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Cooling Solutions for your C63, by Dime Racing

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Old 10-26-2016, 03:30 PM   #1
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Cooling Solutions for your C63, by Dime Racing

With the new release of the Dime Racing AMG GT, C63 owners also gain the benefit of having the choice to run many of the same parts. The M177 equipped C63 has many striking similarities to the M178 equipped AMG GT, and we have designed many of our Dime Racing parts to fit both vehicles.

One major concern we always see when testing the C63 is rising intake air temperatures during acceleration. Temperatures rise far beyond ambient temperatures creating very inconsistent power levels.

To make matters worse, the factory design of the cooling system interconnects the cooling system for the intercoolers and the cooling system of the transmission. As transmission temperatures start to increase, so do your intake air temperatures. We have fixed this problem.










We have effectively tripled the cooling capacity by means of a high density heat exchanger that is double the thickness of that from the factory. We have also separated or divorced the intercooler circuit from the transmission cooling circuit. Intake air temperatures are no longer affected by transmission temperatures, and you feel consistent results weather on the street or track.

Please feel free to contact us for further information and pricing and please be sure to check us out at http://dimeracing.com/. Thank you all.

DIME RACING
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Old 10-26-2016, 05:11 PM   #2
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Very cool. Divorcing the system in my s4 made a huge difference. This car suffered big time with heat soak last time I went out to track. Definitely on list for spring mods. Can you PM a price
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:39 PM   #3
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Is it 100% working now? What's the install time...? Any hiccups with the first install?
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:51 PM   #4
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Curious to see some data logs and IAT's with this setup on repeated runs vs. stock. Looks like a nice piece.
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Old 10-26-2016, 09:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty
Is it 100% working now? What's the install time...? Any hiccups with the first install?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimeracing
With the new release of the Dime Racing AMG GT, C63 owners also gain the benefit of having the choice to run many of the same parts. The M177 equipped C63 has many striking similarities to the M178 equipped AMG GT, and we have designed many of our Dime Racing parts to fit both vehicles.

One major concern we always see when testing the C63 is rising intake air temperatures during acceleration. Temperatures rise far beyond ambient temperatures creating very inconsistent power levels.

To make matters worse, the factory design of the cooling system interconnects the cooling system for the intercoolers and the cooling system of the transmission. As transmission temperatures start to increase, so do your intake air temperatures. We have fixed this problem.










We have effectively tripled the cooling capacity by means of a high density heat exchanger that is double the thickness of that from the factory. We have also separated or divorced the intercooler circuit from the transmission cooling circuit. Intake air temperatures are no longer affected by transmission temperatures, and you feel consistent results weather on the street or track.

Please feel free to contact us for further information and pricing and please be sure to check us out at http://dimeracing.com/. Thank you all.

DIME RACING
Can you PM price for C63S Coupe?
Does the divorced system present any problem related to possible leaks in one system and an undetected overheat????
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Old 10-27-2016, 05:17 PM   #6
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Thank you for your interest. Both the intercooler system and transmission cooling system maintain all sensors and needed items to detect and type of issue. We do not remove or modify these systems.

The transmission cooling circuit also has a thermostat that is maintained. This is in place from the factory to bring the transmission fluid temperatures to operating temps as quick as possible. Removing this would lose the OEM drivability of the car.

We hope this helps. Thanks again.

DIME RACING
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Old 10-27-2016, 05:23 PM   #7
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Are you located in OC? How much for the cooling package?

Gracias
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Old 10-27-2016, 06:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dimeracing View Post
Thank you for your interest. Both the intercooler system and transmission cooling system maintain all sensors and needed items to detect and type of issue. We do not remove or modify these systems.

The transmission cooling circuit also has a thermostat that is maintained. This is in place from the factory to bring the transmission fluid temperatures to operating temps as quick as possible. Removing this would lose the OEM drivability of the car.

We hope this helps. Thanks again.

DIME RACING
Is there then still a temp sensor for the cooling system that remains on the intercooler circuit? So, you are saying there are TWO temp sensors that remain active in your divorced system? Have you confirmed this in testing that your system reports accurate data and can, in effect, detect if there's a leak in your system by noticing an overheat condition? Further, where is the pump in your system and have you tested the efficiency under extremes - as your intercooler is much larger, have you determined there is no need for an external, electric or piggyback pump of any kind?

I appreciate what looks like a very nice system in some aspects, but if you've added capacity and a larger intercooler, I am concerned about what could be construed as some very obvious drawbacks and weaknesses that aren't covered in your launch detail...

Don't want to be a naysayer, but I figure we get this covered and you can respond to this so we have the data and folks make informed decisions.

I've been through this in another vendor's forum with a similar system that addressed all of these issues to an amazing level....

Thanks!
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:10 PM   #9
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Is there any data that shows intake Temps before and after? Also any dyno pulls that display heat soak and post system install effects?
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Old 10-30-2016, 02:00 PM   #10
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What kind of customer service is this?

