4.0 V8 Biturbo Engine Turbo Lag
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From: SoCal
BMW
4.0 V8 Biturbo Engine Turbo Lag
Coming from BMWs, I have experienced turbo lag and it does bother me. I've also driven various naturally aspirated cars. I greatly prefer the feeling of the NA engine.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
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From: Denham Springs,LA
'12 C63 Black Series, '12 ML350 BlueTech
Only people that participated to DA events or press release would had the chance of testing this engine. Cars haven't hit the showroom yet so I doubt public test drives started. Particularly in the US.
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C204 C250-CDI
Coming from BMWs, I have experienced turbo lag and it does bother me. I've also driven various naturally aspirated cars. I greatly prefer the feeling of the NA engine.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
As above, wait until you get the chance to test drive yourself and then go from there.
There's only 2 reviews I'm aware of where any such turbo lag is evident and one even stated he was nitpicking so it must have been only slight.
I believe overall it'll be all good even if there is very little lag and only in some circumstances it's just a matter of getting used to driving the vehicle a little differently compared to straight N/A.
I have a few turbo powered vehicles both petrol and the twin turbo diesel in the C250-CDI, the petrols have different amounts of lag as both are an older tech older generation of cars, the diesel hardly any noticeable lag at all but it only takes me a little while to adjust switching from one to another without concern
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 324
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From: Chapel Hill, NC
2015 C63S E1; 2016 C450 AMG
Coming from BMWs, I have experienced turbo lag and it does bother me. I've also driven various naturally aspirated cars. I greatly prefer the feeling of the NA engine.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
My wife owns the W204 C63. This sounds like something I observe with her car, particularly when the transmission is cold. This is definitely one of the annoyances of the transmission which is supposed to be improved in the W205. Particularly in comfort mode, there is a bit of hesitation when starting out from a full stop. This usually results in my pressing down on the gas pedal further in impatience and then the car accelerating more quickly than I wanted.
It is a relatively minor annoyance as it typically only happens when the car is cold and in comfort mode.
We will have to wait to see how the W205 performs. Generally, turbo lag is not an issue when accelerating from a dead stop, generally it is most noticeable when accelerating while driving at low RPM, so in general this issue does not sound like lag.
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From: NM
2023 AMG EQS
I guess that's why it's better to test drive the car for yourself than to rely on someone's opinion in regards to turbo lag.
The amount of turbo lag is probably largely dependent on every individuals own perception.
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From: NJ
17 C63 S Coupe
I drove the car like I stole it; I didn't see any turbo lag. The MCT shifted much faster than both the E/CLS and previous C63. The shifts were almost as quick as a DCT; as many noted.
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996TT
My wife owns the W204 C63. This sounds like something I observe with her car, particularly when the transmission is cold. This is definitely one of the annoyances of the transmission which is supposed to be improved in the W205. Particularly in comfort mode, there is a bit of hesitation when starting out from a full stop. This usually results in my pressing down on the gas pedal further in impatience and then the car accelerating more quickly than I wanted.
It is a relatively minor annoyance as it typically only happens when the car is cold and in comfort mode.
It is a relatively minor annoyance as it typically only happens when the car is cold and in comfort mode.
This!
Is what the author meant I'm sure.
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2016 C63S
thats funny because when I drove the 550i the turbo lag was unbearable!
I guess that's why it's better to test drive the car for yourself than to rely on someone's opinion in regards to turbo lag.
The amount of turbo lag is probably largely dependent on every individuals own perception.
I guess that's why it's better to test drive the car for yourself than to rely on someone's opinion in regards to turbo lag.
The amount of turbo lag is probably largely dependent on every individuals own perception.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 570
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'14 C63 507, '11 C300, '96 Cobra, '91 Mr2
Coming from BMWs, I have experienced turbo lag and it does bother me. I've also driven various naturally aspirated cars. I greatly prefer the feeling of the NA engine.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
According to this Autoweek review for the C63S, "The only complaint we had was the transmission’s engagement at throttle tip-in with a noticeable period of lag before things engage and you get moving." This is slightly alarming, and I'm not sure this is regarding the turbos or transmission. It is the punch of initial engagement which determines a lot of the ride enjoyment for me.
