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BMW doesn't really seem to make a serious effort at a proper halo car, at least not in the traditional sense. Instead, they tend to offer a high-end but quirky product (eg, the i8) that never ages well. I have a feeling the XM will wind up the same - some people will grab it now because it's new and (a bit) flashy, but in a few years, it will probably be gone, replaced by an actual X7 M that drives more like a proper M car (however possible that is in a car approaching 6000 lbs).
I think the W206 C 63 S is simply an experiment that may have strayed a bit too far from the formula.
At some point BMW wanted to make an AMG GT competitor so two door GT fun, but there isn't much hope if BMW decides to focus solely on M Powered SUVs instead.
You can complain and wish for their down fall as much as you like, but at the end of the day, I think it's important you get behind the wheel of one and see how it makes you feel.
The entire world doesn't revolve around you and your opinions.
BMW doesn't really seem to make a serious effort at a proper halo car, at least not in the traditional sense. Instead, they tend to offer a high-end but quirky product (eg, the i8) that never ages well. I have a feeling the XM will wind up the same - some people will grab it now because it's new and (a bit) flashy, but in a few years, it will probably be gone, replaced by an actual X7 M that drives more like a proper M car (however possible that is in a car approaching 6000 lbs).
I think the W206 C 63 S is simply an experiment that may have strayed a bit too far from the formula.
I tend to agree, MB excels in the higher line model world whereas BMW performs well in the lower and mid tiers.
As for the new C63, it strayed more than "a bit". That's a departure
I know I'm late to this post as I'm a new member however my reasons for wanting the new c63 is as follows: I own a 2021 c63s I bought brand new with 8 miles on it. Absolutely and I mean absolutely Love the car and that's coming from a 2018 Toyota highlander, 2018 Toyota Prius prime and a 2019 Toyota Avalon XSE all purchased within six months of each other. I remember first taking delivery of my 63; the ride was rough compared to the Avalon but the emotion-exhaust note, MCT shift tight shifts, intermittent pops-was something I've never experienced before, and I've driven many many cars over the years. I did a break in oil change and diff service on mine at approx. 1200 miles-even though its no longer required-and change the oil every 5,000 miles with Liqui moly 5w40 synthetic not a mile over. However at around 10,000 miles It started misfiring while warming up when coming to a stop usually on a decel. I've been back and forth to the dealer; in fact its at the dealer now as I type for the sixth time now-currently has about 34000 miles on it- for the same issue. They've replaced numerous ignition coils, plugs, fuel injectors and provided additional grounding to the ME for the ignition coils and after that repair it went about 6-7 months without an issue; before that I was having the issue every 2-3 months. I love the dealership I go to as I know the people there and they are good people and the technicians that work there as they are some of the best in country. Its just one of those nuisance things. I may have gotten a lemon and now its just too late to claim lemon laws as I've just driven the car out of the mileage requirements of my state-and yes I've contacted MBUSA. So like all things nothing last forever and sometimes what the future is and holds is inevitable so for this reason I'm considering a 4 pot 63 or perhaps c43 only because the power to weight ratio is better and they look better in person than on video. I frankly don't like the rear of the c63 or the interior as I feel it lost It's elegance and luxury compared to the W205's but it is what it is and I don't really have a choice with the exception of going with a different manufacturer which means I'll have to start a new relationship with whomever sales person I come across which means it'll be harder to strike a deal being I have no history with whatever brand or dealer I may come across other than toyota or mercedes.
But I'm not sure why you'd switch to a MORE complicated car with an even more highly stressed drivetrain. I would instead get another W205.
There's none available. I put an order in for a new one about two months ago and I was told it's up to Mercedes if they wanna build it. I have a great relationship with two different dealers, one is a AMG performance center, and both are saying the same thing. And right now they are only making coupes with the v8-I prefer the look of the sedan. To me and this is my opinion, coupes scream play boy; however sedans mean business. Also the w206 is a 0-60, 3.0 second sedan which I think is impressive. I'll reserve judgment after I drive one.
Looks like we have some nice alternate suggestions. BMWs.... their inline 6's sound terrible though, and porsche boxter engines do too. Unless they are sitting over 5000rpm it's a sound that makes my ears bleed.(think 90's v6 camaro - or current v6 dodge charger). Jag F-type - supercharged V8, sounds like this is winner but it's not available as a sedan. Lexus Is 500 - seems like a legit choice except lexus cars drive like cardboard. Toyota / lexus products lost their soul after the 90s era - with the end of supra, mr2, good celica etc...The real engineers retired and company became to focused on A to B commuter cars, with no thoughts of the enjoyment of driving only that of sales numbers and growth. Full disclosure I haven't driven a recent modern Lexus but I can't imagine they feel much different than a rwd camry with leather seats. Entertaining and fun but emotionally numb.