I sent a PM a couple of days ago, no response was received.

auditoamg asked very pertinent questions but he got ignored.

That says a whole lot about this company. I would rather wait for Weistec's cooling package or go with the Eurocharged one for less than a $1000.
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Old 10-30-2016, 02:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Michelle Leroy View Post
What kind of customer service is this?

I sent a PM a couple of days ago, no response was received.

auditoamg asked very pertinent questions but he got ignored.

That says a whole lot about this company. I would rather wait for Weistec's cooling package or go with the Eurocharged one for less than a $1000.
We apologize for that. We reply to messages right away. We must have made an error sending it. You can also reach us anytime via email. Again we apologize for that.

DIME RACING

Last edited by dimeracing; 10-30-2016 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 10-30-2016, 05:37 PM   #12
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We apologize for that. We reply to messages right away. We must have made an error sending it. You can also reach us anytime via email. Again we apologize for that.

DIME RACING
Seriously?

Still no PM and still no answers to these questions:

Quote:
"Is there then still a temp sensor for the cooling system that remains on the intercooler circuit? So, you are saying there are TWO temp sensors that remain active in your divorced system? Have you confirmed this in testing that your system reports accurate data and can, in effect, detect if there's a leak in your system by noticing an overheat condition? Further, where is the pump in your system and have you tested the efficiency under extremes - as your intercooler is much larger, have you determined there is no need for an external, electric or piggyback pump of any kind?"
Keep dodging...
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Old 10-30-2016, 05:40 PM   #13
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Seriously?

Still no PM and still no answers to these questions:



Keep dodging...
Yes, how about you show us a drawing of your system, indicate all the different flow streams and all the sensors, please.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:40 PM   #14
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This is the stock cooling system schematic. There is a very small transmission heat exchanger that is cooled via the intercooler system coolant. The separation of the system happens at that section.



We remove the small transmission heat exchanger, and add a large oil to air cooler in front of the car. Please see our schematic below.




There is no fluid level sensor in the intercooler coolant system. The system is constantly monitored via intake air temperature sensors (one sensor in each bank). This is also the case with the transmission. Fluid is filling via the oil pan and temps are monitored via the TCU, internally. There is no fluid level sensor on the transmission as well.

Please let us know if this answers your question a bit more. Thanks again.

DIME RACING
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimeracing
This is the stock cooling system schematic. There is a very small transmission heat exchanger that is cooled via the intercooler system coolant. The separation of the system happens at that section.



We remove the small transmission heat exchanger, and add a large oil to air cooler in front of the car. Please see our schematic below.




There is no fluid level sensor in the intercooler coolant system. The system is constantly monitored via intake air temperature sensors (one sensor in each bank). This is also the case with the transmission. Fluid is filling via the oil pan and temps are monitored via the TCU, internally. There is no fluid level sensor on the transmission as well.

Please let us know if this answers your question a bit more. Thanks again.

DIME RACING
I appreciate this, and it does help... But let's clarify a few things.

1) This isn't a true divorced system. You aren't separating our two systems that were normally coupled together in the sense that they are now completely different flow paths. Your original statement was extremely misleading unless I've missed something. You've just shortened the turbo intercooler path so it's not also cooling transmission oil.
2) Your explanation leads us to believe there is actually no OEM coolant temp sensor anywhere in that vehicle. If this was the case, our main dashboard cluster display would be only an IAT gauge, which is false... So where is the OEM coolant temp sensor located?
3) you've added an oil to air cooler for the transmission, but what's driving/pumping the oil through this new, larger system, or is the new exchanger not placing more load on the existing system?

Can you provide that data to prove no additional load on the systems?. As you haven't added any additional pumping too a system that claims larger capacity, the system should see increased load. We don't want increased failure rates of critical systems in a mod designed to reduce such an issue from heat.

Thx.

Last edited by auditoamg; 10-30-2016 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:41 PM   #16
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Let me explain why I'm being so critical: This mod is extremely expensive. I haven't seen the rationale behind the pricing. There are no boost pumps in the design, there is no data to back up the claims, etc. My posts are merely attempts to help. I purchased a similar system for another platform that had all of this and it was less than half the price with phenomenal engineering.

There are a few other vendors with solutions for this platform that are even less than that, factoring in a boost pump, without the transmission oil solution. Not apples to apples, but still...

So help us out.

The quality isn't necessarily in question... Yet.
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:42 PM   #17
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We have separated what a single flow path (meaning the same coolant fluid) was cooling both the transmission heat exchanger, and the intercooler systems. To rephrase this, the OEM setup has the same fluid cooling your intercoolers is also cooling your transmission fluid.

Your C63 has a few systems. One of these is the engine cooling system, and another completely separate system is the turbocharger cooling system. These systems however have no relation to each other. The engine cooling system does have a temperature sensor, and this reading is displayed on your dash board. The Intercooler cooling system does not have a fluid temperature sensor. It only measures the temperature of the air that it is cooling.

