New M3 or wait for new C63?
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Mercedes-AMG C63S Edition 1
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So, if you take their words at face value, it is doubtful.
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Its not that hard.
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For example, the control arms and wheel carriers on the M3 are unique (they're made of lighter forged aluminum). The M3 has a wider overall track.
The F80 also has a carbon fiber driveshaft (and a carbon fiber strut brace in the engine bay).
Furthermore, on the M3, the rear subframe is bolted directly to the body, sans bushings. The M3 also has a LSD. The bodywork is obviously vastly different (e.g., the carbon fiber roof on the M3, the unique M3 hood, the unique M3 front fascia, the unique front and rear fender flares, the unique rear diffuser, etc.).
Also, the S55 shares little in common with the N55. The former is a true twin-turbo I6 motor while the latter has a single, twin-scroll turbo.
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From: MI
E92 M3
The F80 M3 actually borrows very, very little from the standard F30 3-Series. In fact, the new M3 and M4 are the most different they have ever been from their standard, non-M counterparts.
For example, the control arms and wheel carriers on the M3 are unique (they're made of lighter forged aluminum). The M3 has a wider overall track.
The F80 also has a carbon fiber driveshaft (and a carbon fiber strut brace in the engine bay).
Furthermore, on the M3, the rear subframe is bolted directly to the body, sans bushings. The M3 also has a LSD. The bodywork is obviously vastly different (e.g., the carbon fiber roof on the M3, the unique M3 hood, the unique M3 front fascia, the unique front and rear fender flares, the unique rear diffuser, etc.).
Also, the S55 shares little in common with the N55. The former is a true twin-turbo I6 motor while the latter has a single, twin-scroll turbo.
For example, the control arms and wheel carriers on the M3 are unique (they're made of lighter forged aluminum). The M3 has a wider overall track.
The F80 also has a carbon fiber driveshaft (and a carbon fiber strut brace in the engine bay).
Furthermore, on the M3, the rear subframe is bolted directly to the body, sans bushings. The M3 also has a LSD. The bodywork is obviously vastly different (e.g., the carbon fiber roof on the M3, the unique M3 hood, the unique M3 front fascia, the unique front and rear fender flares, the unique rear diffuser, etc.).
Also, the S55 shares little in common with the N55. The former is a true twin-turbo I6 motor while the latter has a single, twin-scroll turbo.
My problem with the M4 is that the engine feels to similar. they both have a 3.0L I6 turbo engine. They both are going also sound kind of the same.
where in the E90 series. The M3 v8 was a totally different ball game. we had a truly bespoke engine, that was more of a race engine than street engine. It was more exotic, it sounded better, it gave the sense you were not in your typical BMW. I wanted that engine because of what it was,it was more than just a more powerful car over the 335i.
but i guess those days are in the past, and so are my days of wanting BMWs.
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what it really comes down to is how the car makes people feel. Most people are not looking at the technical sheet, and seeing how different the cars our.
My problem with the M4 is that the engine feels to similar. they both have a 3.0L I6 turbo engine. They both are going also sound kind of the same.
where in the E90 series. The M3 v8 was a totally different ball game. we had a truly bespoke engine, that was more of a race engine than street engine. It was more exotic, it sounded better, it gave the sense you were not in your typical BMW. I wanted that engine because of what it was,it was more than just a more powerful car over the 335i.
but i guess those days are in the past, and so are my days of wanting BMWs.
My problem with the M4 is that the engine feels to similar. they both have a 3.0L I6 turbo engine. They both are going also sound kind of the same.
where in the E90 series. The M3 v8 was a totally different ball game. we had a truly bespoke engine, that was more of a race engine than street engine. It was more exotic, it sounded better, it gave the sense you were not in your typical BMW. I wanted that engine because of what it was,it was more than just a more powerful car over the 335i.
but i guess those days are in the past, and so are my days of wanting BMWs.
The M3/M4 cars are still bespoke when it comes to brakes, chassis, transmission (DCT vs. auto on the F30/F32), etc. And the cooling on the S55 motor is so much more substantial than the cooling on the N55.
Now, I completely agree when it comes to people picking cars based on "feel."
The W204 C63 feels rawer/angrier than the F80/F82 - that's for sure.
Hope the W205 can compete with the F80/F82 because despite what we say, the new M3 and M4 have been absolutely dominating all of the magazine tests and comparisons.
Last edited by zibby43; Sep 5, 2014 at 09:45 PM.
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'14 C63 507, '11 C300, '96 Cobra, '91 Mr2
what it really comes down to is how the car makes people feel. Most people are not looking at the technical sheet, and seeing how different the cars our.
