pay for hand build watches like Patek Philippe when Timex is even more accurate, they buy jewelry at Cartier, when Walmart looks pretty nice and since it's machine made, it would always look the same whereas a respected jeweler can make a mistake, and some folks even prefer to eat food from the real farms when the machine made guarantees the consistency.

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

his complaints in general are not even on my radar so I would take it with a grain of salt.

The suspension is finally very well tuned, ESPECIALLY compared to the w205 which was too firm in the 450 and PFL and then too soft in the FL with odd dampening characteristics throughout all iterations of the chassis in the C450/43 range.

flocons

You were pretty good up until your food reference, as diet usually isn’t determined too much by consistency. If your point is that people behave like this all the time, you are absolutely correct. I’m not trying to suggest that people DON’T purchase and consume goods based on gut feeling. As long as they understand what and why they are doing it. Be a responsible consumer.

W205C43PFL

Didn't have a chance to watch it yet but I linked it here since it popped up in my subscriptions. Hmmm, I need to watch it, was the video really that bad?

W205C43PFL

Well you can say the same about inflation, MB doesn't have to increase the price, they did because they can use inflation as an excuse. https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...ml#post8756572 also, the C 63 S Final Edition, MUBSA decided a bunch of stickers was worth $36K+ USD... so there is that.

Back to the C 43, fwiw, I bought the now previous generation W205 C 43 back in 2017 was not because of all this marketing, I bought it because it sounds good to me, performance is adequate, and most importantly 4MATIC.I rather not have the badges and rather it was a C 450 because insurance will be cheaper and people from hondas and toyotas don't have to keep trying to race me at the traffic light. The C 450 didn't sound as nice and I driven the 7G, it is not as smooth in my experience and it is very lazy but that was my experience. The 4MATIC torque ratio is also just better on the C 43 compared to the split on the C 450. The C 43 was the complete package, it literally snows 3 seasons out of four here where I live so I needed 4MATIC.Otherwise C 63 S would be on my radar and no I don't want the GLC 63 S being an SUV.

W205C43PFL

Mercedes needs to justify downsizing from six cylinder and the price increase by including this hand-built process. There were lots of backlash when Mercedes called the C 43 what it is and brought back the name when the W202 C 43 was an important car that helped make AMG an AMG and on top of that, it does not have a hand-built engine. In the past, this hand-built process was what made AMG an AMG, it is in the heritage of this company although I am aware there are some very early AMG engines that aren't hand-built. Anyways, back then hand-built AMG engines were on the lower production side, now that they included the C 43 and with possible layoffs during the pandemic, there might not be enough engine builders left to build these engines and I also don't think they are as proud of building these compared to the V8 but that is in my opinion. Ya I mentioned the human error and robot error in the previous post, I said "you already know who/what has more errors". I was implicitly talking about human having more errors, in fact, the majority of car accidents are indeed caused by human errors. To add to what you said, if you actually watch a video of the engine building process of the V8 and the four-cylinder, there is actually a lot machine involved in the process.

Like you said, these are great engines, the technology I guess the electric turbo is nice, the RWS might set it apart from competitors, the hand-built process is just another one that add value to people and some people will like it as no other manufacturers at this price point are doing this, others don't care for it and that is fine, you are the one that don't care for it, me neither, different strokes for different folks.

Another thing is, Mercedes is seen in the world as the more expensive and more luxurious manufacturer compared to the other two Germans, Mercedes are generally more expensive around the world than the two. I am not saying they are actually better but they might be.

W205C43PFL

I guess another thing about these hand-built engines is so Mercedes can really separate their high performance vehicles from the regular Mercedes-Benz models? Although as a consumer, such as you for example you can decide if you agree with them or not by voting with your wallet. I mean, the amg line you get amg badges in quite a few places including the floor mats although BMW is even worse, they get red calipers as an option on non M-Models and M logos everywhere around the vehicle even doorsills as long as you have the M Sport Package.

bishop64

AMG explains the ''one man, one engine'' approach.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/exc...an-one-engine/

Ferrari and Lamborghini engines are hand built too. Actually, maybe it should be more accurately described as ''hand-assembled''.