Intake air temperatures are not displayed on the dash board. If you were to purchase a data logging tool, you can most likely view Bank 1 and Bank 2 IAT's via the OBD data logging tool.

We would be happy to send you more literature and discuss more in detail if you would like. Just give us a call or email any time. Thanks again!

DIME RACING
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auditoamg View Post
Let me explain why I'm being so critical: This mod is extremely expensive. I haven't seen the rationale behind the pricing. There are no boost pumps in the design, there is no data to back up the claims, etc. My posts are merely attempts to help. I purchased a similar system for another platform that had all of this and it was less than half the price with phenomenal engineering.

There are a few other vendors with solutions for this platform that are even less than that, factoring in a boost pump, without the transmission oil solution. Not apples to apples, but still...

So help us out.

The quality isn't necessarily in question... Yet.
We truly appreciate your questions. It is great for the community to better understand how these vehicles are engineered and what the downfalls are.

This system is priced at this point because we have implemented some of the most efficient radiator core designs, billet aluminum end tank construction, OEM fitment, and far more components than any other system out there.

The result is 100% plug and play. No hose clamps or zip ties needed because we took the time to design quality components that we trust on the race track.

We will be posting third party unbiased results shortly. Thanks again!

DIME RACING
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimeracing
We have separated what a single flow path (meaning the same coolant fluid) was cooling both the transmission heat exchanger, and the intercooler systems. To rephrase this, the OEM setup has the same fluid cooling your intercoolers is also cooling your transmission fluid.

Your C63 has a few systems. One of these is the engine cooling system, and another completely separate system is the turbocharger cooling system. These systems however have no relation to each other. The engine cooling system does have a temperature sensor, and this reading is displayed on your dash board. The Intercooler cooling system does not have a fluid temperature sensor. It only measures the temperature of the air that it is cooling.

Intake air temperatures are not displayed on the dash board. If you were to purchase a data logging tool, you can most likely view Bank 1 and Bank 2 IAT's via the OBD data logging tool.

We would be happy to send you more literature and discuss more in detail if you would like. Just give us a call or email any time. Thanks again!

DIME RACING
Ok, I understand, what you've provided didn't include the engine... However, again, you shortened, rather than divorced. A true divorced system would mean you created a completely new flow path that didn't exist before (2 from one) wherein the original path was completely isolated. If the secondary (e.g., new path) had an issue, the vehicle systems would be unable to detect it.

But my questions remain:

The new exchangers are larger, so do they place additional load on the existing pumps that might result in reduced efficiencies and a failure? That includes the air/oil exchanger. Do you have testing and data to show this?. What justifies this very high price without any boost pumps to increase capacity?
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:04 PM   #20
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Ok, I understand, what you've provided didn't include the engine... However, again, you shortened, rather than divorced. A true divorced system would mean you created a completely new flow path that didn't exist before (2 from one) wherein the original path was completely isolated. If the secondary (e.g., new path) had an issue, the vehicle systems would be unable to detect it.

But my questions remain:

The new exchangers are larger, so do they place additional load on the existing pumps that might result in reduced efficiencies and a failure? That includes the air/oil exchanger. Do you have testing and data to show this?. What justifies this very high price without any boost pumps to increase capacity?
We would be happy to explain more in detail via phone conversation if you would like.

The two intercooler circulation pumps are pulse width modulated and very efficient from the factory. These can actually be adjusted via tuning to increase or decrease flow based on many variables.

The transmission cooling since it is own separate system now, uses the transmission fluid pump as it source of flow. The same exact way it is done on the C63 Black Series as an example.

Thanks again.

DIME RACING
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:17 PM   #21
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This model year doesn't have a black series... Yet. Is this the same transmission pump between the two model years so you know it can handle the beating?

I'm not interested in tuning the car to increase the flow of the pumps. I live in a hot climate, so my interest is simply to keep IAT and engine temps down... Because on this new hot-insideV design, the turbo heat will soak the engine and vice versa.

We need data, period.

Thx.
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:57 PM   #22
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I'll let you do it to my car at cost... and report back LOL. Not paying 4 grand for it. Stupid.
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Old 10-31-2016, 03:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimeracing View Post


Intake air temperatures are not displayed on the dash board. If you were to purchase a data logging tool, you can most likely view Bank 1 and Bank 2 IAT's via the OBD data logging tool.


DIME RACING
So you have no data that shows the differences before the install and after? No dyno showing pulls or intake Temps before and after?

Also, I should buy a data logging tool to see the temp differences....
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Old 10-31-2016, 09:43 PM   #24
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Some strong sock puppet trolling going on in this thread.

NOTE: Auditoamg has some very valid points. Above comment towards the 3 post wonder.

Last edited by vaelin; 10-31-2016 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 10-31-2016, 10:03 PM   #25
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So I am a sock puppet because a product that is 4000 dollars minus install is being promoted yet the company can't show anything to back up any of their claims. When asked if they had any available data to back up their claims or justify the purchase, I am essentially told to test them myself.
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