My problem with the M4 is that the engine feels to similar. they both have a 3.0L I6 turbo engine. They both are going also sound kind of the same.
where in the E90 series. The M3 v8 was a totally different ball game. we had a truly bespoke engine, that was more of a race engine than street engine. It was more exotic, it sounded better, it gave the sense you were not in your typical BMW. I wanted that engine because of what it was,it was more than just a more powerful car over the 335i.
but i guess those days are in the past, and so are my days of wanting BMWs.
My problem with the M4 is that the engine feels to similar. they both have a 3.0L I6 turbo engine. They both are going also sound kind of the same.
where in the E90 series. The M3 v8 was a totally different ball game. we had a truly bespoke engine, that was more of a race engine than street engine. It was more exotic, it sounded better, it gave the sense you were not in your typical BMW. I wanted that engine because of what it was,it was more than just a more powerful car over the 335i.
but i guess those days are in the past, and so are my days of wanting BMWs.
An exhaust note does not make it a driver's car.
Rant off
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Cars.
Zibby, the S55 is essentially an N55 with tweaks. It's not a bespoke engine specifically made for an M car. The M range deserves a BESPOKE engine. Just like the S65. No matter how much Carbon Fiber they throw at the car, it doesn't change the fact that the heart of the car is basically just a normal series engine on steroids.
The TT V8 in the AMG's, we won't see them in a regular series car. Why? Because they're specific to the AMG brand which is the way it should be.
There's a lot I can go on about.
The TT V8 in the AMG's, we won't see them in a regular series car. Why? Because they're specific to the AMG brand which is the way it should be.
There's a lot I can go on about.
Last edited by -=Hot|Ice=-; Sep 5, 2014 at 09:42 PM.
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'20 GLC300 SUV
Zibby, the S55 is essentially an N55 with tweaks. It's not a bespoke engine specifically made for an M car. The M range deserves a BESPOKE engine. Just like the S65. No matter how much Carbon Fiber they throw at the car, it doesn't change the fact that the heart of the car is basically just a normal series engine on steroids.
The TT V8 in the AMG's, we won't see them in a regular series car. Why? Because they're specific to the AMG brand which is the way it should be.
The TT V8 in the AMG's, we won't see them in a regular series car. Why? Because they're specific to the AMG brand which is the way it should be.
The S55 also has an oversquare bore and stroke.
Here are a few more interesting attributes of the S55:
◦ 3.0L inline 6 cylinder engine (S55) with two mono-scroll turbochargers
◦ 3,027 cc (compare to 2,979 cc of N55)
◦ 89.6mm over-square bore / 80mm stroke (compare to 89.6mm stroke / 84mm bore of N55)
◦ Direct Injection
◦ VALVETRONIC
◦ Double-VANOS
◦ Closed-decked crankcase (4.4 lbs / 2kg lighter)
◦ Twin-wire arc-spray coating (instead of liners) in cylinder bores reduce engine weight
◦ 20 lbs lighter than V8 S65 engine (from E90/E92 M3)
All that said, I too prefer V8s.
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C204 C250-CDI
[QUOTE=-=Hot|Ice=-;6159104]Zibby, the S55 is essentially an N55 with tweaks. It's not a bespoke engine specifically made for an M car. The M range deserves a BESPOKE engine. Just like the S65. No matter how much Carbon Fiber they throw at the car, it doesn't change the fact that the heart of the car is basically just a normal series engine on steroids.
QUOTE]
Not trying to give points or credits to BMW as I'm not really interested in any of their current products but like to keep myself up to date with what they're up to, the above is certainly not the case as pointed out by zibby43 the new S55 actually has more in common with the earlier N54 than with the current N55 despite that engine also being different in many technical key aspects.
On the subject of engines AMG have nothing to worry about with their upcoming power plant line up vs the BMW M line up the only concerns would be the chassis/handling department of the new models if they can at least come close to BMW or hopefully better with that part of it, it's all over for the competition at least for moment anyway
QUOTE]
Not trying to give points or credits to BMW as I'm not really interested in any of their current products but like to keep myself up to date with what they're up to, the above is certainly not the case as pointed out by zibby43 the new S55 actually has more in common with the earlier N54 than with the current N55 despite that engine also being different in many technical key aspects.
On the subject of engines AMG have nothing to worry about with their upcoming power plant line up vs the BMW M line up the only concerns would be the chassis/handling department of the new models if they can at least come close to BMW or hopefully better with that part of it, it's all over for the competition at least for moment anyway
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c63 amg
I'm stilln the fence. I'm waiting for the reaveal of the new c63. Test drove the new m4. Drives great but i want to see the new c63 before making a decision. The c63 is supposed to be revealed on september 23rd or 24 th i think.
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Paul, keep holding out, if its anything like the looks of the new C which I have seen at the dealers, this is going to be one beautiful sexy AMG
