Originally Posted by AV1

Sound check. Looks like a production example, sounds like a WRX of old. Don't know if the sound engineers tuned the exhaust system or it's the talked about external speakers ??

Also get another look as to how quick it is, timed performance runs will be interesting.

Link also shows the graphite car in the pics above.

https://www.citizen.co.za/motoring/m...-s-test-video/

Originally Posted by places

WRX…LOL. Honestly I don’t even think it matters anymore. As one phrased “MB lost the plot”. 100K for this.

Originally Posted by thesaintusa

This new C63 interests me mainly b/c I have had the C63 (w204) but moved to an E63s (W212) for the AWD. I daily drove my C63 with winter tires for 2 winters and loved it. But the benefits of AWD (with winter tires) are real, especially in a RWD vehicle.

If we could get a A45 in Canada, I would make it my winter car with a tune of course.

Completely agree that the weight is a HUGE negative, but a reality of battery / EV vehicles, the driving dynamics are completely different, most importantly the demands on the tires/brakes/suspension when at the track. Looking forward to driving the new one, and have a deposit down for one (refundable until the point at which we option it out).

Originally Posted by crester

It's 680 horsepower with a luxurious interior and all the tech in the world. Do you expect it to be cheap?

Originally Posted by places

AND don't forget the exhaust that sounds like a Hoover and all the speakers piping those amazing exhaust notes. Very high tech!

Originally Posted by AV1

Hot off the tail of the new W206 C63S E performance sedan and wagon, the new upcoming C236 CLE 63S E performance coupe is starting to make appearances in pre production form, the convertible will be designated A236.

I'll put just the one link up but all others have very similar info/images.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/20...sh-coupe-body/

Specifically with this coupe IMHO It's looking good...in comparison to the design direction going on at BMW M with the new G82 M4 & G87 M2.

Originally Posted by AV1

Hot off the tail of the new W206 C63S E performance sedan and wagon, the new upcoming C236 CLE 63S E performance coupe is starting to make appearances in pre production form, the convertible will be designated A236.

I'll put just the one link up but all others have very similar info/images.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/20...sh-coupe-body/

Specifically with this coupe IMHO It's looking good...in comparison to the design direction going on at BMW M with the new G82 M4 & G87 M2.

Originally Posted by places

Good looking for sure but I’ll take the ugly grill and better engines over a whiny 4 pot all day.

Originally Posted by crester

I know 4 cylinders are not as prestigious... but they provide more than enough power. And they don't feel like they are struggling either.

Originally Posted by places

I haven't driven one of these yet but I also have never driven a 4 pot I liked in any performance mode. For me, they need to work very hard to produce vs the classic linear pull of a larger engine at lower RPM. Sometimes it's not about the numbers but how you get there. Effort vs effortless.

Originally Posted by places

True 63 had a 6.2 in it. Since then all marketing.

Originally Posted by Bloom_Phaze

True no arguments there…however, what I mean is perhaps sans V8.

Whether a 6.2 or other, a V8 is still a V8 rather than a 4 cylinder.

Id prefer it if they just went full electric and be done with it rather than the faux horse head at the front, even if the new engine is actually great. Should have put that in the new GLA A45S?

I don’t know…!? I’m sure the car is fun but in no way is that a 63 anything as long as it has a 4banger in it regardless of the electric infused power to feed into the badge nomenclature.

Originally Posted by places

MB has become a nothing more than a marketing company. Everything looks the same. Pure plug and play. You pretty much get the same interior in entry level C as you now do is an S. Crazy.

Originally Posted by superswiss

It's not just MB. With the interiors being reduced to a couple of screens, this was bound to happen. There's only so many ways to ergonomically place the screens and screens look all the same pretty much. Screens and electrifications are the great normalizers. W/o an engine defining the character of the car it's down to the same golf cart being built in different sizes. Just look at the EQ models. The EQE and EQS are basically the same car in different sizes, and the SUV variants are again the same cars with a bulkier body. All offering the same one-dimensional experience. Cars are bound to become appliances with where we are heading. It's just a battery and one or two electric motors with more or less power and a ton of weight. The W206 has an emotionless engine added in addition, but it doesn't move the needle.

Originally Posted by places

MB has become a nothing more than a marketing company. Everything looks the same. Pure plug and play. You pretty much get the same interior in entry level C as you now do is an S. Crazy.

Originally Posted by crester

The C and S interiors LOOK similar but if you actually sit in them you will see there is an obvious material quality difference.

Originally Posted by W205C43PFL

So back to Top Gear's video that was posted yesterday for a second, AMG's chief technological officer Jochen Hermen did answer the host's few questions at timestamp 10:10, here is what they said (pretty much exactly):

A: What I'm interested is, with the switch to hybrid it's going to be controversial for people who love the V8 (J:Yah), was it forced upon you by legislations? (J:no) or is it something the engineers chose to do (J: yah) because it makes the performance better?

J: Yes, if you go back some years, you know, we were sitting there said okay we can do another V8.

A: So you would've been able to get another V8 through the test cycle the emissions, (J: yah), this would've been possible (J: yah yah yah) because (J: yah) we have the V8s in the other cars, that's not the problem but we know that we had to go to we have to transform to the future and so we thought how can we make a car more efficient and giving the more power to the customer and maybe a broader bandwidth to the customer, this is exactly what we do here.

Anyways, as you can tell I am not convinced about his explanation of the team's decision making process but it is what it is.

Originally Posted by WolfpackC63

He's lying through his teeth. Almost everything quoted is bullsh*t.

The W206 C-Class was designed (from the ground up) to only accept smaller engines. This was done primarily for emission purposes, i.e. it's regulation driven. They COULD have made sure the 3.0 inline 6 fit, but Mercedes had zero intentions to put the I6 in any non-AMG C-Class models, so doing so would make an C Class AMG prohibitively expensive. They also want more brand separation from the E and S Class AMG models . Which, oh yeah, are all losing their V8 engines over emissions (again completely against what's quoted above) and going to variations of the I6. All being done in name of emissions. It's the Europeans, they're obsessed with their CO2 output.

There's a reason AMG's former head walked out and quit.

Originally Posted by WolfpackC63

He's lying through his teeth. Almost everything quoted is bullsh*t.

The W206 C-Class was designed (from the ground up) to only accept smaller engines. This was done primarily for emission purposes, i.e. it's regulation driven. They COULD have made sure the 3.0 inline 6 fit, but Mercedes had zero intentions to put the I6 in any non-AMG C-Class models, so doing so would make an C Class AMG prohibitively expensive. They also want more brand separation from the E and S Class AMG models . Which, oh yeah, are all losing their V8 engines over emissions (again completely against what's quoted above) and going to variations of the I6. All being done in name of emissions. It's the Europeans, they're obsessed with their CO2 output.

There's a reason AMG's former head walked out and quit.

Originally Posted by superswiss

It's the leadership, IMO. There don't seem to be true enthusiasts at the helm now. The CTO who drove the car in the TG video can't even drive properly. In other videos the driver was the head of vehicle dynamics and he could at least drive properly, but the CTO even messed up Race Start. If they are aiming at customers like him, then it's no wonder.