I'm happy to see so many of you are like minded and agree. We are tired of the BS politics pushing the narrative that you're helping by going EV. You know like the 9000lb hummers lol. Hondas in the 90's achieved the same or better fuel economy than current models. 30 years of combustion engine technology improvement but not fuel consumption change why????? WEIGHT. They decided to add 1000lbs+ into armoring cars rather than training people to drive. If they cared about fuel consumption they'd stop using so many semi trucks and use more diesel electric trains. They'd stop building everything in china with no emissions regulations only to ship across the globe to you in horribly bad fuel drinking tankers (no emissions either). They rate ships like airplanes in consumption.... TONS PER HOUR. They'd allow more countries to drill for oil locally rather than import it around the globe. It's all a big money game to control your spending and tax you more further lining their friends and their own pockets.
EV's should have POWER GUZZLER TAXES. why not? we have gas guzzler taxes, even on cars that will see little if any regular driving.. Power grids will be hit hard as the masses slowly convert because of government push and incentives. Most ev's do horrible on the high way, especially at higher speeds it gets exponentially worse. Range on a full charge also gets much worse with 90*+ and below 40* ambient temperatures. These conditions massively alter the "RANGE" and most regions see these conditions for half of the year if not more.
We already have full size sedans with 500hp+ v8's getting mid to high 20mpgs. Imagine it'd gain 15-25% MPG efficiency by dropping some of that extra obese weight..
Why was the AMG LS2 M177 with cylinder shut off not even considered or even better how about a cylinder shut off smaller displacement v12. Inline 6 is perfectly balanced when the other half are shut down. Smaller cylinders are more efficient in consumption.
Free valve technology. Why isn't this being widely implemented. Koenigsegg is a genius. There is real promise to this saving the combustion engine with massive efficiency gains.
If apple car play is whats important - why wouldn't the oem consider offering an update kit? The largest emission output of any car is the initial build. Keeping already built cars on the road is the most environmentally friendly you could be.
I drove by a local Mercedes dealership parking lot today and the new car lot was empty other than 20 EQS models. It looks like it isn't just the C63 AMG crowd that feels way, a tech friend is already putting a battery in a new EQS under warranty. I guess that ones carbon foot print just doubled within a few months.
I almost forgot to mention how any collision over 10mph it is required to replace the high voltage battery on EV's to maintain safety from internal damage to the battery cells. Just another nail in the coffin for the narrative considering that's the worst emission part to produce, and lets not forget this will also cause further rising insurance costs.
If anyone gets one of these please come visit me. I want to do 10 back to back 0-150mph races. Lets see whos car really performs. Lets revisit this test in all seaons too. Compare performance and total fuel or charge consumed.as well as reliability and repeatability. because breaking down means a tow truck (more emissions) and parts replacement (more emissions).
I think the manufacturers needed a new product to add to their portfolios especially since here in the US we reached peak auto demand back in 2018. every body that wanted a car had two or three, which means no more new car purchases and no more auto loans.
So show the masses a problem and come up with a profitable solution. Everyone is being brain washed into EV’s by means of aggressive advertising. what about porsches E-fuel or Toyotas hydrogen technology? Why does an electric vehicle have to be the standard? Im not saying the climate isn't changing but countries are still going to war and airlines are still dumping raw jet fuel in the atmosphere which in sure isn't good for the environment-just google how many flights take off in the US per day-I feel if they were serious about the environment and not trying to get an ROI on EV’s other industries would also have to be regulated. Next thing you know they’ll start putting catalytic converters on cigarettes.
Are you planning on putting an order in or waiting for it to arrive and test drive first?
No I'm not planning on ordering one. If they get one in, I am planning on test driving it and seeing how It feels. I test drove a w206 c43 today that they had in stock-looks better in person especially in magno grey-while it's no V8 there is some emotion but I don't know how I feel about it yet. It is pretty quick though and not as heavy as the new c63. With that being said with a tune and maybe down pipes it could be a capable car. The msrp was $65k. I'm also looking at the lexus is500f and if I did go that route I would heavily mod it, ie headers, full exhaust, cold air intake, and tune I know it's not an f sport but when I'm done with it will be.
Are you planning on putting an order in or waiting for it to arrive and test drive first?
Still waiting for the W206 C 43 to arrive, and until then and that we get to test drive those (or the lite version of the C 63 S E Performance, a glimpse of the "future") hard to decide...