I would for sure test drive the car before I consider placing an order. However, I was wondering if anyone has driven any similar Mercedes cars with a Biturbo engine. Do you experience lag? I am especially interested if anyone had any time with the Mercedes-AMG GT, as that has the 4.0 Biturbo engine too.
I've driven E63 / CLS63 and no turbo lag to speak of. on my w204 C63, there is transmission lag at times when in any of the automatic modes, depending on rev range (this is why I always drive it in manual mode). w205 makes this better but does not cure it.
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996TT
This doesn't mean anything.
Lag is time to spool the turbo up to speed to get the extra power.
Some turbos don't push any boost before the engine rpm reaches 2500-3000rpm, this period of time where you have no boost is the lag. Well at least some part of it. Because there is also lag when you're off throttle but in the spool zone (over 3000rpm).
So, you can have a really quick car to 60mph that lags. The thing is, to achieve the best time, drivers will raise the rpm to spool the turbos so when they launch, the turbos are already pushing good amounts of air to the engine. You won't feel the lag.
But if you launch from idle and you don't have much power until 3000rpm, that's when you'll really feel it.
Nowadays with ball bearing turbos we don't feel much lag once the engine is over 3000rpm. Once over that mark, the turbos spool up almost instantaneously (unless you have very big aftermarket turbos which is not the case from OE manufacturers). Manufacturers use small turbos that spool quickly but usually run out of puff at higher rpm. Porsche have used variable vane turbos to have quick spool off and good high rpm pull.
But many years ago, sleeve turbo would take some time to spool up even with the engine over 3000rpm. That made driving these cars pretty scary.
I believe what the first testers say is true, minimal lag is to be expected. Modern twin turbos bolted to a big displacement engine will usually produce minimal lag.
Lag is time to spool the turbo up to speed to get the extra power.
Some turbos don't push any boost before the engine rpm reaches 2500-3000rpm, this period of time where you have no boost is the lag. Well at least some part of it. Because there is also lag when you're off throttle but in the spool zone (over 3000rpm).
So, you can have a really quick car to 60mph that lags. The thing is, to achieve the best time, drivers will raise the rpm to spool the turbos so when they launch, the turbos are already pushing good amounts of air to the engine. You won't feel the lag.
But if you launch from idle and you don't have much power until 3000rpm, that's when you'll really feel it.
Nowadays with ball bearing turbos we don't feel much lag once the engine is over 3000rpm. Once over that mark, the turbos spool up almost instantaneously (unless you have very big aftermarket turbos which is not the case from OE manufacturers). Manufacturers use small turbos that spool quickly but usually run out of puff at higher rpm. Porsche have used variable vane turbos to have quick spool off and good high rpm pull.
But many years ago, sleeve turbo would take some time to spool up even with the engine over 3000rpm. That made driving these cars pretty scary.
I believe what the first testers say is true, minimal lag is to be expected. Modern twin turbos bolted to a big displacement engine will usually produce minimal lag.
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2016 C63S
I drove a saab turbo that took forever to start going and then suddenly, hey there we go. I punched the 550i from a standing start and it just took off. I didn't really feel any lag at all.
I've probably watched most of the new c63 reviews and only a couple of guys said there was minimal lag if any.
I've probably watched most of the new c63 reviews and only a couple of guys said there was minimal lag if any.
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'20 GLC300 SUV
At least 3-4 reviews I've read said that the new motor feels more NA than turbocharged. If anything, the consensus seems to be that this motor has virtually no turbo lag.
Also, reviewers have praised the AMG GT/GT S for its crisp/immediate throttle response.
Also, reviewers have praised the AMG GT/GT S for its crisp/immediate throttle response.