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to add some more feedback to my first impressions after a week:

Most of what I said is true. The car is more refined than its predecessor - the 4 cylinder powertrain is smoother than the W205. Power delivery is linear and without pause in between gears. The shifts feel sporty without being artificially heavy with a jolt that bobbles your passengers' head. The car can be comfortable and driven very easily for daily driving - while maintaining the feeling that you've just leashed a beast - it always feels special, it maintains an edge even in these more comfortable settings ( this is something I think only the c63 was successful doing previously). Now, I do have the alcantara wheel, the performance buckets and the 20 inch wheels which help add to the drama. The performance seats are unreal - I would not have spec'd the car any differently and that might be the first time I've ever felt that way about an ordered car (this is the 4th car I've ordered).

Everyone I have shown the car to says it sounds good (it basically cold starts EVERY time you start it so that helps).

Driving at night just adds a completely different experience to the car with the ambient lighting, welcome puddle lights and digital light animations.

Tech:
- The digital lights light up the side of the car when turning the wheel about 15 degrees in one direction. Really cool. The start animation is second to none - a very neat gimmick.

- The drive pods are completely customizable. For instance, I have 1 set up for all my parking assistance, can pull up front, rear, 3D and wheel cameras from one button on the steering wheel drive pods. The other houses my driving alterations like suspension, autostart/stop and traction control. And the drive modes can be rearranged in any order too. One of my favorite things is how much easier it is to move between drive modes and making them more intuitive.

- Standard parking assistance features are amazing. Geomapping your parking locations to automatically pull the cameras up.

- Heated seats on the performance heat quicker and heat more evenly than my W205.

Some minor cons:
- The cooling fans stay on for such A LONG TIME. Kind of annoying TBH but definitely a first world problem. It's like old turbo timer days. I'll have to time it one day after hooning the car, it might be like 10 minutes.

- There is no screen for the tachometer that is perfect for me. I'd like to have the gear very large and the engine temperature data up at the same time and still understand where the rev counter is. So supersport fails to have all the data you might want up at the SAME time. You have to scroll out of the gear being prominent to see engine temperature. Sport does not visually let me know what RPM I'm at - like it's just visually confusing to follow the revs - but does display everything I want. And the rest are a bit too, let's says, understated for me. I'd probably be fine with the more basic ones if you could control the color of them. I like to set it and forget on my drivers display. (The main reason I want to monitor the temperatures: I'm not trying to rev it high before it's warmed up.)

- The car does creak in places - heating and contracting plastics or something? I'll report back after the car is broken in and let y'all know if it's better, worse or the same.

- Some users are having software issues.

eatmydust

Yes I love the curve/side illumination on the digital lights on my w205. It was really useful over the years.

I was hoping they would have less creak then the w205

Dima

@alexasa Any interest in this?
https://shop.mbusa.com/en-us/connect...ogin_required#.

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

Basically $250 to measure 0 - 60 in reality for me. So maybe after 1000 miles but I wouldn't be surprised if I never bought this.

alexasa

iTrader: (1)

I am fine sharing some details about the deal I got as well. I got $799 discount off MSRP (I think others should be able to do better). My trade in (lease turn in) had ~$6,500 of equity in it. I did not get charged an acquisition fee of $1,095.00 (more savings). I added prepaid maintenance for 3 years at $1,800 dollars.

The car is expensive. I got a decent deal. Later this year will probably be a better time to pick up some left over stock of MY23's. Invoice is about $4,000 less than MSRP - so there's room to negotiate.

I leased, the maintenance is residualized and I pocketed the equity after starts cost which were about $2,400 including first month. Residual was 61% for 36k/3yrs and MF was .003 (disgusting).