There's none available. I put an order in for a new one about two months ago and I was told it's up to Mercedes if they wanna build it. I have a great relationship with two different dealers, one is a AMG performance center, and both are saying the same thing. And right now they are only making coupes with the v8-I prefer the look of the sedan. To me and this is my opinion, coupes scream play boy; however sedans mean business. Also the w206 is a 0-60, 3.0 second sedan which I think is impressive. I'll reserve judgment after I drive one.
Just do know (I think you know) but at least remember that the full 680? horsepower isn't available all the time, I think it is like a launch mode and available for 10 seconds and then you charge the battery to have it available again.
Just do know (I think you know) but at least remember that the full 680? horsepower isn't available all the time, I think it is like a launch mode and available for 10 seconds and then you charge the battery to have it available again.
There's some info now and videos from test drives on this subject describing the new C63 P3 drivetrain.
Depending what mode it's in the battery will not run dry, it's constantly being recharged, the battery itself acts more like a capacitor than a pure battery which is what aids in its rapid recharge, similar is being used in other new high performance hybrid cars.
We know the electric motor max power is150kw and the battery capacity is 6.1kw/h, that's enough for 146.4 seconds or 2.44 minutes of continuous full power output so theoretically you could do nearly 15 back to back 10 second runs before the battery is completely discharged but that won't happen as there's always a recharge strategy engaged.
All should be clear once more people get their hands on them for a good period of time for a proper evaluation.
There's some info now and videos from test drives on this subject describing the new C63 P3 drivetrain.
Depending what mode it's in the battery will not run dry, it's constantly being recharged, the battery itself acts more like a capacitor than a pure battery which is what aids in its rapid recharge, similar is being used in other new high performance hybrid cars.
We know the electric motor max power is150kw and the battery capacity is 6.1kw/h, that's enough for 146.4 seconds or 2.44 minutes of continuous full power output so theoretically you could do nearly 15 back to back 10 second runs before the battery is completely discharged but that won't happen as there's always a recharge strategy engaged.
All should be clear once more people get their hands on them for a good period of time for a proper evaluation.
Yup, I am looking forward to test driving one before I am making conclusions, that said I will need to do it on an autocross or the track to fully test out this system.
There's been quite a few videos demonstrating how it works and where you can deploy the full power. The gist is as said the full power is only available 10 seconds at a time and you either have to be launching the car or pressing the accelerator past the kickdown switch, so deploying full power is very digital. AMG worked it into their Boost mode feature for the track, where the system tells you when to push the pedal completely to the floor to deploy the full power for 10 seconds when coming out of a turn. It needs to have detailed information of the track for it to work. It's essentially tied into Track Pace. You won't be able to make much use of this on the roads. The way it works is in a way similar to DRS. It allows for deploying extra straight line speed for a limited time, except via electric power rather than reducing drag.
BTW, the whole thing is not new. It's been out in the GT 63S E Performance albeit with the V8, but it's the same deal there and I've driven it on the Nürburgring. It sucked to be frank.
Last edited by superswiss; Apr 6, 2023 at 05:03 PM.
Just do know (I think you know) but at least remember that the full 680? horsepower isn't available all the time, I think it is like a launch mode and available for 10 seconds and then you charge the battery to have it available again.
Yes I know. I plan on taking multiple test drives on different days over the span of about a month to really get a feel for it. I never buy a car after one test drive especially after a new generation or mid cycle refresh. Sometimes when buying a car that’s been upgraded with a new design, with new bells and whistles; your first impression is almost always positive or breathtaking. So I’m going to take my time to see if I can really fall in love with the car. Outside of the Lexus IS I’m also considering the glc63 coupe 4 cylinder as well
Yes I know. I plan on taking multiple test drives on different days over the span of about a month to really get a feel for it. I never buy a car after one test drive especially after a new generation or mid cycle refresh. Sometimes when buying a car that’s been upgraded with a new design, with new bells and whistles; your first impression is almost always positive or breathtaking. So I’m going to take my time to see if I can really fall in love with the car. Outside of the Lexus IS I’m also considering the glc63 coupe 4 cylinder as well
I see. not a bad idea with the test drives, curious though what made you considered the SUV? Do you actually need the practicality or you just like the design? If so will the CLE be on your radar?
There's none available. I put an order in for a new one about two months ago and I was told it's up to Mercedes if they wanna build it. I have a great relationship with two different dealers, one is a AMG performance center, and both are saying the same thing. And right now they are only making coupes with the v8-I prefer the look of the sedan. To me and this is my opinion, coupes scream play boy; however sedans mean business. Also the w206 is a 0-60, 3.0 second sedan which I think is impressive. I'll reserve judgment after I drive one.