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From: Northern Virginia
2019 Audi TT RS, 2020 BMW X3M Competition
What autoweek is describing sounds similar to how the DCT in my CLA45 behaves off the line. There can be a little delay but if you modulate the throttle correctly it can shoot off the line like a rocket. I don't really remember this behavior in my 2012 C63 with MCT or else it was much less noticeable. Not an issue in my book. Also if the M133 has minimal turbo lag then one would have to assume the M177/78 has basically none.
Last edited by bmoney12; Mar 13, 2015 at 08:49 PM.
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From: Denver
Mercedes Benz GLK350 2012
I have driven the C63 S, and the engine just simply responds. It delivers power at every point in the RPM band and does it with a perfect exhaust note.
The turbos are mounted on top in a "hot-V" design which makes them inches away from the exhaust port, taking advantage of exhaust gas cooling/expanding--resulting in instant spooling.
Here's a video of the engine:
The exhaust has flaps that will tame the sound when requested, and unleash all the fury when requested, or automatically when you place the Agility Select in "Sport +"
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2016 C63S
zibby, The video you posted is perfect.
I have driven the C63 S, and the engine just simply responds. It delivers power at every point in the RPM band and does it with a perfect exhaust note.
The turbos are mounted on top in a "hot-V" design which makes them inches away from the exhaust port, taking advantage of exhaust gas cooling/expanding--resulting in instant spooling.
Here's a video of the engine:
Mercedes AMG M177 & M178 --GTS and C63S - YouTube
The exhaust has flaps that will tame the sound when requested, and unleash all the fury when requested, or automatically when you place the Agility Select in "Sport +"
I have driven the C63 S, and the engine just simply responds. It delivers power at every point in the RPM band and does it with a perfect exhaust note.
The turbos are mounted on top in a "hot-V" design which makes them inches away from the exhaust port, taking advantage of exhaust gas cooling/expanding--resulting in instant spooling.
Here's a video of the engine:
Mercedes AMG M177 & M178 --GTS and C63S - YouTube
The exhaust has flaps that will tame the sound when requested, and unleash all the fury when requested, or automatically when you place the Agility Select in "Sport +"
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C204 C250-CDI
This welcome/great news and well done to MB/AMG
I suppose no need for any more MCT criticism and no need for MB/AMG to go source an excellent non DCT type auto from ZF as most other people do.
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From: NJ
17 C63 S Coupe
A DCT may shift a bit quicker. However, in traffic & around town the MCT setup is much smoother.
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535d
Huge turbo lag
Hi,
I drive an SLS since 2010 and I recently bought a C63 AMG S.
I have no question or doubt whatsoever that the NA 6.2 Engine is far more superior and better in terms of driving experience than the new turbo one.
the new turbo engine does have a very clear lag, and worse than that, it lost completely the milimetrical crispiness of the accelerator at low, medium and high rpms...
One example of, in my opinion, a terrible and much worse engine, is the Nissan GTR either 2010 or 2017...completely unacceptable lag...it looks like you are driving with some kind of physical mail connection to the engine..you press the accelerator, someone writes a mail letter, send it to the post office, a truck picks it from the post office, delivers in the engine and the the engine searches for glasses, reads the letter and finally decides to do something. However, if the accelerator oscillation in low revs is very small, the engine just decides there is no need to do nothing..just forget about the letter...
AMG tried to compensate with some nice sound in the exhaust, some measures were taken for the turbo lag...but honestly, for someone that likes to drive and feel an engine in all RPMs...and like accelerator crispiness..( and I think that is fundamental in a sports car ) the new turbo engine is unfortunately relatively bad, compared to the old 6.2..no question about it...It may be possible to make more power with some simple remaps, but that will only make it worse..I am amazed how is it possible that most people are not complaining about this..The only reason I can understand this, is because maybe most people did not have a good 6.2 NA to use as daily drive...
I drive an SLS since 2010 and I recently bought a C63 AMG S.