I understand that everyone has different preferences about things, but honestly I would greatly prefer a lightly used CPO W205 C63 over this new 4 banger. I know some people only buy new...
I see. not a bad idea with the test drives, curious though what made you considered the SUV? Do you actually need the practicality or you just like the design? If so will the CLE be on your radar?
a little bit of both. More so the looks than the practicality. Plus my wife loves driving trucks. She absolutely hates driving/riding in my w205 as the ride is too firm/harsh-I don’t mind it because I understand what it’s supposed to be. also the I feel like the GLC doesn’t have as rich a history with V8 engines as does the c63.
I understand that everyone has different preferences about things, but honestly I would greatly prefer a lightly used CPO W205 C63 over this new 4 banger. I know some people only buy new...
I see what you’re saying. It’s different strokes for different folks. I’m at the stage in my life where I do not like to be, nor can afford to be stranded any where as my time is very valuable to me. Also You really gotta know the individual you’ll be buying it from as a lot of people track and dog these cars. Plus the maintenance intervals on these turbocharged vehicles -every 10k miles is too long. Once the car hits 100k the engine and trans is worn out. So it doesn’t make sense financially to keep these cars significantly past the factory warranty. Especially since the overall cost of obtaining and maintaining these vehicles are high.
a little bit of both. More so the looks than the practicality. Plus my wife loves driving trucks. She absolutely hates driving/riding in my w205 as the ride is too firm/harsh-I don’t mind it because I understand what it’s supposed to be. also the I feel like the GLC doesn’t have as rich a history with V8 engines as does the c63.
I see, I mean tires play a role too in the firmness and agree, the C 63 S is a RWD grand touring, the GLC 63 S is just a luxury fast family SUV with the same engine as the C 63 S. Although not saying GLC 63 S isn't fun but it is not as playful as the C 63 S
I'd love to give my unput on this as someone who was set to buy the C63Se (harassing dealers on more info) and is now avoiding it. I'm now set on purchasing an SL63
my background: I own a cl45, but I've extensively driven all ranges of MB, from a GLA250 to a C63 204 & 205.
The C63se does a lot of things right for me. 4WD is a good thing if you live anywhere above Washington. I'd never buy a car above 75k and not be able to daily it ANY DAY of the year. The hybrid powertrain geta me a few perks like silent driving, access to reserved lanes that save 15min in commute and decent fuel economy. The 206 c-lass in general is nicely build, I appreciate the technology, interior and exterior much more than the previous generation, which I've interacted with extensively.
Here's where it fell apart for me:
AMG promised 30miles of electric only and a 670 hp number, creating a great power-to-weight ration. The truth is that you get a tiny battery and you only get 670 HP at BOOST. The car is 2.2 tons. And you only get 569 HP to go with this most of the time. If I buy this, it will effectively be my CLA + 600KG 90% of the time. On top of that, it somehow sounds worst than the CLA45. Effectively, you're promised a less engaging drive for more money. This setup is more of a 206 C43 + Boost (10% of the time). The c43 is always reviewed as a boring boaty drive. The tech, 4WS and look arent able to overcome this.
As such, ill be getting a SL which is a step up in the "small but zippy" car territory. It has all the tech perks of the C63 too. Only downside is the larger bill, insurance and consumption. Maintenance is the same with the prepaid package
Interesting to hear your experience. Also a prospective C63 SE buyer here. Ive placed a deposit for now and am waiting to hear back more.
Similar reasons for wanting the C63. What held me back before was the lack of 4matic. Being in Canada like yourself, wanted to use it as a daily and for the winter.
Im curious to see what the price will end up being but anticipate it will come to $130-140 CAD after config w options.
I like the SL as well, but that is quite a price jump as you mentioned. Its essentially twice the price of what I expect the C63 SE to be. Have you placed an order yet? Great choice and congrats. Im sure it will be a great drive. They look beautiful.
Interesting to hear your experience. Also a prospective C63 SE buyer here. Ive placed a deposit for now and am waiting to hear back more.
Similar reasons for wanting the C63. What held me back before was the lack of 4matic. Being in Canada like yourself, wanted to use it as a daily and for the winter.
Im curious to see what the price will end up being but anticipate it will come to $130-140 CAD after config w options.
I like the SL as well, but that is quite a price jump as you mentioned. Its essentially twice the price of what I expect the C63 SE to be. Have you placed an order yet? Great choice and congrats. Im sure it will be a great drive. They look beautiful.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