I have no question or doubt whatsoever that the NA 6.2 Engine is far more superior and better in terms of driving experience than the new turbo one.
the new turbo engine does have a very clear lag, and worse than that, it lost completely the milimetrical crispiness of the accelerator at low, medium and high rpms...
One example of, in my opinion, a terrible and much worse engine, is the Nissan GTR either 2010 or 2017...completely unacceptable lag...it looks like you are driving with some kind of physical mail connection to the engine..you press the accelerator, someone writes a mail letter, send it to the post office, a truck picks it from the post office, delivers in the engine and the the engine searches for glasses, reads the letter and finally decides to do something. However, if the accelerator oscillation in low revs is very small, the engine just decides there is no need to do nothing..just forget about the letter...
AMG tried to compensate with some nice sound in the exhaust, some measures were taken for the turbo lag...but honestly, for someone that likes to drive and feel an engine in all RPMs...and like accelerator crispiness..( and I think that is fundamental in a sports car ) the new turbo engine is unfortunately relatively bad, compared to the old 6.2..no question about it...It may be possible to make more power with some simple remaps, but that will only make it worse..I am amazed how is it possible that most people are not complaining about this..The only reason I can understand this, is because maybe most people did not have a good 6.2 NA to use as daily drive...
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Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Oldsmar, FL
2005 E55 Wagon, 2017 C63S Cab, 1986 560SL
I don't find that to be my experience at all, but I usually drive in S or S+. Comfort is useless. I find essentially no lag, and my comparison is my supercharged E55, which is just brutal.
To each his own, but I never liked the NA 6.2. It just never did anything for me.
To each his own, but I never liked the NA 6.2. It just never did anything for me.
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Mercedes-Benz E63s AMG
Carlos... Only thing I can say is... Uh, you crazy man. I think 99% of people in the world would disagree with you, literally. If you're the 1%... I think the problem is self explanatory 🤣 but to each their own and sounds like you really need a NA car to be happy... Good luck as we move into the future of efficiency and turbos! Oh, maybe you'd like a hybrid (P1, La Ferrari, etc) or Tesla more.
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535d
the crazy 1%
Carlos... Only thing I can say is... Uh, you crazy man. I think 99% of people in the world would disagree with you, literally. If you're the 1%... I think the problem is self explanatory �� but to each their own and sounds like you really need a NA car to be happy... Good luck as we move into the future of efficiency and turbos! Oh, maybe you'd like a hybrid (P1, La Ferrari, etc) or Tesla more.
1 - A sports car should be very sensitive in terms of the accelerator pedal. We should explore the pedal milimeter by milimiter..
2 - Variations in the accelerator depression, should be equally instantly matched with engine torque delivery and rotation build in a nice linear fashion
Overall, for me, it is essential, along with linearity of direction and feedback from the road surface...
anyway... I accept being in the 1% of strange drivers..but I know clearly the reasons..NA..more rewarding for me...
Last edited by Carlos Ferreira; Oct 20, 2017 at 10:18 AM.
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Joined: Apr 2017
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2024 X5 M60i, 2018 C63S Coupe (sold)
Hi,
I drive an SLS since 2010 and I recently bought a C63 AMG S.
I have no question or doubt whatsoever that the NA 6.2 Engine is far more superior and better in terms of driving experience than the new turbo one.
the new turbo engine does have a very clear lag, and worse than that, it lost completely the milimetrical crispiness of the accelerator at low, medium and high rpms...
One example of, in my opinion, a terrible and much worse engine, is the Nissan GTR either 2010 or 2017...completely unacceptable lag...it looks like you are driving with some kind of physical mail connection to the engine..you press the accelerator, someone writes a mail letter, send it to the post office, a truck picks it from the post office, delivers in the engine and the the engine searches for glasses, reads the letter and finally decides to do something. However, if the accelerator oscillation in low revs is very small, the engine just decides there is no need to do nothing..just forget about the letter...
AMG tried to compensate with some nice sound in the exhaust, some measures were taken for the turbo lag...but honestly, for someone that likes to drive and feel an engine in all RPMs...and like accelerator crispiness..( and I think that is fundamental in a sports car ) the new turbo engine is unfortunately relatively bad, compared to the old 6.2..no question about it...It may be possible to make more power with some simple remaps, but that will only make it worse..I am amazed how is it possible that most people are not complaining about this..The only reason I can understand this, is because maybe most people did not have a good 6.2 NA to use as daily drive...
I drive an SLS since 2010 and I recently bought a C63 AMG S.
I have no question or doubt whatsoever that the NA 6.2 Engine is far more superior and better in terms of driving experience than the new turbo one.
the new turbo engine does have a very clear lag, and worse than that, it lost completely the milimetrical crispiness of the accelerator at low, medium and high rpms...
One example of, in my opinion, a terrible and much worse engine, is the Nissan GTR either 2010 or 2017...completely unacceptable lag...it looks like you are driving with some kind of physical mail connection to the engine..you press the accelerator, someone writes a mail letter, send it to the post office, a truck picks it from the post office, delivers in the engine and the the engine searches for glasses, reads the letter and finally decides to do something. However, if the accelerator oscillation in low revs is very small, the engine just decides there is no need to do nothing..just forget about the letter...
AMG tried to compensate with some nice sound in the exhaust, some measures were taken for the turbo lag...but honestly, for someone that likes to drive and feel an engine in all RPMs...and like accelerator crispiness..( and I think that is fundamental in a sports car ) the new turbo engine is unfortunately relatively bad, compared to the old 6.2..no question about it...It may be possible to make more power with some simple remaps, but that will only make it worse..I am amazed how is it possible that most people are not complaining about this..The only reason I can understand this, is because maybe most people did not have a good 6.2 NA to use as daily drive...
The solution to your problem is simple: sell the car and get something else.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 30
Likes: 3
2016 X5 msportline / C6 corvette
I tried before the i8 from Bmw and I liked the immediate pedal response and torque. Maybe the hibrid will be better. My most important points, independently of the direction of industry, and in my subjective opinion is that:
1 - A sports car should be very sensitive in terms of the accelerator pedal. We should explore the pedal milimeter by milimiter..
2 - Variations in the accelerator depression, should be equally instantly matched with engine torque delivery and rotation build in a nice linear fashion
Overall, for me, it is essential, along with linearity of direction and feedback from the road surface...
anyway... I accept being in the 1% of strange drivers..but I know clearly the reasons..NA..more rewarding for me...
1 - A sports car should be very sensitive in terms of the accelerator pedal. We should explore the pedal milimeter by milimiter..
2 - Variations in the accelerator depression, should be equally instantly matched with engine torque delivery and rotation build in a nice linear fashion
Overall, for me, it is essential, along with linearity of direction and feedback from the road surface...
anyway... I accept being in the 1% of strange drivers..but I know clearly the reasons..NA..more rewarding for me...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,095
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C63s
Originally Posted by Carlos Ferreira
I tried before the i8 from Bmw and I liked the immediate pedal response and torque. Maybe the hibrid will be better. My most important points, independently of the direction of industry, and in my subjective opinion is that:
1 - A sports car should be very sensitive in terms of the accelerator pedal. We should explore the pedal milimeter by milimiter..
2 - Variations in the accelerator depression, should be equally instantly matched with engine torque delivery and rotation build in a nice linear fashion
Overall, for me, it is essential, along with linearity of direction and feedback from the road surface...
anyway... I accept being in the 1% of strange drivers..but I know clearly the reasons..NA..more rewarding for me...
1 - A sports car should be very sensitive in terms of the accelerator pedal. We should explore the pedal milimeter by milimiter..
2 - Variations in the accelerator depression, should be equally instantly matched with engine torque delivery and rotation build in a nice linear fashion
Overall, for me, it is essential, along with linearity of direction and feedback from the road surface...
anyway... I accept being in the 1% of strange drivers..but I know clearly the reasons..NA..more rewarding for me...
